Prayer?

[Torie]

Subjective belief is a powerful thing, and no doubt given that, prayer for some has a soothing psychological effect. Just because it does not float my boat, is not going to cause me to be critical of someone because it floats theirs. If it works, go for it.

[Oakvale]

Subjective belief is a powerful thing, and no doubt given that, prayer for some has a soothing psychological effect. Just because it does not float my boat, is not going to cause me to be critical of someone because it floats theirs. If it works, go for it.

Basically this. As long as someone isn't putting off going to the hospital because they're counting on prayer or something, it's pretty much harmless, and makes the person doing the praying feel like they're helping.

[anvi]

I'm not a believer anymore, of course, but I have no criticism of people who want to pray.  I think it helps both them and the person(s) they are praying for in some psychological ways, and even that little help is better than no help at all. 

But actually, one of the best comments I ever heard about prayer was many years ago from a Catholic Franciscan friar who lived in New York named Benedict Groeschel.  Wonderful man; helped run a lot of NYC Franciscan shelters for homeless girls.  He was once trying to get across the idea that he thought prayers should be for praise and not for requests.  He gave a parody of the kind of prayer he was criticizing, which he freely admitted he often made too.  A close paraphrase of this parody goes something like this:

"Dear God, I know that you are both infinitely wise and infinitely powerful, that you are the perfection of goodness and the Lord of Creation, that you know me and intend what is best for me far better than I could ever know or intend what is best for myself....but could I make a little suggestion?"

[Joe Republic]

A person who prays for someone else in a serious way has to make an effort; he/she devotes time to the other person and has to concentrate and focus on that person. A serious prayer requires dedication and compassion for another person.

And what does that actually achieve?

Are dedication and compassion for someone worthless to them?

Telling a person you're going to ask some spirit (or whatever 'God' is meant to be these days) to intervene in their predicament would be rather unhelpful and pointless, yes.  If what you mean to say is a simple "I'll be thinking of you", then just say so.

[Joe Republic]

For instance last year I was in Chicago at a Jesus Culture Conference. The final day of that conference it was like I was a walking prayer bullseye. The food court in the Target close by looked like a revival meeting with young people strewn across the floor because the presence of God came in to the area. Needless to say I didn't have lunch that afternoon iirc because I was one of the young people strewn on the floor. That was just the beginning of that wild day.

That was the most bizarre string of tortured syntax I have read all week.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

A person who prays for someone else in a serious way has to make an effort; he/she devotes time to the other person and has to concentrate and focus on that person. A serious prayer requires dedication and compassion for another person.

And what does that actually achieve?

Are dedication and compassion for someone worthless to them?

Telling a person you're going to ask some spirit (or whatever 'God' is meant to be these days) to intervene in their predicament would be rather unhelpful and pointless, yes.  If what you mean to say is a simple "I'll be thinking of you", then just say so.

I wasn't talking about telling someone anything.

[Joe Republic]

So then what on earth is the point?!  You talk about expressing dedication and compassion for a person in need, but not in a way that they even know about it?  Indirect financial assistance or voluntary work I could certainly understand, but that's not what 'prayer' is.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

So then what on earth is the point?!  You talk about expressing dedication and compassion for a person in need, but not in a way that they even know about it?  Indirect financial assistance or voluntary work I could certainly understand, but that's not what 'prayer' is.

You can express it without words.  Prayer is its development.

[Joe Republic]

You've really lost me now.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

okay, just consider this again -

A person who prays for someone else in a serious way has to make an effort; he/she devotes time to the other person and has to concentrate and focus on that person. A serious prayer requires dedication and compassion for another person.

Can you see how this might make a difference in how someone responds to a person in need?

[Joe Republic]

Okay, so what comes after the prayer?  Something actually useful?

[Penelope]

I believe everything about what will happen in our lives is already set in stone--we just think we've got free will (and that illusion is good enough for me). So to me, prayer more of a comfort thing.

lol predestination.

Predestination is scary. Specifically, if predestination is true, then what's the point of religious people attempting to convert others? Well actually if that's the case, and it has already been decided who is going to heaven or hell, then what's the point of any of this?

Anyway, I'm not a believer but prayer does seem to help people and make them feel better. Never helped me out, but if helps them then they ought to go for it. Whatever works.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I believe everything about what will happen in our lives is already set in stone--we just think we've got free will (and that illusion is good enough for me). So to me, prayer more of a comfort thing.

lol predestination.

