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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: The Regional Restructuring Amendment of 2012 (Tabled)  (Read 1209 times)
Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: June 24, 2012, 10:51:54 pm »
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The Regional Restructuring Amendment of 2012

The States of Denial (Colorado), Optimism (Wyoming) and Exhilaration (Montana) shall be transfered to the Pacific Region, residents therin shall become citizens of and subject to the laws duly adopted in that region.

The States of Elation (Oklahoma), Kentucky, West Virginia, and Virginia shall be transfered to the Imperial Dominion of the South, residents therin shall become citizens of and subject to the laws duly adopted in that region.

The States of Happiness (Minnesota), Confusion (Iowa), Shock (North Dakota), Awe (South Dakota), Curiosity (Nebraska), and Enthusiasm(Kansas) shall be transfered to the Mideast Region, residents therein shall become citizens of and subject to the laws duly adopted in that region.

The State of Maryland shall be transfered to the Northeast Region, residents therein shall become citizens of and subject to the laws duly adopted in that region.


Article 1:

Section 1: The Senate

1.The Senate shall be composed of ten eight Senators, each with a term of four months.
2.No Person shall be a Senator who has not attained 200 or more posts, whose account is not at least 60 days old, and is not a registered voter in the Region that they represent.
3.The Vice President of the Republic of Atlasia shall be the President of the Senate, but shall have no vote unless they be equally divided.
4.The Senate shall choose their other officers, and also a President pro tempore, who shall act as President of the Senate in the absence of the Vice President.


Sponsor: NC Yankee for Yelnoc on behalf of Antonio or something like that.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2012, 07:21:06 am by Senator North Carolina Yankee »Logged

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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2012, 10:53:31 pm »
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Oh lordie how did I ever let that yahoo from Georgia talk me into introducing this. Tongue
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« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2012, 10:55:04 pm »
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My biggest reason for opposition is that this infringes on regional rights in the Senate. I would be more supportive if each region were given 2 regional Senators and there were 4 at-large seats.

Also, I think there should be a grace period where during a 1 month period after implementation, citizens can have one free move that won't hurt them, as some people have ties to a region and should have the option of whether they want to stay in or go to another.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2012, 10:55:30 pm »
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Also, could someone provide numbers of what the breakdown of voters would be for each region?
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2012, 10:58:05 pm »
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The reason I agreed to introduce this was so that we could have a discussion in the Senate. The specifics of this particular proposal are entirely the responsbility of Yelnoc and Antonio to advocate for and I am going to require they both get their asses before this Senate in this thread before 24 hours expires.

If this one meets a terrible reception then we as Senators should try to find a way to rewrite in a way that will achieve our mutual objectives but may still pass all the hurdles to acheiving such a change. It is a tall order I realize but we are here to do the hard ones as well as the easy ones.
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« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2012, 11:00:55 pm »
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My biggest reason for opposition is that this infringes on regional rights in the Senate. I would be more supportive if each region were given 2 regional Senators and there were 4 at-large seats.

Also, I think there should be a grace period where during a 1 month period after implementation, citizens can have one free move that won't hurt them, as some people have ties to a region and should have the option of whether they want to stay in or go to another.

With four regions times by 2 that would give you eight Seantors compared with only four at-large seats. Theres preserving region rights and then their is a regionalist shakedown of the federal government. I think a balance is best between the two interests.
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« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2012, 11:02:40 pm »
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Oh God, I leave the Senate in time for this to come up?!?

No, no, no, never, ever, ever, not in a million years will this ever be a good idea and I will see this amendment breathe its last breath so help me Dave.
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« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2012, 11:07:23 pm »
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Something else:
I think it should be required that the Midwest passes this, considering they're losing their region.
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« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2012, 11:11:03 pm »
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Are you kidding, each state to be shifted has to vote on this individually accounting to the Constitution.


I suppose adding in an extra requirement of Midwest approval would be fair.
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« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2012, 12:57:30 am »
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I could not be more opposed to this.  Regional restructuring is not a proposal that is going to substantially improve activity; it is drastic change for the sake of drastic change.  I'll never vote for this.
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« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2012, 01:56:06 am »
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I strongly oppose this bill.  Not only does it needlessly reduce the number of Senate seats, but this idea is very unpopular in both regions.
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« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2012, 05:47:32 pm »
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Yankee addressed tmth's concern on regional rights. 

Oh God, I leave the Senate in time for this to come up?!?

No, no, no, never, ever, ever, not in a million years will this ever be a good idea and I will see this amendment breathe its last breath so help me Dave.

Didn't expect you to support this, but then it is you're region.  You and how many other active midwesterners?  Two?  Question; would you support another region being broken up?

