France General Discussion II: Living under Marxism

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New president, new thread (largely because I'm too lazy to find the old one). But at any rate, with a professional soap opera/comedy troupe in power and a bunch of people who've lived in palaces and had nice cars with chauffeurs for ten years now living like hobos in opposition, these five years should be fun. Even if Flanby is really proving to be the boring flabby baby he's always been.

The first news is the mini-shuffle, which adds four new people to the cabinet for a total of 38.

The four newbies are:
Thierry Repentin (PS senator from Savoie): junior minister for professional development and learning
Anne-Marie Escoffier (PRG senator from Aveyron): junior minister for decentralization
Guillaume Garot (PS mayor of Laval and deputy from Mayenne, Segogo hack): junior minister for agrifood
Hélène Conway-Mouret (PS senator for French people abroad): junior minister for French citizens abroad

The two major changes are:
Delphine Batho (PS deputy from Deux-Sevres, Segogoist): becomes minister of the environment, sustainable development and energy after being junior minister of nothing under the minister of justice and Grand Moral Figure of the French Republic (Christy Taubira)
Nicole Bricq (PS senator from Seine-et-Marne): the former minister of the environment becomes minister of international trade, a new ministry detached from Mosco's cabinet.

Other minor changes:
Stéphane Le Foll (PS deputy from Sarthe): agriculture minister also adds "forests" to his portfolio (lol)
Sylvia Pinel (PRG deputy from Tarn-et-Garonne, who is semi-hot and my idol of sorts): becomes a full blast cabinet minister; minister of crafts, trade and tourism. In the first cabinet, she'd been under Sir Arnaud Montebourg, First Lord of Saone-et-Loire and Savior of French Manufacturing
Michèle Delaunay (PS deputy from Gironde): in her title as junior minister, 'dependence' becomes 'autonomy' (lolx2)
Benoît Hamon (PS deputy from Yvelines): in his title as junior minister, he gains 'consumption'
Marie-Arlette Carlotti (PS deputy from BDR): in her title as junior minister, she gains 'fight against exclusion' to her portfolio for handicapped people
Yamina Benguigui (nobody knows): loses the 'French citizens living abroad' and is only junior minister for La Francophonie. Big deal.

This basically adds 3 senators, when there had been only one senator in the first cabinet. Garot's inclusion is to help Segogo get over her hilarious crushing. Helene Conway was the last-ditch choice after Axelle Lemaire, the new PS deputy for England/Northern Europe refused the gig. And Escoffier's inclusion and Pinel's promotion are to please Baylet, whose little fit about the PRG's low responsibilities in the first government had an effect.

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A few comments about the groups:

The GDR group basically got, on top of the 10 FG, the 2 Martinican nationalists and another Martinican who is close to them (from the RDM), then Huguette Bello, the former Reunionese Communist who left the PCR. The most surprising is Gabrielle Serville, who is from the Guianese Socialist Party (PSG) which I would have thought would have joined the Socialists. It is interesting to note that the MUP deputy (Robert Hue's party) joined the Radical grouping and the 3 MRC deputies joined the Socialist group like Hutin had done in 2007. I guess they recognize who got them where they are in the first place.

The PS dissidents besides Falorni (and also the criminal Andrieux) are 'apparentes' to the SRC group. The MRC, Serge Letchimy and Chantal Berthelot are also in the group. Gabrielle Louis-Carabin, who only five years ago was a strong Sarkozyst from Guadeloupe but who has turned into a leftie, is also in the group.

The Ecolo group will, in reality, have 17 members because Duflot's suppleant is the former PS deputy who will sit, obviously, in the SRC group. The Greenies, who always need to be unique, also have a co-presidency with de Rugy and Barbara Pompili (Somme) as co-prez. But the official rules don't recognize a co-presidency, so I guess de Rugy is First Consul rather than co-president.

