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| |-+  International General Discussion (Moderators: Peter, afleitch)
| | |-+  Assange seeks asylum in Ecuador
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Author Topic: Assange seeks asylum in Ecuador  (Read 8799 times)
Judšischen Volksfront
exnaderite
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« Reply #100 on: August 20, 2012, 02:47:58 pm »
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You really are a bunch of disgusting people.

EternalCynic, what makes a sex crime a so-called crime in your book? Please elaborate.

The first Swedish prosecutor who considered the charge withdrew it, claiming it had no chance of success.

Only after the US cables started emerging did a previously dismissed accusation magically reappear. The most recent documents do indicate that the US is trying to get Assange to face trial over something that he, as a non-US citizen, can't be tried for. The fact that Sweden is zealously pursuing Assange when a Serb accused of murder in Sweden isn't being pursued as zealously (you know, since murder is more important than consensual sex without a condom) makes any notion that there's a black hand behind this, credible. Assange has repeatedly stated he's happy to go to Sweden if Sweden can guarantee he won't be extradited to any third country.

And besides, suave authoritarian regimes don't accuse their dissidents of treason or subverting the state. They accuse them of tax evasion, rape, bylaw infringement, and so on. The real disgusting people are those who try to manipulate the public's concern for women in order to attain a sinister goal, not those who call their BS.
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Nathan
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« Reply #101 on: August 20, 2012, 03:39:20 pm »
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Again, I still think than given there is no legal procedures against him in Sweden and than the investigators only want to talk to him, the best idea is to the Sweden investigators to go in London.
That would alleviate the concerns of everyone there.

This is incorrect. He's wanted so he can be indicted for rape.
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« Reply #102 on: August 20, 2012, 04:52:22 pm »
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also the Swedish prosecutor has refused to interview him in the UK or in the Ecuadorian embassy despite having done so in previous cases.
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« Reply #103 on: August 20, 2012, 05:43:32 pm »
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Again, I still think than given there is no legal procedures against him in Sweden and than the investigators only want to talk to him, the best idea is to the Sweden investigators to go in London.
That would alleviate the concerns of everyone there.

This is incorrect. He's wanted so he can be indicted for rape.

Well, why don't indict him right now? They don't need him on the national territory to indict him.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #104 on: August 20, 2012, 06:30:20 pm »
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You really are a bunch of disgusting people.  

Moderators are allowed to say such things?

It's a moral imperative to speak out against certain things even if there is a punishment connected to it. Like, I'm fighting the system, dude. Totally.

Report it if you want.

and I have a similar moral imperative not to report posts, as to limit the power held by people like you -- unless for theatre or jest.

Well I reported it.

I thought you no longer reported anybody because you'd decided to turn the other cheek like JC?
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Passing Through a Screen Door
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« Reply #105 on: August 20, 2012, 07:30:52 pm »
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You really are a bunch of disgusting people.  

Moderators are allowed to say such things?

It's a moral imperative to speak out against certain things even if there is a punishment connected to it. Like, I'm fighting the system, dude. Totally.

Report it if you want.

and I have a similar moral imperative not to report posts, as to limit the power held by people like you -- unless for theatre or jest.

Well I reported it.

I thought you no longer reported anybody because you'd decided to turn the other cheek like JC?

Yeah but like all flawed humans I have relapses.

Quote from: Romans 3:23
for all have sinned  and fall short of the glory of God
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« Reply #106 on: August 20, 2012, 09:36:07 pm »
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Again, I still think than given there is no legal procedures against him in Sweden and than the investigators only want to talk to him, the best idea is to the Sweden investigators to go in London.
That would alleviate the concerns of everyone there.

This is incorrect. He's wanted so he can be indicted for rape.

Well, why don't indict him right now? They don't need him on the national territory to indict him.

They need him on national territory to arrest him. They can't have an indictment hearing/arraignment/whatever they're calling it in Sweden without arresting him. Why the British didn't have the authority to pack him back off to Sweden I have no idea.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #107 on: August 20, 2012, 10:00:28 pm »
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Again, I still think than given there is no legal procedures against him in Sweden and than the investigators only want to talk to him, the best idea is to the Sweden investigators to go in London.
That would alleviate the concerns of everyone there.

This is incorrect. He's wanted so he can be indicted for rape.

Well, why don't indict him right now? They don't need him on the national territory to indict him.

They need him on national territory to arrest him. They can't have an indictment hearing/arraignment/whatever they're calling it in Sweden without arresting him. Why the British didn't have the authority to pack him back off to Sweden I have no idea.

They had the authority of extrading him, but, he had the right to contest the extradition in front of courts, to delay it.
And, now, he is in an embassy, and entering it would violate international conventions and cause a diplomatic incident.
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Nathan
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« Reply #108 on: August 20, 2012, 10:10:21 pm »
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Again, I still think than given there is no legal procedures against him in Sweden and than the investigators only want to talk to him, the best idea is to the Sweden investigators to go in London.
That would alleviate the concerns of everyone there.

This is incorrect. He's wanted so he can be indicted for rape.

Well, why don't indict him right now? They don't need him on the national territory to indict him.

They need him on national territory to arrest him. They can't have an indictment hearing/arraignment/whatever they're calling it in Sweden without arresting him. Why the British didn't have the authority to pack him back off to Sweden I have no idea.

