Atlasia vs. The Imperial Dominion of the South (user search)
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  Atlasia vs. The Imperial Dominion of the South (search mode)
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Author Topic: Atlasia vs. The Imperial Dominion of the South  (Read 3742 times)
CatoMinor
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,007
United States


« on: June 20, 2012, 12:53:49 PM »

Members of the court and Attorney General, I ask that the case be re-named Atlasia vs. The Imperial Dominion of the South.

Please and thanks Smiley
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CatoMinor
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,007
United States


« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2012, 02:58:53 AM »

*expect the victim's respondent's Brief sometime this evening*
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CatoMinor
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,007
United States


« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2012, 12:00:59 AM »

Friends, Atlasians, Court members, lend me your ears.
I come to defend a law, not to praise it.

For the Honorable Justices, here is the bill in its entirety

The Imperial Dominion of the South is accused of being in violation of the following in the Atlasian Constitution
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This clause makes it clear as day that two freedoms are denied to the regions:
1. The right to create coin or currency
2. The authority to declare said coin or currency as legal tender.

The IDS would like to make it clear, so that there is no doubt whatsoever, that whether we like it or not we recognize that the above is law and we follow the law.

Now lets look at the first of two areas we are alleged to be in violation of. That no region may issue coin or currency. Our region does not issue the "Dibble", a private business mints the gold and silver coins and it is 100% their choice that they do with them. we simply accept it if that is how citizens choose pay us and so that we may get some revenue out of it we allow people to buy dibbles from the IDS at any of the capitol buildings throughout the region. In short, we do not issue the dibbles, we simply sell what we do have (that we did not produce) in the same manner any government would and can sell any property.

The Honorable General Fuzz claims the IDS "ordered the dibble to be created and distributed". As my above argument points out and as our bill clearly states, we ordered nothing to be created and we forced no person to take them.

Now I shall address the second area that we could possibly be in violation of. That no region make make coin or currency legal tender other than the Atlasian Dollar. To be legal tender it must be something that is offered as payment of debt that, and this is key, must be accepted by creditors. Bingo, right there. Must. Be. Accepted. Not one person, not one business, not one entity on Nym90's green Earth is forced by law to accept dibbles as payment for debt or as money. Not even the IDS Government has to accept them, we can still refuse them and demand real Atlasian money. Dibbles may be nice looking and shinny, but they are by no means legal tender.

The Honorable Fuzz's case rests soulfully on his claim that the IDS ordered the dibbles and we distribute them. I have proven that the IDS in fact has never ordered the dibbles, and that our alleged distribution is nothing more than selling government property which is perfectly legal. I have proven the allegations against the IDS are false, and no part of the clause in question has been violated.

I ask that the court find the IDS innocent.
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CatoMinor
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,007
United States


« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2012, 12:01:39 AM »

I now welcome any questions from the Honorable Justices.
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CatoMinor
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,007
United States


« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2012, 11:30:55 AM »

I now welcome any questions from the Honorable Justices.

In Section 2 of the Trojan Act, what is the purpose of stipulating the denominations of the 'Dibble'?
I made that section in parentheses when I wrote the bill because that is explaining what dibbles are not what they have to be.
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CatoMinor
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,007
United States


« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2012, 07:27:59 PM »

The locations are at the capitol buildings because, well, why not? If one had a brand new nice car it would make sense that they would feel safest placing it in their own garage. The exchange rate is whatever gold and silver currently trade for and we go from there. It should not be considered a loss as the value of gold and silver go up and down (mostly up) so when we sell it it can very well be for more than it was worth when we acquired it.

As for the exact effect on our budget I'd need to talk to a few people to find out.
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CatoMinor
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,007
United States


« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2012, 08:40:53 PM »


Although the bill says that the Dibbles are distributed by a private company, they are also exchanged at the capitol buildings in the IDS, which is also a way of distribution.  On terms of creation, the Dibble did not exist until this bill was signed into law.  Therefore, demand for the Dibble must have come from the IDS itself.  

Surely the IDS accepting and selling dibbles affects demand, but that has nothing to do with us allegedly ordering them. Creating an environment in which they grow in demand =/= placing an order.


So, in effect, exchange of the 'Dibble' is a service provided by the IDS government?

