The European Atrocity You Never Heard About

[tpfkaw]

http://chronicle.com/article/The-European-Atrocity-You/132123/

I'd of course heard about the deportations of Germans, but I was unaware of the sheer scale of the suffering they caused or the level of complicity and support granted to them by the US and UK governments (though unsurprising given Operation Keelhaul).

[Free Palestine]

That two-part documentary on Nazi Germany that was on the History Channel briefly mentioned this near the end.

Unfortunately, this, like the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, seems like one of those things that the mainstream views as having been "necessary."  Crimes against humanity are never necessary.

[Silent Hunter]

Interesting article - thanks for sharing.

It just reminds me that we don't ever want anything like the Second World War to happen again.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Mostly you've never heard about it if because of an understandable reluctance to see Germans as victims within the context of the War, something maybe not helped in this case by the fact that the advocates of these people tend to have somewhat questionable politics. Of course in Germany it was a big, big deal for decades.

[Simfan34]

It certainly was shameful.

[Silent Hunter]

It certainly was shameful.

[Middle-aged Europe]

German left-winger: It's somewhat inappropriate to talk about it, the Holocaust was much worse.

German right-winger (not necessarily just NPD, also the right edge of CDU and CSU): What the Poles did to the Germans after the war was practically as bad what Germans did to Poles during the war. Is there a way to get those territories back?

[GMantis]

German left-winger: It's somewhat inappropriate to talk about it, the Holocaust was much worse.

German right-winger (not necessarily just NPD, also the right edge of CDU and CSU): What the Poles did to the Germans after the war was practically as bad what Germans did to Poles during the war. Is there a way to get those territories back?

Is that really a common position?

[Middle-aged Europe]

Not so common post-1990. It was back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

Nowadays there are some on the right edge of the CDU (Erika Steinbach?) who probably wouldn't mind getting them back, but they don't dare to say it in public.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

I hope that over the next century the plight of the average German during and immediately after WW2 begins to be explored more by mainstream history outlets (even if it is mainly focused on sympathetic proletarians who always hated Hitler). Viewing them as responsible or compliant for Nazi atrocities is misguided but I understand why in many countries where the impacts of the war are still felt this aspect of the war will never be talked about.

[The Mikado]

Tara Zahra's Lost Children is an interesting read that deals a lot with the deportation of Eastern European Germans.  Norman Naimark's Fires of Hatred discusses it briefly, too.  One of the most interesting aspects about the population transfers in post-war Czechoslovakia was that it was handled by Benes' democratic pro-Western government, not the Communist regime that followed it.

Horrible stories like German girls stripped naked in Prague, brought to Wenceslas Square, had their hamstrings cut, and were made to crawl out of the city.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

One of the most interesting aspects about the population transfers in post-war Czechoslovakia was that it was handled by Benes' democratic pro-Western government, not the Communist regime that followed it.

Which sort of belies this 'you never heard about' thing as the Beneš decrees have crept into the news a couple of times over the past two decades.

[ingemann]

I guess if for people who get their knowlegde of history from the history channel, tabloids or other popular history, this may not be especially well known, but honestly if you just have a little culture this is very well known. Of course outside Germany we have really only discussed it the last twenty years, even through people knew about it. 

[RedPrometheus]

The forced migration meant that the war returned to where it started. Had Germany not begun the war in Europe and killed tens of millions this would not have happened.

[Silent Hunter]

The forced migration meant that the war returned to where it started. Had Germany not begun the war in Europe and killed tens of millions this would not have happened.

The thing is, it didn't - Germans were removed from areas that had been in Germany before 1937, while Poles were removed from areas that had been in Poland at that time.

[muon2]

I actually did learn some of this as a student in the 70's. I grew up in the heart of the Cold War, and the history of the formation of the Warsaw Pact was part of the curriculum. Discussion of the size of the Warsaw Pact included a description of the mass relocation to establish the modern borders. Of course the deportations of Germans from Soviet-controlled areas were presented as a Stalinist idea and the Allied role was ignored. All blame to the USSR in good Cold War fashion.

[minionofmidas]

Not so common post-1990. It was back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

West Germany didn't recognize Poland's new borders until 1990.

[GMantis]

Not so common post-1990. It was back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

West Germany didn't recognize Poland's new borders until 1990.

What about the 1970 treaty of Warsaw?

[Insula Dei]

Had a french teacher in high school who was sudeten-german.

[GMantis]

The Germans are guilty to these problems as consequence of colonizing large chunks of Slavic lands in middle ages and onwards. That is the standard Polish point of view I think.

Yes, but if one goes that distantly in the past, it shouldn't be forgotten that most of these lands were inhabited by Germanic tribes before the Slavs arrived. Of course, then it should be remembered that those lands were inhabited by other Indo-Europeans (Celts, Balts and/or Slavs, depending on which theory you accept) before the Germanic tribes arrived. And before the Indo-Europeans arrived, there were other inhabitants whose name we don't even know.
So perhaps it's better not to rely on historical rights in these kinds of arguments. Or some of the non Indo-Europeans in Europe might someday claim Poland with the same arguments

[dead0man]

Well that and many of the Germans were asked to move to Russia by various Czars through the centuries.

[minionofmidas]

Well that and many of the Germans were asked to move to Russia by various Czars through the centuries.

These Czars being, of course, Germans. -_-

Not so common post-1990. It was back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

West Germany didn't recognize Poland's new borders until 1990.

What about the 1970 treaty of Warsaw?

Was not a formal recognition, but sailed very close to one and almost toppled the Brandt government for that reason.
Incidentally, there was a change in the way boundaries were depicted in West German atlases in the early 70s. Til then the 1937 borders - including the existence of Danzig - were shown like ordinary borders, with the de facto borders - both the eastern and the western border of the GDR, and the line through East Prussia - shown as lighter, broken lines. Afterwards, both sets of boundaries were made to look different from borders everywhere else.

[Silent Hunter]

It's worth pointing out what Article 116 of the Basic Law of the Federal Republic of Germany says on this.

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All those who lived in the areas now part of Poland or Russia or descendants of them are eligible for German citizenship. This also meant that all citizens of East Germany were entitled to West Germany citizenship automatically.

[GMantis]

Well that and many of the Germans were asked to move to Russia by various Czars through the centuries.

Yes, but that applies mainly to the Germans settled on the Volga. Those in today's western Poland are much earlier settlers.