France General Discussion II: Living under Marxism

[MaxQue]

In other news, I've been purged from my party. More about this tomorrow if I can get some sleep in the mean time...

What party is that? FG? Do they actually purge people like in the good old days?

FG doesn't have physical members, it's a coalition of parties. People are membre of one of parties (PCF, PG or one of the small ones like Gauche Unitaire).

[Zanas]

Yeah it's Gauche unitaire actually. They unilaterally decided that Gauche unitaire shouldn't participate in the process of creating a new movement within the FG, that was launched this weekend and is named "Ensemble". It gathers Gauche anticapitaliste, les Alternatifs, Fase, Convergences & Alternatives. It's not a fusion as of yet, more of a coalition of parties. The objective is to merge within a year.

Inside Gauche unitaire, we never had a vote on whether we should participate or not. The national council decided that we shouldn't, but a majority of the members would like to, but they won't organize a national vote or congress.

So they decided that all the members that were present at "Ensemble"'s launching this weekend, and all those who had signed the calling to participate in it, are automatically expelled because they are now part of another party, and that's forbidden by the statutes. But no one pays a membership to Ensemble for the moment. It's not a party.

Oh, and they expelled 35 members this way, including 3 members on the 6-member national bureau (so they are left alone there), and something like 8 or 9 members of the 30ish-member national council. And the party already had only around 300 members nationally...

Why, would you now be asking ?

Just in order to get a few spots on PS-PCF lists in a few cities and maybe one or two deputy mayor positions. All that under the assumption that the FG is dead, and the political solution is now to concentrate on working with the PCF, the PS' left-wing and EELV's left-wing in a new hypothetical gauche plurielle against austerity.

That's disgusting. I has a headache all day.

But we're fighting. We are after all roughly a majority of the organization.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Yeah, the far-left/hard-left is well known for its love of internal democracy.

[Zanas]

Yeah, the far-left/hard-left is well known for its love of internal democracy.

Actually it's generally a bit better than inside the PS nowadays... But still it can get pretty ugly at times.

[Hash]

Interesting Ipsos poll focused on the FN, with generally reassuring results.

http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2013/11/26/le-fn-reste-dangereux-pour-la-democratie-pour-une-majorite-de-francais_3520729_823448.html

Brief overview:

• 69% (-4 since 2011, -13 since 2003) say the FN is far right. What's interesting is that the proportion of FN sympathizers who define their party as far-right has dropped from 57% in 2007 to 34% in 2011/2013; this confirms what I noted in the FN's vote in the 2007 and 2012 elections - that the post-Poison Dwarf vote for Panzerdaddy and Panzergirl is a protest ni-ni vote and less ideologically far-right than in 2002 or 1995.
• 59% (+2, -9) say the FN is dangerous for democracy. The heaviest drop has come with UMP sympathizers; those saying the FN was dangerous has fallen 18% since 2003 to 49%. You still have a quarter of FN sympathizers themselves saying the party is dangerous for democracy...
• 53% (-1, +9), nevertheless say the FN is useful. 34% of lefties agree, 67% of UMPers agree (+11 since 2011) agree and almost all (93%) FN voters do too.
• 64% say the FN isn't a credible national alternative, 67% say the FN isn't close to their concerns and only 30% say they have realistic solutions
• The only issue where a plurality say the FN's position is convincing is on maintaining local services (44-43), on all other issues a plurality say their positions are not convincing. The most popular positions for the FN are insecurity (46-48), immigration (42-52), defending rural areas (38-47). The least popular positions are dropping the Euro (21-75), lowering deficits (23-67) and unemployment (28-63). Over 50% of UMP sympathizers feel the FN positions on local services, immigration and insecurity are convincing.
• 62% say they have never voted FN and never will, 22% have already voted FN and 13% haven't voted FN but may do so. So a 35% potential. Actual+potential support is highest with men (40%), ouvriers (57%), farmers/shopkeepers/managers (45%), rural areas (42%), towns with less than 20k people (44%), people without the BAC (43%) and UMP sympathizers (43%). Lowest with women (31%), cadres (20%), greater Parisians (22%), BAC +3 (17%) and PS/FG sympathizers (17%, 12%).
• So 5% of FN sympathizers say they have never voted FN and never will. Small sample, yes, but pretty amusing. I AM MAD AS HELL AND I LOVE PANZERGIRL DEARLY BUT I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR THEM!!!!111
• 72% of the actual+potential FN voters do so/would do so primarily to express dissatisfaction, only 26% to support their ideas. 33% of those who have already voted FN did so to support their ideas. Obviously, 'support for their ideas' decreases with the frequency of FN support (72% who vote FN regularly support their ideas)