The Radical group has the 12 PRG deputies, the MUP deputy (in the IDF regional council, the MUP and PRG already form a group), the MoDem guy from La Reunion (who, as I've said before, is pretty leftie and won with leftie votes) and Falorni. Falorni has said that he isn't joining the PRG and is only doing this while the PS stops playing its boring act and lets down its stupid vendetta against him. It's interesting to point out that Sylvia Pinel's suppleant is PS but this is compensated by Cahuzac's PRG suppleant. The official name is 'Radical, Republican, Democratic and Progressive' group. The name 'progressive' is amusing to somebody like me who likes 3rd Republic parliamentary groups, because the 'progressive' groups back then were basically pretty darn conservative right-wingers. The word 'democratic' seems like a new buzzword.

The UDI group is really interesting. In reality, all the NC people - including Lagarde's 5 Urcidistes and the seven other 'morinistes' - have joined it (though Damien Abad, the old NC MEP elected in the Ain, is UMP now. lol morin). Consider that Morin had basically sworn he didn't want to sit in the same group as Lagarde... But only 5 Radicals have joined it (out of a potential total of 12): Borloo, Jego, Reynier and two others who are unimportant. Nice job, Borloo! Otherwise, the group includes all 3 Tahoeraa MPs from Polynesia, the two Caledonie ensemble centre-rightists from NC. Then the group turns into oddballs: Jean-Christophe Fromantin, the maverick centre-right mayor of Neuilly and new DVD deputy; the centrist ex-UDF UMPer Henri Plagnol, but then the sole remaining deputy of the really conservative right-wing CNIP (Gilles Bourdouleix) and F-X Villain, the mayor of Cambrai who is supposed to be in NDA's party (but NDA is a non-inscrit). The most bizarre is Yannick Favennec (Mayenne), who is a liberal (ex-DL) Copeiste (though he's also kind of a maverick and had often ranted against Sarko on tweeter). What took him?

So the UDI is more a group of right-wingers, from real centrists to fake centrists (centre-rightists) to oddball UMPers to really right-wing folks, than an actual centrist grouping. Of course, I've always known to be wary of anything which includes the word 'independant(s)' in it, because indepedants has always meant reactionaries. It's fine to know that some things never change.

The UMP group is unsurprising, of course. The UMP dissidents (people like Solere or Gilles Lurton in Saint-Malo) are in it as 'apparentes' like are the remaining Radicals.

So the non-inscrits include Ary Chalus, the centre-left (GUSR?) deputy from Guadeloupe; the new DVD deputy from Wallis-et-Futuna, Lassalle, the MPF woman and the ex-MPF youngie from Les Sables (apparently approached by the UDI too), NDA and the 3 far-rightists.

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The austerity will probably be quite bad. The government is already getting out the syrup: it has announced the legalization of gay marriage and adoptions for 2013.

Would somebody please think of the children?

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Hurray ! They will repeal the local governments reform !! Gaël will be happy.

That's cool I guess. But I hope that they won't just accept the stupid and redundant status-quo, and that they won't treat decentralization as allowing useless regions to build some stupid park in the middle of nowhere. I'm curious as to what alternative they will come up with, just as I'm curious about the introduction of PR and the quasi necessary redistricting which comes along with it.

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Mmmh, maybe I should contribute actual stuff to this thread instead of letting it become the most boring commentary on HOLLANDE MET THE RANDOM GUY WHO'S LABOUR LEADER, HE'S SO KEWLL!111

In interesting summer news, there's the particularly amusing and bizarre "Dallas-sur-Moselle" case between two right-wing Senators from Moselle who really hate each other and are always seeking to destroy one another.

