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Reaganfan
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« on: July 05, 2012, 12:11:48 pm »
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The media and others are often talking about Romney's lack of favorability, and his being "out of touch" with "regular people".

Indeed, the Obama campaign is trying to use a well documented Capitalistic background to condemn a candidate.

My question is, does a candidates wealth really matter that much? I mean, if I or anybody I know got a job at a business like Bain Capitol, my family...their family...would all be doing backflips. I can imagine the reaction:

"So and So got a job at Bain Capitol...salary...new office...ect".

"Regular" Americans would be throwing them a party congratulating them on their success. Who would criticize getting a high-paying job and being successful? I don't think I've ever met anybody who would respond negatively to the news of someone getting a job, whether it's minimum wage or high salary. But since the person who did it is now a candidate for President....you attack it?

George H.W. Bush was rich before becoming President. So was Reagan, so was Kennedy. So was Clinton, Dubya and Obama. What's the problem? Isn't Obama just as out of touch?

Seriously? How many Americans are worth $200 million? How many worked for corporations like Bain Capitol? Fair enough. But...how many were lawyers? How many wrote books? It's all the same, Obama and Romney. If you're gonna call one out of touch, say the same for the other.
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BlueDog Bimble
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« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2012, 01:11:19 pm »
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The media and others are often talking about Romney's lack of favorability, and his being "out of touch" with "regular people".

Indeed, the Obama campaign is trying to use a well documented Capitalistic background to condemn a candidate.

My question is, does a candidates wealth really matter that much? I mean, if I or anybody I know got a job at a business like Bain Capitol, my family...their family...would all be doing backflips. I can imagine the reaction:

"So and So got a job at Bain Capitol...salary...new office...ect".

"Regular" Americans would be throwing them a party congratulating them on their success. Who would criticize getting a high-paying job and being successful? I don't think I've ever met anybody who would respond negatively to the news of someone getting a job, whether it's minimum wage or high salary. But since the person who did it is now a candidate for President....you attack it?

George H.W. Bush was rich before becoming President. So was Reagan, so was Kennedy. So was Clinton, Dubya and Obama. What's the problem? Isn't Obama just as out of touch?

Seriously? How many Americans are worth $200 million? How many worked for corporations like Bain Capitol? Fair enough. But...how many were lawyers? How many wrote books? It's all the same, Obama and Romney. If you're gonna call one out of touch, say the same for the other.

It's the politics of envy. In an election like this, the left is always going to pillory a rich right-wing candidate, as its a good way of nabbing votes. Although, I find Obama to be slightly hypocritical, given that he's worth a fortune to.
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« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2012, 01:18:55 pm »
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The media and others are often talking about Romney's lack of favorability, and his being "out of touch" with "regular people".

Indeed, the Obama campaign is trying to use a well documented Capitalistic background to condemn a candidate.

My question is, does a candidates wealth really matter that much? I mean, if I or anybody I know got a job at a business like Bain Capitol, my family...their family...would all be doing backflips. I can imagine the reaction:

"So and So got a job at Bain Capitol...salary...new office...ect".

"Regular" Americans would be throwing them a party congratulating them on their success. Who would criticize getting a high-paying job and being successful? I don't think I've ever met anybody who would respond negatively to the news of someone getting a job, whether it's minimum wage or high salary. But since the person who did it is now a candidate for President....you attack it?

George H.W. Bush was rich before becoming President. So was Reagan, so was Kennedy. So was Clinton, Dubya and Obama. What's the problem? Isn't Obama just as out of touch?

Seriously? How many Americans are worth $200 million? How many worked for corporations like Bain Capitol? Fair enough. But...how many were lawyers? How many wrote books? It's all the same, Obama and Romney. If you're gonna call one out of touch, say the same for the other.

It's the politics of envy. In an election like this, the left is always going to pillory a rich right-wing candidate, as its a good way of nabbing votes. Although, I find Obama to be slightly hypocritical, given that he's worth a fortune too.