[Antonio the Sixth]

Depressing numbers, but no big surprise. France is turning into a reactionary shithole.

[RogueBeaver]

Paul Aussaresses has died.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Paul Aussaresses has died.

Good riddance.

[Hash]

I remember laughing hysterically with some friends in a class this summer when the prof showed us a video with him talking about how torture was so fetch, but I think we laughed mostly because his eye patch was hilarious.

Good riddance at any rate.

[Peter the Lefty]

Flanby had a prostate operation in 2011, turns out.  Awful timing.

[Zanas]

Flanby had a prostate operation in 2011, turns out.  Awful timing.

In reality, nobody cares. In the media world, WWWWWWWHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOAAAAAAAAA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111!1!!!!!111111111111!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hash]

For those who speak French, Le Monde (the only newspaper still employing actual journalists) has some great articles on small towns where the FN is doing well:

http://www.lemonde.fr/municipales/article/2013/12/02/municipales-a-mitry-mory-on-parle-beaucoup-du-fn-en-attendant-le-candidat_3522308_1828682.html
http://www.lemonde.fr/municipales/article/2013/12/03/municipales-a-grassac-l-isolement-d-un-maire-qui-soutient-marine-le-pen_3523834_1828682.html
http://www.lemonde.fr/municipales/article/2013/12/04/municipales-on-n-est-pas-racistes-mais-on-le-devient_3523785_1828682.html
http://www.lemonde.fr/municipales/article/2013/12/05/municipales-en-charente-les-vicissitudes-du-fn-rural_3523783_1828682.html
http://www.lemonde.fr/municipales/article/2013/12/06/municipales-dans-le-doubs-regarder-le-fn-en-face-sans-se-pincer-le-nez_3522312_1828682.html
http://www.lemonde.fr/municipales/article/2013/12/06/la-descente-aux-enfers-d-une-equipe-de-foot_3522313_1828682.html

[Hash]

Not up to the minute breaking news, but France should recognize white votes (vote blanc) - defined as envelopes returned without a ballot - by counting them separately from invalid votes but they won't be taken into account for calculating the 'suffrages exprimés'. It was introduced by the UDI and has unanimous support, but there are disagreements between the government and the opposition as to when it should take effect. For obvious reasons, the government wants it to take effect after the local elections in March.

http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/dossiers/vote_blanc_aux_elections.asp

[Antonio the Sixth]

Not up to the minute breaking news, but France should recognize white votes (vote blanc) - defined as envelopes returned without a ballot - by counting them separately from invalid votes but they won't be taken into account for calculating the 'suffrages exprimés'. It was introduced by the UDI and has unanimous support, but there are disagreements between the government and the opposition as to when it should take effect. For obvious reasons, the government wants it to take effect after the local elections in March.

http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/dossiers/vote_blanc_aux_elections.asp

I think you're mistaken... "vote blanc" in France usually is an actual blank ballot which you can put in the envelope.

[Hash]

Not up to the minute breaking news, but France should recognize white votes (vote blanc) - defined as envelopes returned without a ballot - by counting them separately from invalid votes but they won't be taken into account for calculating the 'suffrages exprimés'. It was introduced by the UDI and has unanimous support, but there are disagreements between the government and the opposition as to when it should take effect. For obvious reasons, the government wants it to take effect after the local elections in March.

http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/dossiers/vote_blanc_aux_elections.asp

I think you're mistaken... "vote blanc" in France usually is an actual blank ballot which you can put in the envelope.