Marianne apparently leaked a really fascinating conversation between one of them, F. Grosdidier (UMP, mayor of Woippy) and some shady guy about how to destroy the other, J-L. Masson (DVD, the guy who hates bloggers). Besides some great juicy details about how Masson is a nymphomaniac fruitcake, Grosdider says that the only way to destroy him is to have him caught in bed with underage girls in Morocco.

http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2012/08/01/a-metz-la-haine-entre-deux-senateurs-de-droite-vire-au-dallas-sur-moselle_1740878_823448.html
http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2012/08/01/francois-grosdidier-et-jean-pierre-masson-des-ennemis-de-trente-ans_1740884_823448.html
http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2012/07/31/un-senateur-suggere-de-pieger-un-adversaire-politique-avec-une-mineure_1740759_823448.html

For reminders, Moselle is also the place where a UMP deputy (Demange or something) in 2008 assassinated his mistress in broad daylight, almost in public, before killing himself afterwards.

In non-underage Arab girls news, Jean-Christophe Lagarde, Morin's enemy, has come around to creating his very own centrist party by splitting off from the NC. It is called the FED - Force europeenne democrate (instead of the Centre humaniste europeen, CHE...). He made a big deal out of it, but the list of those who have signed up for a ride is underwhelming. Besides Michel Mercier, you have only really have Hervé Marseille, Laurent Lafon, François Rochebloine and André Santini. It doesn't appear as if Sauvadet or Leroy, the two other lagardiste NC deputies, have joined him.

Lagarde is the only centrist, with Borloo, who is actually somewhat relevant and a semi-capable politician (in contrast, Morin is a moron), but the creation of like the sixth or seventh centrist party isn't helping their case much.

There's also UMP news, but it takes too long to explain that (and it's too early).

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Amusing news of the day:

Duflot awarded 30 Legions d'honneurs, including 13 to elected officials (including 6 Greenies) who are all lefties. Lionnel Luca (UMPFN) throws a fit.
http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2012/08/03/cecile-duflot-a-decerne-la-legion-d-honneur-a-plusieurs-membres-de-son-parti_1741917_823448.html

The UMP mayor of Nogent-sur-Marne has a creepy crush on Carlita: he puts up a statue of her in his town
http://bigbrowser.blog.lemonde.fr/2012/08/02/bella-ciao-carla-bruni-immortalisee-en-simple-ouvriere-italienne/#xtor=RSS-32280322

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The Légion d'Honneur has been exploited for political (and personal) purposes since its creation. Seriously, do right-wingers want us look back at Sarkozy's appointments ?

Lest we forget, Jean Charest is commandant de la Légion d'honneur. If a corrupt twat who has never done anything for France can have it, then I think EELV in its entirety can get it without there being any problem.

(and Luca would probably prefer to name some fascists instead, so...)

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Well, so much for "Le changement, c'est maintenant!"  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19194639# 
Will someone please fire Valls already?

Well, I don't see why PS should close eyes and let people live in illegal and insalubrious camps.
Most kids aren't going to school, nobody pays taxes....
Helping immigrants, yes, letting lawless areas exist, no.

Besides, anyone who expected a Hollande presidency to mark a fundamental or even significant change in immigration policy was quite deluded.

Since the 1970s at the least, French public opinion on immigration has been profoundly conservative (if not borderline xenophobic) and I think there's even been a shift further to the right on immigration since 2007 with the economic crisis and all. According to an Ipsos poll right before April 22, 66% agreed with the old statement "there are too many immigrants in France", against 'only' 48% who agreed with the same statement in the CEVIPOF's 2007 post-election Panel. Sure, a majority of left-wingers disagree with that statement, but while you have only 10% or so of Sarko voters who disagree with it, you still have "only" 60% of left-wing voters who disagree.

And while I didn't find similar data on 2012 or 2007, old data for the past elections has shown that on the topic of immigration, those who said that Le Pen had the best solutions was significantly above Le Pen's actual vote share in the election. For a similar point of reference, Sarkozy always scored the best against Flanby on the question of "fighting illegal immigration" or something along those lines. Some 65-70% of respondents answered that they trusted Sarko more than Hollande on immigration.