I agree, it's envy for many and aversion to the free market for others. But let's not get ahead of ourselves...in the grand scheme of things, Obama is not THAT rich.
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ajc0918
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« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2012, 01:23:27 pm »
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Romney lack of concern for the middle class and poor Americans make him out of touch, it's not just entirely based on his net worth. Obama also doesn't have offshore bank accounts, multiple mansions.
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Scott
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« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2012, 01:34:45 pm »
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I love this notion that opposition to socialism for wealthy people translates to 'hatred for the rich.'
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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2012, 01:36:58 pm »
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Americans have no problem voting for super rich, aristocratic politicians. In fact, most Presidents have been from that background. We all talk a big game about how we want a regular Joe as President but we rarely elect someone who is truly regular or working class.

That being said, if they are unbelievably rich or well bred, then we at least expect them to have some semblance of normalcy and relatability. Dubya may have been super wealthy but he appeared to be down to earth. He was also more open about his previous struggles like his DUI and drinking problem. All of it made him seem more relatable.

The problem with Romney is not his wealth, upbringing, or business experience, it's more his personality. I haven't witnessed one genuine, human moment from Romney. Every attempt at normalcy seems elaborately choreographed and insincere.

Other people notice it too, which makes Obama's Bain attacks more effective. He acts cold and unfeeling so it's more believable that he also acted that way at Bain.
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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2012, 01:38:54 pm »
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Americans have no problem voting for super rich, aristocratic politicians. In fact, most Presidents have been from that background. We all talk a big game about how we want a regular Joe as President but we rarely elect someone who is truly regular or working class.

That being said, if they are unbelievably rich or well bred, then we at least expect them to have some semblance of normalcy and relatability. Dubya may have been super wealthy but he appeared to be down to earth. He was also more open about his previous struggles like his DUI and drinking problem. All of it made him seem more relatable.

The problem with Romney is not his wealth, upbringing, or business experience, it's more his personality. I haven't witnessed one genuine, human moment from Romney. Every attempt at normalcy seems elaborately choreographed and insincere.

Other people notice it too, which makes Obama's Bain attacks more effective. He acts cold and unfeeling so it's more believable that he also acted that way at Bain.

Unfortunately that's business. From what I've heard Romney sounds like a perfectly decent man.
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« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2012, 01:41:12 pm »
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I love this notion that opposition to socialism for wealthy people translates to 'hatred for the rich.'
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2012, 01:42:54 pm »
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Americans have no problem voting for super rich, aristocratic politicians. In fact, most Presidents have been from that background. We all talk a big game about how we want a regular Joe as President but we rarely elect someone who is truly regular or working class.

That being said, if they are unbelievably rich or well bred, then we at least expect them to have some semblance of normalcy and relatability. Dubya may have been super wealthy but he appeared to be down to earth. He was also more open about his previous struggles like his DUI and drinking problem. All of it made him seem more relatable.

The problem with Romney is not his wealth, upbringing, or business experience, it's more his personality. I haven't witnessed one genuine, human moment from Romney. Every attempt at normalcy seems elaborately choreographed and insincere.

Other people notice it too, which makes Obama's Bain attacks more effective. He acts cold and unfeeling so it's more believable that he also acted that way at Bain.

Unfortunately that's business. From what I've heard Romney sounds like a perfectly decent man.

Yes, you're right, that's business. But name the last time Americans wanted a cold, unfeeling corporate guy to be their president?
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Reaganfan
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2012, 01:49:05 pm »
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Americans have no problem voting for super rich, aristocratic politicians. In fact, most Presidents have been from that background. We all talk a big game about how we want a regular Joe as President but we rarely elect someone who is truly regular or working class.

That being said, if they are unbelievably rich or well bred, then we at least expect them to have some semblance of normalcy and relatability. Dubya may have been super wealthy but he appeared to be down to earth. He was also more open about his previous struggles like his DUI and drinking problem. All of it made him seem more relatable.

The problem with Romney is not his wealth, upbringing, or business experience, it's more his personality. I haven't witnessed one genuine, human moment from Romney. Every attempt at normalcy seems elaborately choreographed and insincere.

Other people notice it too, which makes Obama's Bain attacks more effective. He acts cold and unfeeling so it's more believable that he also acted that way at Bain.

Unfortunately that's business. From what I've heard Romney sounds like a perfectly decent man.

Yes, you're right, that's business. But name the last time Americans wanted a cold, unfeeling corporate guy to be their president?

Isn't Obama just as cold and unfeeling, though? Seriously....he's just as much a bore.
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cope1989
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« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2012, 02:00:30 pm »
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Americans have no problem voting for super rich, aristocratic politicians. In fact, most Presidents have been from that background. We all talk a big game about how we want a regular Joe as President but we rarely elect someone who is truly regular or working class.