Yes, you're correct. However, actual blank ballots are not distributed by the authorities, although on internet voting and machines there is an option to cast a 'vote blanc'. An actual blank piece of paper would be considered as a vote blanc.

That said, the Code électoral (Article L66) currently does not differentiate between a bulletin blanc and bulletin nul so it is tough to currently draw the line.

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The new law would remove the words "blancs, ceux" from the article, so the aforementioned votes would be de facto bulletins nuls. So I guess blank papers and those without ballots in the envelope will be considered as bulletins blancs. Sorry for the mixup.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Not up to the minute breaking news, but France should recognize white votes (vote blanc) - defined as envelopes returned without a ballot - by counting them separately from invalid votes but they won't be taken into account for calculating the 'suffrages exprimés'. It was introduced by the UDI and has unanimous support, but there are disagreements between the government and the opposition as to when it should take effect. For obvious reasons, the government wants it to take effect after the local elections in March.

http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/dossiers/vote_blanc_aux_elections.asp

I think you're mistaken... "vote blanc" in France usually is an actual blank ballot which you can put in the envelope.

Yes, you're correct. However, actual blank ballots are not distributed by the authorities, although on internet voting and machines there is an option to cast a 'vote blanc'. An actual blank piece of paper would be considered as a vote blanc.

I'm pretty sure I saw a pile of blank ballots along with the piles for the other candidates at my polling place back in 2012.

[Hash]

Not up to the minute breaking news, but France should recognize white votes (vote blanc) - defined as envelopes returned without a ballot - by counting them separately from invalid votes but they won't be taken into account for calculating the 'suffrages exprimés'. It was introduced by the UDI and has unanimous support, but there are disagreements between the government and the opposition as to when it should take effect. For obvious reasons, the government wants it to take effect after the local elections in March.

http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/14/dossiers/vote_blanc_aux_elections.asp

I think you're mistaken... "vote blanc" in France usually is an actual blank ballot which you can put in the envelope.

Yes, you're correct. However, actual blank ballots are not distributed by the authorities, although on internet voting and machines there is an option to cast a 'vote blanc'. An actual blank piece of paper would be considered as a vote blanc.

I'm pretty sure I saw a pile of blank ballots along with the piles for the other candidates at my polling place back in 2012.

Well, that would have been illegal:

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[Antonio the Sixth]

Weird. Maybe I don't remember well.

[RogueBeaver]

Sarko: "The question is not to know if I want or don't want to return. I cannot not return. I don't have a choice. It's destiny. Destiny," Le Figaro also has him leading Flanby 46-27. Keeping my fingers crossed for a rematch.

[Velasco]

The Destiny's Anointed, then. I'll send a greeting card to Carla.

[Hash]

Le Figaro also has him leading Flanby 46-27. Keeping my fingers crossed for a rematch.

Misleading. The question asks which of Poison Dwarf and Flanby they prefer to see as President, rather than an election matchup. The other parts of the poll confirm that while Sarko's image has improved some since 2012, he's still rather polarizing.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Le Figaro also has him leading Flanby 46-27. Keeping my fingers crossed for a rematch.

Misleading. The question asks which of Poison Dwarf and Flanby they prefer to see as President, rather than an election matchup. The other parts of the poll confirm that while Sarko's image has improved some since 2012, he's still rather polarizing.

Yeah, the remaining 27% are probably mostly disgruntled leftists who don't want to say they'd prefer Flamby but would still easily vote for him over Sarko in an actual election.

It makes little sense to hit the panic button 4 years before the elections.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

If Flanby can beat anyone (and the 'if' is currently relevant) than it's the Poison Dwarf.

[RogueBeaver]

Flanby: taxes are too high ... but they're rising as I speak.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Flanby: taxes are too high ... but they're rising as I speak.

Jesus, what an idiot.

Taxes aren't too high. They are just improperly distributed.