Given how a small but not insignificant part of the PS/the left's destruction in 2002 was due to the perception - fair or unfair - that Jospin's government had been 'soft on crime' and too liberal/lenient on immigration, the PS has been eager (and made no secret about it) about reconquering the issue of immigration/public safety from the UMP/FN since then. Valls built a lot of his image within the party as one of those 'tougher' guys within the PS who was helping the left reconquer the issue.

(another Hash effortpost which serves no purpose)

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As with every government, we'll probably get some bullsh**t institutional reform which won't fundamentally change anything and certainly won't be anything noticeably better than the current structure. Isn't their local government reform supposed to be a return to the status-quo?

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There's going to be some big anti-gay marriage/adoption 'manif' on Sunday, which is going to have an interesting mix of charming people - Collard, PanzerMiss and PanzerDaddy (but not PanzerGirl), Gollnisch (Holocaust denier), JF Cope (vote rigger) and his tool (Jacob), Hortefeux, Pecresse, Bertrand alongside a nice mix of far-right reactionary Catholics, neo-Nazi types, assorted skinheads, homophobes and the like. I'm sure the browns and Muslims will be pleased to know that the far-right and the UMP doesn't hate only them...

Le Monde has details: http://www.lemonde.fr/politique/article/2013/01/09/mariage-gay-qui-ira-manifester-a-l-ump-et-au-fn_1814269_823448.html
It also provides a nice list of raging homophobes vs. more tolerable opponents

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Hollande would be unbelievably retarded to backtrack on this (well, he already is unbelievably retarded, but that's another matter). Nobody besides a small collection of reactionary olds and the usual homophobes actually cares all that much about this, and when pressed it's something like 60% who want gay marriage (sure, gay adoption isn't as popular, but still).

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Apparently, support for SSM in France has collapsed from about 70% to 50% within the past year.

How accurate is this ?

No, support for marriage has hovered between 60 and 65% since 2004.

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There's also way less reasons to go out and support the law, because (a) while most support gay marriage, few are really fired up about it - unlike opponents, which are a majority but way more fired up; (b) the supporters don't need to pressure anybody because the government won't back down a lot so going out to support the law is kind of useless and really symbolic  - otoh, the opponents by going out in big numbers may hope to pressure the government into changing its position (which won't happen, because even Flanby and his nincompoops aren't that retarded).

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The gay marriage debate has started. Taubira made a surprisingly powerful and stirring defense of gay marriage and destroyed the right's strawman arguments; the right wants a referendum (which would be arguably unconstitutional); the right continues to prove that they're raging homophobes from the 1860s (speaking about 'nature' and that awful stuff). Jacques Bompard (fascist creep from the Vaucluse) is trolling, and has proposed amendments to legalize polygamy, incest, marriages between minors and family members but also getting rid of marriage altogether.

Here's a diagram of how the deputies should vote: http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/visuel/2013/01/30/mariage-pour-tous-comment-devraient-voter-les-deputes_1824115_3224.html

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A summary of the right's 5,630 amendments to the text:
http://www.huffingtonpost.fr/2013/01/28/mariage-gay-les-pires-amendements-deposes-opposition_n_2567744.html#quiz_6059

Besides the trollin'-n'-strawmannin' fascist who proposes to legalize pedophilia, incest and polygamy; highlights include: xenophobia (the current bill would allow bi-national couples to marry even if one of their native countries does not recognize SSM), weird religious sh**t from Thierry Benoit, some weird sh**t about how children should always live with their biological parents (a thinly-veiled attack on adoption and adoptive parents in general) and banning adoptions in general by singles.

The right sinks lower and lower every day.

