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| | |-+  Assange seeks asylum in Ecuador
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Author Topic: Assange seeks asylum in Ecuador  (Read 10116 times)
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benconstine
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« Reply #75 on: August 20, 2012, 12:50:00 am »
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Yes, I have.  Ecuador cannot hide behind international agreements in order to shelter a criminal wanted for serious crimes in multiple countries.
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« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2012, 02:08:26 am »
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http://onion.com/NG1yZh
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« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2012, 02:25:32 am »
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Yes, I have.  Ecuador cannot hide behind international agreements in order to shelter a criminal wanted for serious crimes in multiple countries.

But can the US and Britain hide behind similar agreements in order to shelter those accused of treason and subverting the state in countries like, say, Russia, Iran, China, etc?

This is so reminiscent of doublethink, where people are both aware of a lie yet also believe it because it's in the state's interest.

No, the West (TM) cannot with a straight face claim the right to shelter dissidents in the embassies in Russia, China, Iran, or X-istan, and then claim their sovereignty is violated when someone who hasn't even been charged with anything runs into an embassy of a country whose government they don't really like. This is not the 19th century where Britain and the US can openly trample on international laws to fit their selfish interests. The West is no longer dominant.

Get used to it.
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« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2012, 02:37:42 am »
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Yes, I have.  Ecuador cannot hide behind international agreements in order to shelter a criminal wanted for serious crimes in multiple countries.

But can the US and Britain hide behind similar agreements in order to shelter those accused of treason and subverting the state in countries like, say, Russia, Iran, China, etc?

This is so reminiscent of doublethink, where people are both aware of a lie yet also believe it because it's in the state's interest.

No, the West (TM) cannot with a straight face claim the right to shelter dissidents in the embassies in Russia, China, Iran, or X-istan, and then claim their sovereignty is violated when someone who hasn't even been charged with anything runs into an embassy of a country whose government they don't really like. This is not the 19th century where Britain and the US can openly trample on international laws to fit their selfish interests. The West is no longer dominant.

Get used to it.

Herp because locking people up for subverting the government is okay in a liberal democracy.
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Nathan
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« Reply #79 on: August 20, 2012, 02:50:46 am »
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Yes, I have.  Ecuador cannot hide behind international agreements in order to shelter a criminal wanted for serious crimes in multiple countries.

But can the US and Britain hide behind similar agreements in order to shelter those accused of treason and subverting the state in countries like, say, Russia, Iran, China, etc?

This is so reminiscent of doublethink, where people are both aware of a lie yet also believe it because it's in the state's interest.

No, the West (TM) cannot with a straight face claim the right to shelter dissidents in the embassies in Russia, China, Iran, or X-istan, and then claim their sovereignty is violated when someone who hasn't even been charged with anything runs into an embassy of a country whose government they don't really like. This is not the 19th century where Britain and the US can openly trample on international laws to fit their selfish interests. The West is no longer dominant.

Get used to it.

Herp because locking people up for subverting the government is okay in a liberal democracy.

If he was right to be so ungodly afraid of extradition to the United States, why on Earth weren't extradition proceedings going on while he was in Britain?
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« Reply #80 on: August 20, 2012, 02:58:42 am »
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What's bizarre about the way so many patriots left and right call for Manning and Assange's heads on a platter, is that the founders of the United States were eligible for the same sorts of things, as were the leaders of the Libyan revolution, and the participants in the various Latin American revolutions against the Spanish, and the French Revolution.

"Treason" in all these cases is nothing more than a tool by the government to defend it's own interests, and take advantage of those who follow said government.  And in every historical case, the ancien regime's cries of treason and sedition are now seen as reactionary bull[Inks] -- as will the modern-day calls for Manning and Assange to be executed, or thrown in prison for life.  Assuming of course that America becomes enlightened.
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Nathan
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« Reply #81 on: August 20, 2012, 03:13:49 am »
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Assange hasn't been charged with any political crimes.
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« Reply #82 on: August 20, 2012, 03:17:58 am »
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Assange hasn't been charged with any political crimes.

I know, but there's plenty of people who want him to be charged with such "crimes."
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« Reply #83 on: August 20, 2012, 05:25:09 am »
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so-called "sex crimes" in Sweden

At the very least, and no matter what people think about the Wikileaks project, Assange in general or how this whole farrago has been handled, can people please desist from trivialising rape in this manner? I realise that this forum (being, as it is, part of the internet) has an extremely strong misogynistic undercurrent and that, as such, this post is a waste of time, but all the same it isn't actually hard to avoid being an absolute [inks] on the subject.
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« Reply #84 on: August 20, 2012, 05:28:54 am »
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Assange hasn't been charged with any political crimes.

I know, but there's plenty of people who want him to be charged with such "crimes."

And if he genuinely had to be all that worried about extradition he would have been extradited straight from Britain as it is.
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« Reply #85 on: August 20, 2012, 05:30:49 am »
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I mean, you're all quick enough to denounce a Republican candidate for Senate whenever one of them does it (it seems to happen at least once every election), so you must understand on some level that it's wrong, right? It isn't even necessary to make most of the points made on this thread and others like it...
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« Reply #86 on: August 20, 2012, 06:45:28 am »
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The most extreme case I know of was a Catholic priest in Hungary who spoke out against communism during the Cold War, and then ended up hiding out in the US embassy for 15 years(!).

Perfect example, and thank you for educating me.

