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Author Topic: Ark. Dems Blocking Seating of Wolfe Delegates Due to Affirmative Action Quotas  (Read 1216 times)
WhyteRain
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« on: July 09, 2012, 03:46:49 pm »
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The Arkansas Democratic party is denying presidential candidate John Wolfe the delegates he earned in the state's primary because Wolfe's selected delegates fail to meet the party's standards for diversity. Wolfe is suing the party to seat his delegates after he won over 40 percent of the vote against President Barack Obama in the Arkansas Democratic primary in May. The New Orleans Times-Picayune reports:

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The Arkansas Party denied Wolfe delegates because he failed to file a delegate selection plan committing to "assist the Arkansas Democratic Party in meeting demographic representation goals reflected in the Affirmative Action Plan." The state party's goals are that the national convention delegation be 23.7 percent African-America, 9 percent Hispanic, 1.35 percent Native-American, 1.95 percent Asian-American and Pacific Islander, 23.5 percent seniors, 7.8 percent Arkansans with disabilities, 5.8 percent lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender, 12.7 percent young Democrats and 7.8 percent veterans.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/ark-dems-blocking-seating-wolfe-delegates-due-affirmative-action-quotas_648298.html

What I want to know is:  Do other state parties have these quotas, too, and, if so, where can I find a list of them?
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argentarius
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2012, 03:59:27 pm »
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That quota system is mindblowing.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2012, 04:00:57 pm »
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Really?
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« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2012, 04:03:29 pm »
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Never been a fan of quotas.

I wasn't aware that Arkansas requires the campaigns to provide their delegation plan.  I just assumed that those were selected by the state convention.
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2012, 04:18:41 pm »

Quotas (or at least affirmative action at a level that basically amounts to quotas) are imposed by the DNC, and apply to all states, though I think the individual states have leeway in terms of how they're implemented.  This has been the case since the 1970s:

http://edition.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/conventions/chicago/facts/rules/index.shtml

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A commission headed by Sen. George McGovern produced a set of guidelines in 1972 requiring delegates to "fairly reflect" their state's preferences among presidential candidates. In addition, the makeup of each delegation had to be "in reasonable relationship" to the proportion of minority groups, women and young people in its home state.
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2012, 04:27:24 pm »
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Quotas (or at least affirmative action at a level that basically amounts to quotas) are imposed by the DNC, and apply to all states, though I think the individual states have leeway in terms of how they're implemented.  This has been the case since the 1970s:

http://edition.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/conventions/chicago/facts/rules/index.shtml

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A commission headed by Sen. George McGovern produced a set of guidelines in 1972 requiring delegates to "fairly reflect" their state's preferences among presidential candidates. In addition, the makeup of each delegation had to be "in reasonable relationship" to the proportion of minority groups, women and young people in its home state.


I just added up the quotas:  If you don't belong to one of the preferred groups -- that is, if you are white, English-speaking, satisfactorily functioning heterosexual, without a sex-change operation, middle-aged, non-veteran -- in other words, probably a majority of Arkansas voters -- YOUR quota is ...

6.4%

And that's for both men AND women.  The only quota I see for women is the "lesbian" one that's rolled in among the other sexual ... exotics.

So, has anyone found where we can learn about the quotas of OTHER state parties -- Democratic, Republican or otherwise?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 04:34:35 pm by WhyteRain »Logged
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2012, 04:59:18 pm »
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You can't just add up the quotas like that and subtract from 100 because many people fit multiple categories.
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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2012, 05:04:47 pm »

So, has anyone found where we can learn about the quotas of OTHER state parties -- Democratic, Republican or otherwise?

Like I said, every state has similar quotas for DNC delegates.  The passage I quoted from that CNN article was talking about all states, not just Arkansas.  But the individual states have leeway in terms of how it's enforced.  AFAIK, the RNC has no similar quotas.

EDIT: Here's a WSJ story on one guy's ambition to be a DNC delegate from Washington state for example:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121158203883518495.html

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There, his neighbors elected him an Obama delegate to Seattle's 34th Legislative District convention, which in turn elected him an Obama delegate to the state's 7th Congressional District convention.

At that convention, the Obama delegates elected seven Obama delegates to Denver -- three men and four women, to meet party rules that require each delegation to be gender balanced. Mr. Rodgers did not win a spot.

The 37-year-old new-technology tester for Adobe Systems Inc. has one final chance at the state party convention in June, when Washington's 27 at-large delegates will be elected from among a pool of applicants. "It's an all-you-can-eat buffet of democracy," he says, "but I want to see the process through."

The odds are long: The party's big-tent diversity goals reserve six of Washington's convention seats for blacks, 10 for Hispanics, and others for Asian, American-Indian, young, disabled, and gay, lesbian and transgendered Democrats. Any diversity seats that haven't been filled at the congressional-district meeting will be plugged at the state convention.

For Jonathen Kwok, on the other hand, things are looking up. This spring, the 19-year-old University of California at Los Angeles student failed in his run for a seat from his Southern California district. Now he has filed for an at-large seat, identifying himself to the party as young and Asian.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2012, 05:08:55 pm by Mr. Morden »Logged

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« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2012, 05:08:19 pm »
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lol, even if you're a fan of affirmative action in general, you've got to admit those quotas are absurdly specific.
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2012, 05:14:35 pm »
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You can't just add up the quotas like that and subtract from 100 because many people fit multiple categories.