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Communist parties in North America are so small and tiny and many of them have adopted New Left-type causes such as gay marriage/feminism/radical environmentalism and so forth, leading to the view (in the US and Canada) that communism is a very, very socially liberal ideology which always strongly embraces stuff like gay marriage. In countries like France where the communist party hasn't always met in a phone booth, there is still a significant share of old-timers/orthodox communists who are very much Old Left/Soviet Union in their ideology and ways which makes them rather socially conservative (and the traditional PCF electorate is far from being socially liberal). I know that Alain Bocquet, an other fairly orthodox dude, also had some second thoughts about gay marriage.

correction: André Gerin was not defeated, he retired in 2012 and the FG did not hold the seat (and wasn't really expected to anyway).

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Analysis of the vote:

568 votes
In favour: 329
Against: 229
Abstentions: 10

SRC 283 vs 4 vs 5
votes against: Bernadette Laclais (Savoie), Jérôme Lambert (Charente), Patrick Lebreton (Réunion), Gabrielle Louis-Carabin (Guadeloupe)
abstentions: Ibrahim Aboubacar (Mayotte), Marie-Françoise Bechtel (Aisne), Jean-Luc Laurent (Val-de-Marne), Jean-Philippe Mallé (Yvelines), Dominique Potier (Meurthe-et-Moselle)

Note: Laclais and Lambert opposed gay adoption and had openly criticized the law. Lambert, one of Mitterrand's nephews, announced he would vote no a while ago. Gabrielle Louis-Carabin is ex-UMP. Bechtel and Laurent are members of the MRC. Mallé opposed everything, probably didn't vote against because of party loyalty.
Jalton (Guadeloupe), Vainqueur-Christophe (Guadeloupe) were absent - 7 others were also absent apparently. All other SRC members from Martinique, Réunion, Guyane, Mayotte voted in favour.

UMP 187 vs 2 vs 5
votes in favour: Benoist Apparu (Marne), Franck Riester (Seine-et-Marne). Dominique Tian (Bouches-du-Rhône) is recorded as being in favour, but he corrected the official record saying he wanted to vote against.
abstentions: Nicole Ameline (Calvados), Nathalie Kosciusko-Morizet (Essonne), Pierre Lellouche (Paris), Bruno Le Maire (Eure), Édouard Philippe (Seine-Maritime)

Note: Riester is a loyal Copéiste but he's also openly gay. Apparu, Ameline, NKM, Lellouche and Le Maire have reputations as social liberals within the party.

UDI 24 vs 5
votes in favour: Philippe Gomès (New Caledonia), Yves Jégo (Seine-et-Marne), Sonia Lagarde (New Caledonia), Jean-Christophe Lagarde (Seine-Saint-Denis). Jean-Louis Borloo (Nord) is recorded as being against, but he corrected the official record saying he wanted to vote in favour.

Note: Jégo is a close ally of Borloo and is socially liberal as well. Gomès and Lagarde are members of Calédonie ensemble, a local centrist party in New Caledonia. Jean-Christophe Lagarde is also not surprising, he's always been to the left of the old NC.

Ecolo 17

RRDP 13 vs 2
votes against: Ary Chalus (Guadeloupe), Thierry Robert (Réunion)

GDR 9 vs 4
votes against: Bruno Nestor Azérot (Martinique), Patrice Carvalho (Oise), Alfred Marie-Jeanne (Martinique), Jean-Philippe Nilor (Martinique)

NI 7
all against, including Jean Lassalle (MoDem)

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"Cumul" reform delayed indefinitely... This government is officially a joke.

Shocked. I certainly never expected a party of power-hungry career politicians would do that.

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In today's edition of Pollsters are Morons, we have CSA (obviously) releasing a national poll for local elections (with a sample of 1000).

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I guess I should put this here: anybody interested in me beginning to write up some complete guide (like the incomplete one I attempted before the legislatives in June) for the municipal elections next year, covering all major cities and other issues of local government in France? I figure if I get an early start, I might put together something which isn't horrible.

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The bigger question for me is of the kind've country where the leader of the racist right has an approval rating in the 30s.