At the very least, and no matter what people think about the Wikileaks project, Assange in general or how this whole farrago has been handled, can people please desist from trivialising rape in this manner? I realise that this forum (being, as it is, part of the internet) has an extremely strong misogynistic undercurrent and that, as such, this post is a waste of time, but all the same it isn't actually hard to avoid being an absolute [inks] on the subject.

Of course it isn't my place to do so (anymore), but can we agree that what is for you 'trivializing' an issue may be simply a matter of real political disagreement for others?  After all we could throw out the word 'trivializing' about any issue with which we disagreed with others in order to dismiss their position as inappropriate or disallowed.
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Gustaf
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« Reply #87 on: August 20, 2012, 06:47:45 am »
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it's great to see that for the first time since the fall of the USSR we have a functioning counter-power bloc in world geopolitics, no matter how weak or flimsy it may be.  viva Castro, viva Chavez, viva Correa, viva Morales.

Yup, exactly. And the fact that they so viscerally anger the usual suspects means they must be doing something right.

You really are a bunch of disgusting people.

EternalCynic, what makes a sex crime a so-called crime in your book? Please elaborate.
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« Reply #88 on: August 20, 2012, 07:22:00 am »
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The most extreme case I know of was a Catholic priest in Hungary who spoke out against communism during the Cold War, and then ended up hiding out in the US embassy for 15 years(!).

Perfect example, and thank you for educating me.

Cardinal Mindszenty was an interesting guy. Definitely a more worthy cause than that of our present coward, who entirely incidentally I just found out has apparently seen fit to trademark his name at some point.

At the very least, and no matter what people think about the Wikileaks project, Assange in general or how this whole farrago has been handled, can people please desist from trivialising rape in this manner? I realise that this forum (being, as it is, part of the internet) has an extremely strong misogynistic undercurrent and that, as such, this post is a waste of time, but all the same it isn't actually hard to avoid being an absolute [inks] on the subject.

Of course it isn't my place to do so (anymore), but can we agree that what is for you 'trivializing' an issue may be simply a matter of real political disagreement for others?  After all we could throw out the word 'trivializing' about any issue with which we disagreed with others in order to dismiss their position as inappropriate or disallowed.

It's my strongly held political, religious, moral, and personal belief that whether or not rape is to be taken seriously and held in severe disapprobation is not a question that should be opened (or reopened) for political discussion.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 08:01:14 am by Nathan »Logged

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His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
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« Reply #89 on: August 20, 2012, 10:59:07 am »
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Cardinal Mindszenty was an interesting guy. Definitely a more worthy cause than that of our present coward

I consider it just the opposite - Mindszenty was a very dubious character.  However, just because I dislike everything he stands for doesn't mean I can't admit that he is a heroic chap.  Why can't you admit the same here.
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London Man
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« Reply #90 on: August 20, 2012, 11:03:22 am »
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Today's the day for ignorant and offensive comments on rape.
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« Reply #91 on: August 20, 2012, 11:06:26 am »
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An article over at the Staggers looking at some of the myths that have sprung up around the legal aspect of things.

Interesting piece about the divisions within the Occupy movement over the farrago.
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« Reply #92 on: August 20, 2012, 11:32:55 am »
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You really are a bunch of disgusting people. 

Moderators are allowed to say such things?
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« Reply #93 on: August 20, 2012, 11:40:47 am »
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You really are a bunch of disgusting people. 

Moderators are allowed to say such things?

It's a moral imperative to speak out against certain things even if there is a punishment connected to it. Like, I'm fighting the system, dude. Totally.

Report it if you want.
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Grumps
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« Reply #94 on: August 20, 2012, 11:45:04 am »
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You really are a bunch of disgusting people. 

Moderators are allowed to say such things?

It's a moral imperative to speak out against certain things even if there is a punishment connected to it. Like, I'm fighting the system, dude. Totally.

Report it if you want.

Your comments are appropriate in my view, though I disagree with them.....and it's hardly a person attack on one person.  I'm a huge fan of calling those constantly report posts pussies, and I stand by it Smiley
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« Reply #95 on: August 20, 2012, 11:59:35 am »
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You really are a bunch of disgusting people.  

Moderators are allowed to say such things?

It's a moral imperative to speak out against certain things even if there is a punishment connected to it. Like, I'm fighting the system, dude. Totally.

Report it if you want.

and I have a similar moral imperative not to report posts, as to limit the power held by people like you -- unless for theatre or jest.
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« Reply #96 on: August 20, 2012, 01:27:09 pm »
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Well the real point is that everyone else is inhibited from saying such things - thus the two-tier speech here.  You have odd conversations where one person is telling everyone they disgust him or that they're an idiot, and on the other side poor b******s who can't say a darn thing they think (such as moi).
« Last Edit: August 20, 2012, 01:38:08 pm by opebo »Logged

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Gustaf
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« Reply #97 on: August 20, 2012, 02:07:25 pm »
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What I said is backed by analysis and reflects my disagreement with that type of person. Insults hurled at people who are racists, etc is quite commonplace here.
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« Reply #98 on: August 20, 2012, 02:22:46 pm »
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Again, I still think than given there is no legal procedures against him in Sweden and than the investigators only want to talk to him, the best idea is to the Sweden investigators to go in London.
That would alleviate the concerns of everyone there.
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« Reply #99 on: August 20, 2012, 02:24:44 pm »
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You really are a bunch of disgusting people.  

Moderators are allowed to say such things?

It's a moral imperative to speak out against certain things even if there is a punishment connected to it. Like, I'm fighting the system, dude. Totally.

Report it if you want.

and I have a similar moral imperative not to report posts, as to limit the power held by people like you -- unless for theatre or jest.

Well I reported it.
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