They had the authority of extrading him, but, he had the right to contest the extradition in front of courts, to delay it.
And, now, he is in an embassy, and entering it would violate international conventions and cause a diplomatic incident.

Well that explains the 'how', certainly.
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« Reply #109 on: August 20, 2012, 10:56:07 pm »
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You really are a bunch of disgusting people. 

Moderators are allowed to say such things?

It's a moral imperative to speak out against certain things even if there is a punishment connected to it. Like, I'm fighting the system, dude. Totally.

Report it if you want.

I feel the same way about neo-Confederates.
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Nathan
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« Reply #110 on: August 20, 2012, 11:10:28 pm »
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I don't usually agree with Gustaf, but when I do, it's on issues like this. Quite a few of us here are acting like craven idiots.
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #111 on: August 21, 2012, 02:24:21 am »
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I feel like a weird, self-contradictory pansy, when I say that I agree with both Eternal Cynic and Gustaf/Al/Nathan. Rape is completely awful and it shouldn't be trivialized and misogyny is completely gross around here; yet it's also fairly obvious he's being pursued so stringently for clearly political reasons and that it simply pisses some people off when nations the West doesn't like do things the West constantly do.

So there, I posted to say that I agree with everybody except Tweed and Opebo. That contributes nothing and yet I wanted to post it anyway.
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« Reply #112 on: August 21, 2012, 02:34:40 am »
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Oh, I very strongly want somebody who is less of a sleazebag to take up Assange's mantle and keep on keeping on! It's him specifically where lieth the rot in this case.
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London Man
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« Reply #113 on: August 21, 2012, 04:40:52 am »
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They had the authority of extrading him, but, he had the right to contest the extradition in front of courts, to delay it.
And, now, he is in an embassy, and entering it would violate international conventions and cause a diplomatic incident.

He'd been appealing the extradition and the British Supreme Court turned down his appeal. They gave him a two-week grace period to get his affairs in order or make an appeal to the European Court of Human Rights (IIRC), while he was still on bail.

He jumped that bail and went into the Embassy.
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #114 on: August 21, 2012, 07:35:31 am »
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Kind of amusing to see several of the legal myths thrown around by Assange's defence team repeated here immediately after I posted a piece that, basically, tears them to shreds.

Here it is again, for anyone that's interested.
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« Reply #115 on: August 21, 2012, 07:37:52 am »
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More delightful behavior.
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« Reply #116 on: August 21, 2012, 07:48:32 am »
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Also of note, the latest YouGov poll included a couple of Assange related questions. Perhaps unsurprisingly, a large gender gap can be observed.
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« Reply #117 on: August 21, 2012, 08:04:59 am »
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Not at all surprised that such Lib Dem partisans as remain in Britain would take a certain tack on this issue.
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« Reply #118 on: August 21, 2012, 10:06:10 am »
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Also of note, the latest YouGov poll included a couple of Assange related questions. Perhaps unsurprisingly, a large gender gap can be observed.

They can't see the bigger issue, apparently.  Or perhaps they just don't like him because he is weedy-looking

I agree with everybody except Tweed and Opebo.

Moderate hero.
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« Reply #119 on: August 21, 2012, 05:22:21 pm »
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Also of note, the latest YouGov poll included a couple of Assange related questions. Perhaps unsurprisingly, a large gender gap can be observed.

They can't see the bigger issue, apparently.  Or perhaps they just don't like him because he is weedy-looking

Or perhaps to them rape charges are a bigger issue than the putative wellbeing of one particular individual who has delusions of grandeur about his having pissed off the US government.
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Insula Dei
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« Reply #120 on: August 21, 2012, 05:29:46 pm »
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Well Julian Assange doesn't imagine the US government doesn't really like him, you know, hardly anything delusional about that.
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« Reply #121 on: August 21, 2012, 05:36:04 pm »
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Well Julian Assange doesn't imagine the US government doesn't really like him, you know, hardly anything delusional about that.
There is however plenty of delusion in the idea that he would face the death penalty if he were to be extradited to the US.
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« Reply #122 on: August 21, 2012, 05:39:20 pm »
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Or perhaps to them rape charges are a bigger issue than the putative wellbeing of one particular individual who has delusions of grandeur about his having pissed off the US government.

Yeah, as I said, different priorities.  They, like you, can't see the bigger picture.

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Nathan
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« Reply #123 on: August 21, 2012, 05:42:23 pm »
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Or perhaps to them rape charges are a bigger issue than the putative wellbeing of one particular individual who has delusions of grandeur about his having pissed off the US government.

Yeah, as I said, different priorities.  They, like you, can't see the bigger picture.

The bigger picture is the fact that we've got people supporting a sleazy sex addict's attempts to flee Swedish justice, of all justices, because they like (their perceptions of) his political beliefs.

Well Julian Assange doesn't imagine the US government doesn't really like him, you know, hardly anything delusional about that.

I would submit that he imagines that they care as exceedingly much about him as he does.
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« Reply #124 on: August 21, 2012, 06:00:33 pm »
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Well Julian Assange doesn't imagine the US government doesn't really like him, you know, hardly anything delusional about that.
There is however plenty of delusion in the idea that he would face the death penalty if he were to be extradited to the US.
And even more of a delusion in the idea that he'll end up in Guantanamo.
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