Face it, she's been great at downplaying the whole racist aspect and has never had the appearance of a senile old Holocaust denying fart like Daddy had. Besides, she's a very good (by that I mean skilled + good at what she does; rather than subjectively good) politician.

With the new PS primary system from 2012, will Hollande have to be renominated by said system?

The new PS statutes have entrenched the idea of the 'primaire citoyenne' (open primary) like in 2011.

Reiterating my offer for a guide about the 2014 municipal elections, unless people prefer to panic about Panzergirl's latest poll rating.

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What ever happened with that Cope-Fillion thing? Did that ever come to a conclusion?

The UMP will hold a new congress sometime this fall. In the meanwhile, both sides have come to an uneasy truce/ceasefire/compromise at the end of December 2012, the solution was to create a huge leadership which 'doubles up' every position in the party leadership with a copeiste and filloniste in each spot. Jeff is president, but you have two top VPs (Chatel + Wauquiez), 18 delegate VPs (each position with a filloniste and copeiste); 2 top SGs (Tabarot + Pecresse), 12 delegate SGs (each position with a filloniste and copeiste). And because it's the UMP, it's basically a sausage fest: Rachida Dati is the only female VP out of 20...

They should also review the statutes to fix some issues and make it tougher for elections to be rigged. In return, the RUMP dissolved. They all hate each other's guts, but they all understand that sh**tting on one another in public before the local elections is hardly productive.

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Rather, what is attracting attention in France is that the budget minister, Jérôme Cahuzac, has resigned in relation to the allegations that he had an offshore bank account in Switzerland. He still claims he's innocent.

Bernard Cazeneuve (PS), junior minister for European affairs, has replaced him. Cazeneuve is a former noniste from 2005, but he lobbied deputies for the EU budget treaty. Thierry Repentin (PS) replaces him as junior minister for European affairs but Repentin's position as junior minister for professional development and learning is not being replaced.

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Sarko indicted in the Mamie Zinzin/Bettencourt affair: http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/article/2013/03/21/affaire-bettencourt-sarkozy-confronte-au-majordome_1852256_3224.html#xtor=EPR-32280229-[NL_Titresdujour]-20130322-[titres]

The right throws a fit, the FN is doing its smug face and the left is overjoyed.

The NatAss rejected the first no confidence motion of this government, proposed by the UMP. Only the UMP and most of the UDI voted in favour; all others didn't vote at all because only votes in favour count against the government.

btw, Sarko seems to have given up on life. He looks as sh**tty as the Sarcelles Pimp.

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Two great reactions of outrage from the UMP:

Christine Boutin: Coup de tonnerre: Mise en examen @NicolasSarkozy . Est ce que cela va régler les pbs des français ? Non ! Nous devenons fous!
(is homophobic ranting and bible-bashing going to solve the country's problems? also, how is some crook getting served with an indictment a sign of going crazy?)

Lionnel Luca: Mettre en examen un ancien Pdt pour abus de faiblesse sous prétexte de financement de camp élect est grotesque et en dit long sur la justice
(I know Luca is a neofascist and a racist buffon, but how is an indictment for gross violation of campaign finance laws 'grotesque'? What is grotesque in Luca's bizarro little world?)

And JF Copé isn't even feigning faux outrage and isn't doing great at concealing his inner joy at the news:
Le seul mot qui me vienne à l’esprit quant à cette mise en examen de Nicolas Sarkozy, c’est incompréhension.

Comme vous, je trouve que le traitement qui est aujourd’hui réservé à Nicolas Sarkozy est profondément injuste.

En tant que Président de notre mouvement et ami de Nicolas Sarkozy, je veux redire que je suis à ses côtés, dans cette épreuve.

Same goes for Fillon:
Je suis stupéfait par la décision de mise en examen de Nicolas Sarkozy qui m'apparait aussi injuste qu'extravagante

J'exprime mon soutien et mon amitié à Nicolas

J'espère que la vérité triomphera au bout de cette épreuve douloureuse qui lui est injustement imposée