Opinion of the Australian system for electing party leaders
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 28, 2024, 08:58:06 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  Individual Politics (Moderator: The Dowager Mod)
  Opinion of the Australian system for electing party leaders
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Poll
Question: Huh
#1
Freedom System
 
#2
Horrible System
 
Show Pie Chart
Partisan results

Total Voters: 15

Author Topic: Opinion of the Australian system for electing party leaders  (Read 1098 times)
You kip if you want to...
change08
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,940
United Kingdom
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: July 04, 2012, 07:50:26 PM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_spill

Horrendous system.

The constant revolving door of leaders on the federal and state level is a joke!
Logged
RogueBeaver
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,058
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2012, 08:51:38 PM »

Horrendous system. Use a delegated convention.
Logged
morgieb
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,625
Australia


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -8.70

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2012, 04:06:03 AM »

Without it Abbott would never have gotten momentum, so HS.
Logged
Vosem
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 15,624
United States


Political Matrix
E: 8.13, S: -6.09

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2012, 05:31:19 PM »

Any member being able to start a spill is a little extreme, but FS on the whole.
Logged
RogueBeaver
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 20,058
Canada
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2012, 06:08:30 PM »

Any member being able to start a spill is a little extreme, but FS on the whole.

I'll modify what I said earlier. To have the leader elected solely by caucus under normal circumstances is a bad idea. Membership should get a say too. But caucus should definitely have a right to replace the leader if they feel it necessary, hence why the idea of spills is a good one. But use them sparingly. Replacing Hawke with Keating and Turnbull with Abbott were good ideas and absolutely necessary. What the Liberals did in the '80s and Lab in the past decade were horrible ideas. Is there a credible reason? Is there a credible challenger? Is the challenger a proven quantity who can outperform the incumbent? Only if all those conditions are fulfilled do you pull the trigger.
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 67,609
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2012, 08:11:20 PM »

Not very democratic, to say the least. But you'd have a revolving door leader situation no matter what system, because that's what Australian political culture is like.
Logged
Supersonic
SupersonicVenue
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,162
United Kingdom


Political Matrix
E: 4.90, S: 0.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2012, 09:00:33 AM »

Not a very good system to say the least.
Logged
You kip if you want to...
change08
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,940
United Kingdom
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2012, 09:12:23 AM »

Not very democratic, to say the least. But you'd have a revolving door leader situation no matter what system, because that's what Australian political culture is like.

But I guess that's a chicken and egg thing. Is the culture like that because it's so easy to get rid of the leader?
Logged
morgieb
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,625
Australia


Political Matrix
E: -7.87, S: -8.70

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2012, 09:14:27 AM »

Not very democratic, to say the least. But you'd have a revolving door leader situation no matter what system, because that's what Australian political culture is like.

But I guess that's a chicken and egg thing. Is the culture like that because it's so easy to get rid of the leader?

Yes, plus everyone is so focused on opinion polls down under.
Logged
BlueDog Bumble
Rookie
**
Posts: 20
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2012, 09:20:39 AM »

I've noticed from my cursory knowledge of Australian politics that most Australian party leaders seem to fall in leadership challenges, whereas this virtually never happens in Canadian politics (the only case I can think of where this happened was when Stockwell Day defeated Preston Manning for the leadership of the CA).
Logged
You kip if you want to...
change08
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,940
United Kingdom
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2012, 09:30:34 AM »

I've noticed from my cursory knowledge of Australian politics that most Australian party leaders seem to fall in leadership challenges, whereas this virtually never happens in Canadian politics (the only case I can think of where this happened was when Stockwell Day defeated Preston Manning for the leadership of the CA).

It's only ever really happened to Heath and Thatcher in the UK as well (in a direct, open challenge).
Logged
Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 12,298
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2012, 10:40:20 AM »

Objectively hilarious.
Logged
You kip if you want to...
change08
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,940
United Kingdom
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2012, 12:48:36 PM »



This too, of course.
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,402
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2012, 04:57:36 PM »

I've noticed from my cursory knowledge of Australian politics that most Australian party leaders seem to fall in leadership challenges, whereas this virtually never happens in Canadian politics (the only case I can think of where this happened was when Stockwell Day defeated Preston Manning for the leadership of the CA).

PC 1983? Alliance 2002?
Logged
BlueDog Bumble
Rookie
**
Posts: 20
Canada


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2012, 09:31:39 AM »

I've noticed from my cursory knowledge of Australian politics that most Australian party leaders seem to fall in leadership challenges, whereas this virtually never happens in Canadian politics (the only case I can think of where this happened was when Stockwell Day defeated Preston Manning for the leadership of the CA).

PC 1983? Alliance 2002?

Ah yes I remember the Alliance in '02. But it's not really the same in 1983, as Clark himself called the election, rather being forced into one like say in Britain in 1990 with Thatcher.
Logged
Platypus
hughento
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 21,478
Australia


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2012, 06:42:44 AM »

Not ideal, but dynamism is important, and it has managed to keep the Presidentialisation of Australian politics vaguely in check...vaguely...
Logged
minionofmidas
Lewis Trondheim
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 58,207
India


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2012, 04:00:46 AM »

Evidently spills wouldn't be called as often if they weren't as likely to succeed even if the rules were what they are. In Germany party leaders have to be reelected every year (at a convention - this silly confusion of party and caucus leadership in English-tradition parliaments is hard to wrap your mind around) and how often are they actually challenged? Not often. Instead, we read the tealeaves on their reelection with only 83% Yes votes.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.037 seconds with 14 queries.