I could not be more opposed to this.  Regional restructuring is not a proposal that is going to substantially improve activity; it is drastic change for the sake of drastic change.  I'll never vote for this.

Are you sure about that?  Reducing the number of regions reduces the number of regional governments.  Less regional governments means less offices to fill.  Less offices to fill means competitive elections.  Isn't competitive elections on the regional level something that, for most of us, is only a dream?

I strongly oppose this bill.  Not only does it needlessly reduce the number of Senate seats, but this idea is very unpopular in both regions.
We could work on a compromise to fill those two eliminated seats.  Districts are a possibility.

And do you know the change is highly unpopular in "both" regions for a fact?
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2012, 06:05:20 pm »
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Oh, my mistake.  The public was actually split on this.  I was thinking of another poll.

Anyhow, I will not support any bill that re-institutes districts.  Gerrymandering is a concern to me and I doubt it will help very well, activity wise.  As for the competitiveness problem, elections are traditionally uncompetitive simply because not enough candidates run.  The Northeast and Mideast elections were fairly competitive last weekend, but the Midwest, Pacific, and IDS ones were not because only one person was running in each of them.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2012, 06:06:57 pm by Senator Scott »Logged

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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2012, 06:48:53 pm »
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Entirely disregarding the fact that this is a horrible idea in general, if we're going to have four regions that roughly coincide with US Census regions, why don't we just call them Northeast, South, Midwest, and West?
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« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2012, 09:44:53 pm »
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If this were to take effect, the registration would look like this (not including changes since Homely's update today):

Registration Statistics
June 25, 2012

RegionLiberalLaborWhigBlocPLPOtherIndTotal
Northeast96304101143
South4191310437
Mideast788017435
Pacific582002421
Total2524241362028140
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« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2012, 09:50:40 pm »
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If this were to take effect, the registration would look like this (not including changes since Homely's update today):

Registration Statistics
June 25, 2012

RegionLiberalLaborWhigBlocPLPOtherIndTotal
Northeast96304101143
South4191310437
Mideast788017435
Pacific582002421
Total2524241362028140

Beat me to it! For the Senate's consideration, a before and after effect on each dominant affiliation/non-affiliation by region:



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Iron King SJoyce
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« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2012, 10:31:48 pm »
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Entirely disregarding the fact that this is a horrible idea in general, if we're going to have four regions that roughly coincide with US Census regions, why don't we just call them Northeast, South, Midwest, and West?

Because (for IDS especially & Pacific to a lesser extent) those names are traditional and part of the regional culture.
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« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2012, 11:03:46 pm »
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Yankee addressed tmth's concern on regional rights. 

Oh God, I leave the Senate in time for this to come up?!?

No, no, no, never, ever, ever, not in a million years will this ever be a good idea and I will see this amendment breathe its last breath so help me Dave.

Didn't expect you to support this, but then it is you're region.  You and how many other active midwesterners?  Two?  Question; would you support another region being broken up?

No; never.  It's all or nothing.  Eliminate regions, implement some sort of actual reform, radically restructure regional boundaries so that everyone needs to deal with having a new region, but eliminating just one region makes no sense at all.  I've made this point before, and I'll make it again: you're only proposing getting rid of the Midwest because it's the least active one right now.  I'd probably dispute that point, but, fine, let's say it's true.  But there's no reason whatsoever to presume that it will be the least active region forevermore.  Back when similar proposals have been floated in the past, it was traditionally the Mideast that was  proposed to be axed, because it was historically the least active region and viewed as the one with the least distinctive "regional culture", plus it was in the middle so it was easy to carve up.

In destroying the Midwest, I can say for sure you're demolishing a region with a proud and interesting history and a distinct regional identity - we're the region of *hughughug*, happiness, comity, a strange infatuation with personalist governments, and loony leftism.  That's fine if you have a compelling reason to do so, but I haven't even seen one being presented.  If you feel strongly about competitive elections, you ought to support the abolition of regional senate seats in favor of districts or, better, more at-large seats, so that we Midwesterners wouldn't have to look on as the Mideasterners have all the fun.
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« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2012, 11:43:46 pm »
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Entirely disregarding the fact that this is a horrible idea in general, if we're going to have four regions that roughly coincide with US Census regions, why don't we just call them Northeast, South, Midwest, and West?

Because (for IDS especially & Pacific to a lesser extent) those names are traditional and part of the regional culture.

I'm more concerned about the Mideast/Midwest. I understand the IDS and Pacific.

This is a horrible day anyway.
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« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2012, 11:55:09 pm »
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Entirely disregarding the fact that this is a horrible idea in general, if we're going to have four regions that roughly coincide with US Census regions, why don't we just call them Northeast, South, Midwest, and West?