That being said, if they are unbelievably rich or well bred, then we at least expect them to have some semblance of normalcy and relatability. Dubya may have been super wealthy but he appeared to be down to earth. He was also more open about his previous struggles like his DUI and drinking problem. All of it made him seem more relatable.

The problem with Romney is not his wealth, upbringing, or business experience, it's more his personality. I haven't witnessed one genuine, human moment from Romney. Every attempt at normalcy seems elaborately choreographed and insincere.

Other people notice it too, which makes Obama's Bain attacks more effective. He acts cold and unfeeling so it's more believable that he also acted that way at Bain.

Unfortunately that's business. From what I've heard Romney sounds like a perfectly decent man.

Yes, you're right, that's business. But name the last time Americans wanted a cold, unfeeling corporate guy to be their president?

Isn't Obama just as cold and unfeeling, though? Seriously....he's just as much a bore.

Obama consistently scores higher than Romney on compassion, empathy and likeability ratings, so I would say no.
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« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2012, 02:59:52 pm »
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"Successful." If what Bain Capital and similar firms do are considered "success stories" for capitalism, then I shudder to think what a "failure" of capitalism would be.

Naso, Romney is not out of touch because he's super-rich (though that certainly doesn't help matters), or because he came from an elite childhood background (though that doesn't help either). It's because he claims to be a "Man of the People" and yet is a plutocrat who cares more about his own profits and that of others in his class, than he does about public service.

He wants to be President so much, yet he has lived a life that is so unusually privileged and insulated from the "Real World" that it is frankly, impossible for him to connect with "ordinary" people. He wants to be President so much, yet his policies would by any objective measure be disastrous for an already damaged country. And he knows this, and doesn't care.

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whitneyB
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« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2012, 03:19:44 pm »
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Americans have no problem voting for super rich, aristocratic politicians. In fact, most Presidents have been from that background. We all talk a big game about how we want a regular Joe as President but we rarely elect someone who is truly regular or working class.

That being said, if they are unbelievably rich or well bred, then we at least expect them to have some semblance of normalcy and relatability. Dubya may have been super wealthy but he appeared to be down to earth. He was also more open about his previous struggles like his DUI and drinking problem. All of it made him seem more relatable.

The problem with Romney is not his wealth, upbringing, or business experience, it's more his personality. I haven't witnessed one genuine, human moment from Romney. Every attempt at normalcy seems elaborately choreographed and insincere.

Other people notice it too, which makes Obama's Bain attacks more effective. He acts cold and unfeeling so it's more believable that he also acted that way at Bain.

Honestly, this is something that startles me as well. Romney had all these great experiences in his life (prep school, college, etc) yet he seems like the kind of guy that you could never have a beer with. Now this is true (because of the Mormon thing) and I wonder how much his religious upbringing has to do with this. I don't mean to sound prejudiced, I'm just wondering.

Honestly, at the end of the day, I think guys like a President who they could bro-out with, a President they could party with, a President they could pick up sorority girls with, etc.
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2012, 04:16:25 pm »
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classic thread guys
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« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2012, 04:28:01 pm »
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My problem with Romney is that he seems to think he's successful solely from his own hard work, when in reality he was given an extreme head start, from the connections to the money, thanks to his father. His misguided notion that he ( and only himself) was responsible for his substantial wealth shapes his worldview and his politics, and it's delusional.

Liberals have no issues with people who become rich. However, we do dislike people who were born at third base and think they hit a triple.  Nobody is as privileged as Romney has been his entire life, yet I haven't seen him mention that once on the campaign trail.
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« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2012, 04:33:52 pm »
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If Romney is out of touch, then Obama definitely is. Remember, 'the private sector is doing fine'.
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« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2012, 04:40:37 pm »
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Americans have no problem voting for super rich, aristocratic politicians. In fact, most Presidents have been from that background. We all talk a big game about how we want a regular Joe as President but we rarely elect someone who is truly regular or working class.

That being said, if they are unbelievably rich or well bred, then we at least expect them to have some semblance of normalcy and relatability. Dubya may have been super wealthy but he appeared to be down to earth. He was also more open about his previous struggles like his DUI and drinking problem. All of it made him seem more relatable.