Predestination is scary. Specifically, if predestination is true, then what's the point of religious people attempting to convert others? Well actually if that's the case, and it has already been decided who is going to heaven or hell, then what's the point of any of this?

Well, the believer of predestination (i.e., myself) would argue that such an action would be a way through which God could carry out his work. That person still needs to believe in God to go to heaven--while God would know he'd eventually come around, God's way of achieving that turn might be through someone else.

To me, predestination makes sense in the context of God. If you've got a power that knows everything, sees everything, and controls everything, how could it possibly be that he wouldn't know the future?

[ask_not]

only if you believe.

[Torie]

I believe everything about what will happen in our lives is already set in stone--we just think we've got free will (and that illusion is good enough for me). So to me, prayer more of a comfort thing.

lol predestination.

Predestination is scary. Specifically, if predestination is true, then what's the point of religious people attempting to convert others? Well actually if that's the case, and it has already been decided who is going to heaven or hell, then what's the point of any of this?

Anyway, I'm not a believer but prayer does seem to help people and make them feel better. Never helped me out, but if helps them then they ought to go for it. Whatever works.

If you embrace Calvinism, and then get rich (a sign that God loves you), that is advance notice of where you will probably end up after you're dead. We all love hints about what the future holds. I hope that helps.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

I would argue that it seems to bring some level of comfort for the person who's praying, and I tend to believe it has something very much to do with the biology of our brains.  I think there is a natural high that one gets from it.  I prayed at times when I was suffering from anxiety and existential fear in my mid-teen years, and it did... something.  Not something I can quantify and it's not something that solved anything for me.  A fleeting moment, but I was not thinking straight at the time so I could never replicate it now and tell you what it felt like.  It's a strange thing and it's one act that only human beings engage in and I find the effects it has to be an interesting part of human psychology. 

That said, I do not think we should be praying for a solution to a problem in lieu of action to solve said problem.  In conjunction with?  Whatever floats your boat. 

[patrick1]

I would argue that it seems to bring some level of comfort for the person who's praying, and I tend to believe it has something very much to do with the biology of our brains.  I think there is a natural high that one gets from it.  I prayed at times when I was suffering from anxiety and existential fear in my mid-teen years, and it did... something.  Not something I can quantify and it's not something that solved anything for me.  A fleeting moment, but I was not thinking straight at the time so I could never replicate it now and tell you what it felt like.  It's a strange thing and it's one act that only human beings engage in and I find the effects it has to be an interesting part of human psychology. 

That said, I do not think we should be praying for a solution to a problem in lieu of action to solve said problem.  In conjunction with?  Whatever floats your boat. 

Meditation and/or a deep state prayer have been shown to increase your serotonin and dopamine levels.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

I would argue that it seems to bring some level of comfort for the person who's praying, and I tend to believe it has something very much to do with the biology of our brains.  I think there is a natural high that one gets from it.  I prayed at times when I was suffering from anxiety and existential fear in my mid-teen years, and it did... something.  Not something I can quantify and it's not something that solved anything for me.  A fleeting moment, but I was not thinking straight at the time so I could never replicate it now and tell you what it felt like.  It's a strange thing and it's one act that only human beings engage in and I find the effects it has to be an interesting part of human psychology. 

That said, I do not think we should be praying for a solution to a problem in lieu of action to solve said problem.  In conjunction with?  Whatever floats your boat. 

Meditation and/or a deep state prayer have been shown to increase your serotonin and dopamine levels.

I thought so, but I hadn't done too much research on it. 

[afleitch]

I would argue that it seems to bring some level of comfort for the person who's praying, and I tend to believe it has something very much to do with the biology of our brains.  I think there is a natural high that one gets from it.  I prayed at times when I was suffering from anxiety and existential fear in my mid-teen years, and it did... something.  Not something I can quantify and it's not something that solved anything for me.  A fleeting moment, but I was not thinking straight at the time so I could never replicate it now and tell you what it felt like.  It's a strange thing and it's one act that only human beings engage in and I find the effects it has to be an interesting part of human psychology. 

That said, I do not think we should be praying for a solution to a problem in lieu of action to solve said problem.  In conjunction with?  Whatever floats your boat. 

Meditation and/or a deep state prayer have been shown to increase your serotonin and dopamine levels.

Yes it does. Note that it's meditation and prayer, prayer being a form of self meditation and that the effects are the same regardless of who (which god) is being prayed to. The evidence is that prayer benefits the person praying, but not the person prayed for.