Because (for IDS especially & Pacific to a lesser extent) those names are traditional and part of the regional culture.

I'm more concerned about the Mideast/Midwest. I understand the IDS and Pacific.

This is a horrible day anyway.

Eh. I honestly don't know why the midwest is called the Mideast and the west is called the Midwest.
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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2012, 12:21:16 am »
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Jesus, I meant 'horrible idea', not 'horrible day'. Sorry about that. Actually I had an okay day.

Anyway, as a former Dean of the Senate I strongly urge you all to vote against this truly awful proposal.
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2012, 09:43:57 am »
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Anyhow, I will not support any bill that re-institutes districts.  Gerrymandering is a concern to me and I doubt it will help very well, activity wise.
Hmm, gerrymandering could be a problem, but then I know there are others out there who supported districts when the idea came up a couple months ago.  Just throwing that out there.  Perhaps under the new four district system we could have two additional senators that each are elected in two regions as a sort of in between of the At-Large and Regional seats.  Senator 9 elected in the Northeast and IDS, and Senator 10 elected in the Midwest and Pacific.

As for the competitiveness problem, elections are traditionally uncompetitive simply because not enough candidates run.  The Northeast and Mideast elections were fairly competitive last weekend, but the Midwest, Pacific, and IDS ones were not because only one person was running in each of them.
And increasing the populations of each region will prompt more candidates to run.

Entirely disregarding the fact that this is a horrible idea in general, if we're going to have four regions that roughly coincide with US Census regions, why don't we just call them Northeast, South, Midwest, and West?
That is for the regions to decide.

No; never.  It's all or nothing.  Eliminate regions, implement some sort of actual reform, radically restructure regional boundaries so that everyone needs to deal with having a new region, but eliminating just one region makes no sense at all.  I've made this point before, and I'll make it again: you're only proposing getting rid of the Midwest because it's the least active one right now.  I'd probably dispute that point, but, fine, let's say it's true.  But there's no reason whatsoever to presume that it will be the least active region forevermore.  Back when similar proposals have been floated in the past, it was traditionally the Mideast that was  proposed to be axed, because it was historically the least active region and viewed as the one with the least distinctive "regional culture", plus it was in the middle so it was easy to carve up.
Why am I proposing to divide up the midwest?  Yes it has been the least active region for years, but that isn't the only reason.  The Midwest is in the middle and so is easy to split up (the northeasterners started pissing and moaning when it was suggested that they absorb some mideastern states; besides, they have so large a population that they do not need to expand).  Also, the current borders are horrid; these are much prettier.  But if you want to propose a different division go right ahead.  All I wanted to do with this bill is move the debate from the Fantasy Elections to Fantasy Government.

In destroying the Midwest, I can say for sure you're demolishing a region with a proud and interesting history and a distinct regional identity - we're the region of *hughughug*, happiness, comity, a strange infatuation with personalist governments, and loony leftism.  That's fine if you have a compelling reason to do so, but I haven't even seen one being presented.  If you feel strongly about competitive elections, you ought to support the abolition of regional senate seats in favor of districts or, better, more at-large seats, so that we Midwesterners wouldn't have to look on as the Mideasterners have all the fun.
That's a shame.  We could keep the Midwest largely intact and just have it absorb the Pacific if that would be more to everyone's liking.  You all need to realize that I am not going to take a very hard line on the regional redrawing so long as certain logical units are kept in place.  Feel free to make counterprosals!  Just please, please quit whining about what an awful idea this is without articulating your position like ilikeverin has done.  Yes, Nathan, I'm talking to you.
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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2012, 11:25:49 am »
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Anyhow, I will not support any bill that re-institutes districts.  Gerrymandering is a concern to me and I doubt it will help very well, activity wise.
Hmm, gerrymandering could be a problem, but then I know there are others out there who supported districts when the idea came up a couple months ago.  Just throwing that out there.  Perhaps under the new four district system we could have two additional senators that each are elected in two regions as a sort of in between of the At-Large and Regional seats.  Senator 9 elected in the Northeast and IDS, and Senator 10 elected in the Midwest and Pacific.
That would be a better idea than mandating new districts every several months.

Quote
And increasing the populations of each region will prompt more candidates to run.

Switching the states around likely will not.  There were plenty of people who turned out to vote, but never do anything else in the game and only turned out because they were PMed to.  Contacting non-players about the game and persuading newcomers to be active is really the only thing we can do, at this point, especially since many people would likely re-register in different regions, anyway.
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« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2012, 08:18:25 pm »
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Sniffs the air

Something is dead!
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« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2012, 11:20:17 pm »
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Does anyone speak (write) English here? Tongue


Or maybe even ancient Greek... Grin
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