The problem with Romney is not his wealth, upbringing, or business experience, it's more his personality. I haven't witnessed one genuine, human moment from Romney. Every attempt at normalcy seems elaborately choreographed and insincere.

Other people notice it too, which makes Obama's Bain attacks more effective. He acts cold and unfeeling so it's more believable that he also acted that way at Bain.

Unfortunately that's business. From what I've heard Romney sounds like a perfectly decent man.

Yes, you're right, that's business. But name the last time Americans wanted a cold, unfeeling corporate guy to be their president?

Isn't Obama just as cold and unfeeling, though? Seriously....he's just as much a bore.

Obama can be emotionally distant and aloof, but he nevertheless consistently comes across as a human being with a distinct personality.
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« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2012, 04:51:14 pm »
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If Romney is out of touch, then Obama definitely is. Remember, 'the private sector is doing fine'.

It's pretty much impossible to compare President Obama's upbringing to Mitt Romney's without being intentionally obtuse. And there's also that small, insignificant detail that President Obama is black..
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« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2012, 04:56:10 pm »
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Well, with such quotes as "I'm not concerned about the very poor" during a recession....
(Yes, I know the rest of the quote)
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« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2012, 08:40:19 pm »
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If Romney is out of touch, then Obama definitely is. Remember, 'the private sector is doing fine'.

It's pretty much impossible to compare President Obama's upbringing to Mitt Romney's without being intentionally obtuse. And there's also that small, insignificant detail that President Obama is black..

Playing the race card?
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« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2012, 08:56:29 pm »
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If Romney is out of touch, then Obama definitely is. Remember, 'the private sector is doing fine'.

It's pretty much impossible to compare President Obama's upbringing to Mitt Romney's without being intentionally obtuse. And there's also that small, insignificant detail that President Obama is black..

Playing the race card?

Just telling the cold, hard truth.
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« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2012, 10:25:13 pm »
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ChrisfromNJ is back?

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« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2012, 07:03:51 am »
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If Romney is out of touch, then Obama definitely is. Remember, 'the private sector is doing fine'.

It's pretty much impossible to compare President Obama's upbringing to Mitt Romney's without being intentionally obtuse. And there's also that small, insignificant detail that President Obama is black..

Although Obama is indeed from a far plainer background than Romney, I would hardly call his upbringing a struggle. His family was modestly well to do, so differences between Obama's and Romney's opportunities pale into insignificance.

Also one point, whereas Romney worked in the Private Sector for 25 years, and proved a highly competent and effective businessman, as well as serving a key role in his Church, and being elected Governor of a State, Obama's resume includes 3 years as a community organiser, and a short period spent as a lecturer, followed by 8 years as a state senator, where he accomplished little, and 4 years as a US Senator, in which he spent most of his time campaigning for President.

The fact is, I would say Romney has probably worked harder and accomplished more in his lifetime than Obama. Finally, I would also add that Romney does care about the less well off, but doesn't wear it on his sleave.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 11:15:00 am by BlueDog Bumble »Logged

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« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2012, 11:03:28 am »
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I'm going to stipulate that both Romney and Obama have accomplished far more than anyone on this forum.  Romney has been a successful investor and the Governor of a state.  Obama is the president of the United States--at that point, it's kind of hard to credibly knock someone's achievements.

Both men have good families and have played very important roles in their communities, so they're probably both caring people on many levels.  Obama can be cold and aloof, but also very sympathetic and connected.  Romney seems to be a basically good person.

But, I must admit, one thing Romney does seem kind of clueless about is the "wealth" question.  Someone who was really "in touch," it seems to me, would realize that this recurring question is actually not about that, it's not a sign that people envy him or begrudge success or something.  Voters cast ballots for wealthy candidates all the time, after all.  It's really a question about whether his background and experience have enabled him to understand the challenges facing the middle class and poor.  He is campaigning to the president of every economic class in the country, and, precisely because he so rarely wears his concern for people on his sleeve, that worry, he should understand, isn't so unreasonable coming from someone else's perspective.  I give him the benefit of the doubt on it, mostly because of the part he played in creating the Massachusetts health care plan--I give him considerable credit for that, surely.  But his canned blather in response to that question does strike me as a red flag--it bugs me.   
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