When will Israel ever be an issue?
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  When will Israel ever be an issue?
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Author Topic: When will Israel ever be an issue?  (Read 4868 times)
Dereich
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« Reply #50 on: July 06, 2012, 10:38:38 AM »

Ah I thought someone would bring this old chestnut of the Israel-Apartheid analogy up. Unlike in South Africa under apartheid, Arabs have always had the vote and the right to sit in the Knesset. Its restrictions on Palestinian movement into Israel are highly sensible security wise. Really I think this is a hugely overblown analysis of the situation. Also one that is perpertrated by people who are mainly on the left-wing of politics, like Jimmy Carter (whose foreign policy based upon "human rights" allowed for the coming to power of Ayatollah Khomenei, Robert Mugabe and the Sandinistas).

Israel certainly treats its citizens different based on their religions, but nowhere near apartheid levels. There are well documented examples of the Israeli government giving preferential treatment to Jewish holy sites over the holy sites of other religions, being slow to react to anti-Arab hate speech and violence, having laws like the 'Citizenship and Entry into Israel Law' which disproportionately affect those of Arab birth, and quasi-governmental organizations like the Jewish National Fund which only sells land to Jews. Some of this is understandable, as Israel is set up specifically as a Jewish state, but the question of how much discrimination is too much in a democratic country is still an issue.

Now, the occupied terriories on the other hand are pretty easy to compare to apartheid. They have a different criminal justice system for Israelis and Palestinians in the occupied territories which gives harsher sentences to Palestinians, has extensive well built roads and other kinds of infrastructure only Israelis can use while at the same time maintaining severe restrictions to Palestinian movement, and create Israeli enclaves which are guarded by the IDF which Palestinians are kept out of (see the whole Hebron mess).
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BlueDog Bumble
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« Reply #51 on: July 06, 2012, 11:48:14 AM »

Also one that is perpertrated by people who are mainly on the left-wing of politics, like Jimmy Carter (whose foreign policy based upon "human rights" allowed for the coming to power of Ayatollah Khomenei, Robert Mugabe and the Sandinistas).

Because Muhammad Reza Pahlavi, Ian Smith, and Anastasio Somoza were such better options than those three.  Right.

They certainly weren't ideal options, but they were better than what those countries ended up with.
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Free Palestine
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« Reply #52 on: July 06, 2012, 12:28:23 PM »

(whose foreign policy based upon "human rights" allowed for the coming to power of Ayatollah Khomenei, Robert Mugabe and the Sandinistas).

I don't know about the others, but I think it was previous presidents' foreign policies that led to Ayatollah Khomenei.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #53 on: July 06, 2012, 02:28:46 PM »

(whose foreign policy based upon "human rights" allowed for the coming to power of Ayatollah Khomenei, Robert Mugabe and the Sandinistas).

I don't know about the others, but I think it was previous presidents' foreign policies that led to Ayatollah Khomenei.

Blaming Khomeini's rise on Operation AJAX is a gross oversimplification and a clear example of Anglo/US-centric historicization that completely ignores Iranian domestic politics and political developments except when they can be contextualized as part of the Cold War.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #54 on: July 06, 2012, 04:50:16 PM »
« Edited: July 06, 2012, 04:54:50 PM by MechaCajun »

I can't understand how a supporter of non-interventionism can be so adamant about the affairs of other nations.  Don't non-interventionists usually stand for staying out of the issues of other nations?

Fixed.

With that said, we shouldn't be sending US Dollars to Israel or other nations.  They can defend themselves blah blah blah.

However, I don't understand how people lose sleep over this.
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Donerail
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« Reply #55 on: July 06, 2012, 05:22:38 PM »

Also one that is perpertrated by people who are mainly on the left-wing of politics, like Jimmy Carter (whose foreign policy based upon "human rights" allowed for the coming to power of Ayatollah Khomenei, Robert Mugabe and the Sandinistas).

Because Muhammad Reza Pahlavi, Ian Smith, and Anastasio Somoza were such better options than those three.  Right.

There was someone who thought Smith was a much better option, but he's been banned.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #56 on: July 08, 2012, 10:31:45 AM »

Ernest: he could also dye his skin to help us with our racial disparity.
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