Only if you would count a local police auction as a Government Service. Ours sales may be a government action taken on our part, but not really in the same category as paving roads or fighting fires.
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CatoMinor
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,007
United States


« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2012, 12:53:45 AM »

Burden of proof is on the accuser, proof it didn't exist before Tongue

Just because we decided to accept the dibbles from the time the law was passed, that doesn't mean the people who make them didn't produce them on a smaller scale before.
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CatoMinor
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,007
United States


« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2012, 11:47:02 AM »

A quick forum search suggests it didn't, so I'll have to assume it did not unless you have proof otherwise.

That is rather difficult to proof becuase as far as Atlasia is concerned its impossible to prove any business exists. If we go by a standard of something only exists becuase it is mentioned by a GM or in some other part of Atlasia that would mean that millions of business, as far as Atlasia is concerned, would no longer exist. I doubt you will find any mention of Whole Foods Market here, does that mean it does not exist?
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CatoMinor
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,007
United States


« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2012, 04:44:22 PM »

...To be legal tender it must be something that is offered as payment of debt that, and this is key, must be accepted by creditors. Bingo, right there. Must. Be. Accepted. Not one person, not one business, not one entity on Nym90's green Earth is forced by law to accept dibbles as payment for debt or as money. Not even the IDS Government has to accept them, we can still refuse them and demand real Atlasian money.

I would like to know if there are any departments or local divisions of the IDS government which do in fact refuse to accept 'The Dibble' as payment?  If there were this would certainly belie the impression that it is IDS policy to establish 'The Dibble' as a currency. 

The departments and divisions you speak of are non-player ran so in this case you will have to look to region level policy. As the person who wrote the bill I can tell you the intent is that the IDS was to officially begin accepting dibbles, not that we have to them, but the option is there. If any municipalities or what have you decided they do not accept dibbles then we would have no issue with that, the choice is theirs.
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CatoMinor
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,007
United States


« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2012, 06:51:17 PM »

If it is not illegal to accept "chessnuts" as payment, why should it be illegal to accept the privately produced Dibble?

Well we're making the case that it isn't privately produced.  Wink

Then I guess the very definition of the word "private" (in terms of public vs private) is at stake here. Tongue
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CatoMinor
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,007
United States


« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2012, 11:01:27 PM »

Closing statements, written by Jbrase and Al Pacino

        You honors and people of Atlasia, as you are all well aware, I am Jbrase the defense attorney for the IDS. Now that man over there, he is the prosecuting Attorney General, and he couldn't be happier today. He is a happy man today, because today he is going after a Region. And if he gets us, if he gets us he will be a star. He's gonna have his name plastered in this months Law Review, center fold, "Lawyer of the month." Now in order to win this case, he needs you, naturally, the justice. So he is counting on tapping that emotion in you that says "Oh, what did the south do this time?. However these proceedings are not about that. These proceedings are here to ensure that justice is done. Justice is as any reasonable man would tell you, the finding of the truth. What is the truth today?

       One truth, a tragic one, is that our region was held up at gunpoint by agents of the Attorney General. Another truth is that the prosecution hasn't any proof to back its claims. Not one piece of substantiating evidence other than his own allegations. Another truth is, that the IDS has not itself nor any branch of it ever produce, nor order a single Dibble. But lets get back to justice.What is the intention of Justice? The intention of Justice is to see that the guilty are proven guilty and the innocent are set free.  Simple isn't it? Only it is not that simple.

      It is the defense's duty to protect the rights of those accused, as it is the prosecutions duty to uphold and defend the laws of the state. Justice for all. Only we have a problem here.  Know what it is? Both sides want to win. We want to win regardless of the truth, and regardless of justice, regardless of who's guilty or innocent. Winning is everything. That man there wants to win so badly today, means so much to him, he is so carried away with the prospect of winning, the idea of it, that he forgot something. That which is absolutely essential to today's proceedings. He forgot his case. He forgot to bring it. I don't know, I don't see it, do you? The prosecutions case, he's got to have one. No evidence to back up accusations at all, nothing but his own claims.

     The IDS on the other hand, your honors, has presented a case to end all cases. We have the text of the law itself, and to ensure its meanings are not mis-understood, the actual author of the law to explain it. That, your honors and the people of Atlasia, is what this all boils down to. We can back up our claims, the honorable Fuzz cannot.

I ask you now to do what is right, and find the IDS innocent.
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CatoMinor
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 7,007
United States


« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2012, 11:04:09 PM »

Thank you gentlemen, we hope to have a decision ready within the next day.
Your honor, while typing out some closing statements, not once but three times were my text deleted. Once because of the power going out, once because I clicked something by mistake, and finally because of some atlas error. I spent a while trying to get it posted, I ask that you take my closing remarks into your consideration.
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