Opinion of the USA! (Split)

[Formerly Californian Tony]

I'm surprised to see Freedom County winning, among both Americans and non-Americans.

Why would a non-American join a forum about American politics if he didn't like at least certain aspects of the USA ?

[Assistant to the Regional Manager Cathcon]

I'm surprised to see Freedom County winning, among both Americans and non-Americans.

Why would a non-American join a forum about American politics if he didn't like at least certain aspects of the USA ?

Sometimes I just feel there's a certain amount of hate goin' around.

[Dr. Cynic]

Y'know, there's a lot about this country I don't like and I wish could be improved, but I still love this place. We still do good, even if we're not the "greatest country on earth".

[opebo]

And no, the best country club is the one that the most people want to get into. That club may or may not be highly restrictive, but that's irrelevant except to the extent that it effects the number of people who want to enter.

Buddy, 'most people' or 'the most people' liking something is virtually a guarantee I will despise it - and the idea that good taste is a characteristic of a minority is a truism.  'The most people' like a Macdonalds - does that make it the best restaurant?

Two reforms would move America much closer to being a true freedom country in the sense that everybody had a fair chance. Universal health care and governemt paid tuition at all state colleges. The lack of free education to the poor and the lower middle class is the number one problem for social mobility and a giant waste óf human potential.

Good suggestions - but putting in place a confiscatory income tax on the wealthy is actually necessary as well in order to reduce stratification ('opportunity' simply won't do it, you have to knock the permanent aristocracy down a peg).

[Torie]

Commenting on opebo's and politicus's latest comment, free tuition for public higher education for everybody is a net subsidy to the better off. It would increase inequality, not decrease it. Carefully crafted subsidies for those who cannot afford the same, and would benefit from such an education (many in the system are not benefitting), is another matter. In some ways, the Left agenda will facilitate an ossified class structure, not mitigate it. But I digress.

If you really want to facilitate class mobility, you need to get at kids early in the educational process, starting about two years of age, and really focus on that, so that the ability of kids when they hit first grade is more equal. When you have upper middle class kids by the first grade, having five times the vocabulary of kids not read to by their parents, who also have little or no education, it is almost game over before it begins. And to repeat a point that I have made about 500 times on this forum, starting with grammar school, the poor teacher quality for kids in down market zip codes is a national disgrace, and evil. Just why there is not more outrage about that on the Left, puzzles me. Do they really care about poor folks, vis a vis giving them the tools to compete, or do they just want to make them a handout constituency, which as time goes on, is less and less affordable, as medical service demands, and old people subsidies, chew up more and more of the pie?

[AkSaber]

The quality of its political leaders is not something you can separate from the appreciation of a country.

Perhaps. I like to believe if more of my fellow countrymen were better informed, or just cared enough to pay a little more attention, they'd be eager to vote for people who'd fix things.

As someone who studied in the US... and was, honestly, horrified by how myopic so many Americans were, I think a broader perspective is definitely needed.

A friend of mine who's a teacher in IL, is really disturbed by how they teach the American Revolution as purely, democracy vs tyranny... rather than be honest, that it was actually incredibly complex and doesn't go into the background as to why Britain did what it did etc etc...

America is a great country, full of really good people, the story about American social mobility is increasingly a myth, America is as strata-fied as any European or Western Country for that matter. I think what might irritate people abroad is the idea that the US is the pinnacle of democracy... last time I checked... most western countries have free and fair elections... freedom of the press etc etc...

Just because you're flawed, as all countries are in their own ways, doesn't mean you aren't great... you're just not the best at everything... some countries do do things better than you... but you do other things better than them... it's not a contest.

No kidding... The disconnect between reality and traditional world views held by many is astounding. Maybe it has something to do with the fact the U.S. is the world's dominant power. There are just so many people who say, "I'm right because I say so, and everybody around us has to live their lives like we do."

Honestly, then-Governor Bush said it perfectly in 2000:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9SOVzMV2bc

[Platypus]

America's gone from being by far the best in a field of two to being clearly the worst in a field of one.