California High-Speed Rail Thread

[Frodo]

Ballot measure that could have derailed the bullet train project is put on hold

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High-speed rail support hovers above majority, but possible detours loom

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Go to page 13 of that poll I linked to. 

[dead0man]

I know most of us would rather the govt keep throwing money down the drain, Elon Musk is moving forward with his idea.

link

[MasterJedi]

I know most of us would rather the govt keep throwing money down the drain, Elon Musk is moving forward with his idea.

link

So how long until it turns in to him begging the government to pay for most of it?

I'd stick with the bullet train, costs more but it's proven and after Musk gets board it'll still have funding.

[dead0man]

link-LA Times

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meanwhile

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[Green Line]

Hyperloop sounds scary and so easy to sabotage.  I would never get in one of those.

[dead0man]

News that will only shock people on the left

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who knew?  Oh yeah, everybody.  Sure, most of the money will be going into the pockets of rich guys, but those dozens of temporary jobs will make it totally worth the $100B price tag.  Clearly we need more govt run mass transit.

[pikachu]

News that will only shock people on the left

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who knew?  Oh yeah, everybody.  Sure, most of the money will be going into the pockets of rich guys, but those dozens of temporary jobs will make it totally worth the $100B price tag.  Clearly we need more govt run mass transit.

We do, especially in California! That being said, HSR linking SF and LA was obviously always going to be a mess, and I think HSR advocates made a big mistake by not starting off with easier routes like LA to San Diego or LA to Vegas. Both would've taken less time and been massive successes, which could've made people more tolerant of state-wide HSR.

Also, LOL at thinking Hyperloop (or anything else Elon Must is going to do) wouldn't have eventually required state funding or ran into similar issues.

[dead0man]

We'll see I guess.

Why do you think they went with the "mess" first if it the other, "easier" routes were obvious?

With the recent financial disaster we all ignored that was the DC's trolly system ($200M so 3000 can go up and down one street for free), when was the last good example of American mass transit?  Perhaps I only hear about the ...ahem....train wrecks because of my choices in news.

[Ban my account ffs!]

The only think that bothers me more than the incredible cost overruns and mind numbing drawn out process of building mass transit systems in this country... are people that think we can just get by with buses and cars... even though they don't live in a city and never take the bus.  Ever.

The problem with buses is that they get stuck in traffic.  They're loud.  They are subject to the poor maintenance of the roads.  And they have a stigma... earned or not.

I'm sure we don't need a big old rail transit system in Lincoln, Nebraska Dead0man... but mass transit is one of those things that needs a properly routed network to be successful.  Of course the first tiny leg of a brand new rail transit system is going to be underwhelming and costly.

That said I'm not surprised this is happening in California.  Amtrak is doing the smart thing and buying up trackage as freight railroads reroute or stop using certain sections... and upgrading it so their traditional trains can run 110mph.  They're also upgrading tracks in the Northeast Corridor and new trainsets are already being built to replace the Acela trains.  These trains will initially operate up to 160mph and later at 186mph with increased speed around corners due to the latest tilting technology.

We should be pouring money into the Northeast corridor and expanding it southward down the east coast.  As it stands, Amtrak hopes to reduce the time it takes to get from Washington to New York from just over 3 hours to 96 minutes within 15-20 years.  We could do better than that.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonrabinowitz/2016/08/26/amtraks-acela-express-replacement-arriving-in-2021/#75803fd16257

[Storebought]

Amtrak is really hamstrung by lack of funding, FRC regulations that maim passenger rail service, little cooperation from state transportation departments (CT is notably terrible), antagonism from the Class I railroads, and, yes, poor executive decision making.

I hope this California rail project goes through just to demonstrate to the world that the US is still competent in civil engineering and not completely politically dysfunctional. The same goes for the Gateway rail tunnel under the Hudson.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

This is a wonderful and absolutely necessary project. However, they're shooting themselves in the foot by routing under Pacheco Pass via a 20+ mile long tunnel instead of taking the shorter and cheaper route via Altamont.

[Sestak]

Ugh. Can we somehow kill this?

[Interlocutor is just not there yet]

Back from the dead, this thread!

[pikachu]

We'll see I guess.

Why do you think they went with the "mess" first if it the other, "easier" routes were obvious?

With the recent financial disaster we all ignored that was the DC's trolly system ($200M so 3000 can go up and down one street for free), when was the last good example of American mass transit?  Perhaps I only hear about the ...ahem....train wrecks because of my choices in news.

The DC trolly system was unnecessary, and I think most transit advocates agree.

Anyway, since you asked:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expo_Line_(Los_Angeles_Metro) (Can personally vouch this has been very useful)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Line_(Los_Angeles_Metro)
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2016/08/houston-bus-system-ridership/496313/
https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/10/how-seattle-bucked-a-national-trend-and-got-more-people-to-ride-the-bus/542958/

(I don't follow that much transit news outside of SoCal tbh)

Also, some cities are still enthusiastic about the prospect of spending more on transit. While there's a fair argument that a lot of American transportation spending is wasteful, it's not that the projects are bad, it's that the spending process is deeply inefficient. I mean, if you look at Europe or Korea/Japan, they manage to do it way cheaper than we do.

[Frodo]

And this is right after Governor Newsom had announced he would dramatically truncate the original high speed rail line that would ultimately connect Los Angeles and San Francisco:

Trump administration to cancel $929 million in California high-speed rail funding

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[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Dumb; probably won't happen.

[dead0man]

I don't know if they didn't get the last money or not, but they are asking for another $100B.  link-local

As the state faces economic headwinds, California's mega high-speed rail project between San Francisco to Los Angeles also faces major funding hurdles, the project's CEO Brian Kelly told state lawmakers Tuesday.

Kelly testified in front of the State Senate's Transportation Committee on the High-Speed Rail Authority's updated draft business plan. In Tuesday's hearing, Kelly told lawmakers the project has $28 billion dollars on hand, but noted it was still a few billion dollars short to complete the Central Valley segment between Merced and Bakersfield. Depending on how long the segment takes to finish, it could cost between $32 Billion to $35 Billion. Kelly said the project is hoping to fill the gap with federal funds. That segment of the project is expected to be fully operational between 2030 and 2033, Kelly said.
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Project leaders estimate it will still need an additional $100 billion to finish what voters were originally pitched in 2008: a bullet train that runs between San Francisco and Los Angeles. A timeline on its completion has not been set as the authority waits for environmental clearances for those segments.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

This is dependent on to raising taxes only on people making 200 K or over that don't need tax cuts