Actually you can do just that and you get a very important piece of information:  

The quota for the unpreferred people -- 6.4%.  That is, assuming two key things -- first that there is no "overlap" -- there are no black Spanish-speaking lesbians in wheelchairs because they were wounded in Vietnam -- and second that the quotas for all the preferred groups are MAXIMUMS and not MINIMUMS.  If there is a lot of overlap, the then number will go above 6.4%.  On the other hand, if some of the quotas for the preferred groups are exceeded, then the number of unpreferreds will be less than 6.4%

Any way, do you know where we can find the diversity quotas for other state parties?  

And I'm not here to pick on the Democrats.  I'm also interested in the GOP, the Greens, the Libertarians or any other parties that have these quotas.
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« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2012, 05:38:45 pm »

DNC rules allow candidates to switch out their delegates at-will, for the record. I'm 95% certain this was just the easiest pretext the AR Democratic leadership could find to attempt to force a unanimously Obama delegation and that this requirement could be at least partially waived or loosened if they wanted to.
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2012, 05:42:44 pm »
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DNC rules allow candidates to switch out their delegates at-will, for the record. I'm 95% certain this was just the easiest pretext the AR Democratic leadership could find to attempt to force a unanimously Obama delegation and that this requirement could be at least partially waived or loosened if they wanted to.

Hmmm ... it seems like the Democratic Party is becoming less democratic all the time, doesn't it?
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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2012, 06:19:38 pm »
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DNC rules allow candidates to switch out their delegates at-will, for the record. I'm 95% certain this was just the easiest pretext the AR Democratic leadership could find to attempt to force a unanimously Obama delegation and that this requirement could be at least partially waived or loosened if they wanted to.

Hmmm ... it seems like the Democratic Party is becoming less democratic all the time, doesn't it?
This reminds me of when Democrats were filing lawsuits keeping Ralph Nader off numerous state ballots back in 2004.
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2012, 06:28:15 pm »
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I don't even see why the AR Dems feel the need to go through the trouble.  Who cares if a few delegates vote Wolfe's way?  Obama already has the nomination locked up by a substantial margin in the delegate count.
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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2012, 06:45:57 pm »
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This is really messed up.
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Senator Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2012, 07:04:39 pm »
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This is really messed up.
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« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2012, 07:34:04 pm »
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This is really messed up.

To be honest though; the Republicans will probably do something similar if the Paulites try and pull a fast one at the convention.
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« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2012, 07:41:04 pm »
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I think it's just party politics as usual, I don't think either party would refrain from pulling these little procedural moves to keep from assigning delegates to a minor candidate.
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« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2012, 08:44:56 pm »
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I don't even see why the AR Dems feel the need to go through the trouble.  Who cares if a few delegates vote Wolfe's way?  Obama already has the nomination locked up by a substantial margin in the delegate count.

They want the symbolism of a unanimous vote by the delegates in Charlotte.  It always looks bad when the incumbent President doesn't get that.
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« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2012, 08:49:53 pm »
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I don't even see why the AR Dems feel the need to go through the trouble.  Who cares if a few delegates vote Wolfe's way?  Obama already has the nomination locked up by a substantial margin in the delegate count.

They want the symbolism of a unanimous vote by the delegates in Charlotte.  It always looks bad when the incumbent President doesn't get that.

I guess that makes sense, but I just don't see how that would really impact much come the election.  If anything, all of this delegate nonsense from both parties is just going to polarize them even further.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 12:00:59 am by Senator Scott »Logged



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« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2012, 08:51:21 pm »
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ROFL at both the practice and theory.
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« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2012, 11:00:41 pm »
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DNC rules allow candidates to switch out their delegates at-will, for the record. I'm 95% certain this was just the easiest pretext the AR Democratic leadership could find to attempt to force a unanimously Obama delegation and that this requirement could be at least partially waived or loosened if they wanted to.

Hmmm ... it seems like the Democratic Party is becoming less democratic all the time, doesn't it?

The only thing that matters of the end of the day is winning.
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« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2012, 08:25:05 am »
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DNC rules allow candidates to switch out their delegates at-will, for the record. I'm 95% certain this was just the easiest pretext the AR Democratic leadership could find to attempt to force a unanimously Obama delegation and that this requirement could be at least partially waived or loosened if they wanted to.

Hmmm ... it seems like the Democratic Party is becoming less democratic all the time, doesn't it?

The only thing that matters of the end of the day is winning.

I thought that was the Republican mantra.
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« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2012, 10:29:40 am »

DNC rules allow candidates to switch out their delegates at-will, for the record. I'm 95% certain this was just the easiest pretext the AR Democratic leadership could find to attempt to force a unanimously Obama delegation and that this requirement could be at least partially waived or loosened if they wanted to.

Hmmm ... it seems like the Democratic Party is becoming less democratic all the time, doesn't it?

The only thing that matters of the end of the day is winning.

Charlie Sheen for President!
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« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2012, 08:43:07 pm »
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I found the Diversity Quotas for the Texas Democratic Party:

They add up to 107.5% of the delegates!

http://www.txdemocrats.org/2012/TX_Delegate_Selection_Plan_(Revised).pdf

The quotas for racial exclusion groups alone are 66.0% (and there can't be any "overlap" there), so if you're white the 34.0% left for you is overwhelmed by the other ... categories.  You better be "LGBT" (7.1%), "Disabled" (12.7%), or "Youth" (21.7%) or you can forget it!

This would never be believed if it was a skit on Saturday Night Live -- LOL!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2012, 09:50:34 pm by WhyteRain »Logged
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