Episcopalians set to be first big U.S. church to bless gay marriage

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Does this mean all dioceses will be required to allow same sex marriages?

Does this mean all priests will be required to perform same sex marriages?

No and no, although the overwhelming perception will probably be that for dioceses to not allow them for any of their priests is a huge dick move.

In any case I've read the actual text of the trial liturgy and it's kind of awful, but principally this is a very good move and contrary to what some people might say reasonably thought out theologically. Using the Blessing of a Civil Marriage route for the time being is probably the safest way to go about it.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

I'm not a fan of this, just because I'm against the idea of having a set liturgy for any type of marriage.

But you nevertheless I hope understand the purpose of such in the Episcopal Church, which views marriage as a sacrament? This isn't technically the marriage sacrament itself but it's a way to raise a civil marriage to the level of a sacrament.

(Granted, I agree with you on the subject of this particular liturgy not being particularly well-written, but the House of Bishops amended it to make it a lot better than it was initially. The House of Deputies legal wrangling was a nailbiter but of course turned out to be bullsh**t in the end.)

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Oh and thus it can't be used in states that don't recognize same sex civil marriages? Then it's kind of discriminatory.

It actually can but I'm not sure in what context (it was said that almost every state is expected to have at least one diocese in which it will be in use). I think they decided that it could substitute for a marriage in that situation; in that case the fact of the committed relationship itself I guess would be what's seen as the marriage being blessed. It was for this reason that it's titled something like 'Form for Blessing a Life-Long Committed Relationship' rather than 'Form for Blessing a Civil Marriage (Same-Sex Form)'.

I'm not certain about that though. This isn't meant to be a permanent solution. It's going to be a three-year trial use and then the 78th General Convention is going to decide whether or not to add this to the canons as a form of the marriage sacrament. Believe me, nobody's under any delusion that this is an ideal way to go about it.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

...So they're also being pointlessly bureaucratic about the whole thing. And now you can see why I'm not too excited. It'd be better if they just passed a "We'll recognize and perform all same sex marriages" standard.

That's exactly what they did, using pointlessly bureaucratic language to avoid the problems of changing the canons or the BCP, which can take a while. Anybody who has this ceremony done will be viewed as tantamount to married under the canons. (The chance of the 78th General Convention walking this back is negligible considering how overwhelmingly it passed.)

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Wait... I'm confused... is the Episcopalian church saying this is the sacrament of marriage or just some random blessing?

There's a less clear distinction in Episcopalian theology than in the Roman Catholic Church, but it's tentatively both.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Good for them. Hopefully the Catholic church will follow in their footsteps 2 or 3 popes from now.

You could just convert to Episcopalianism and not have to wait you know...

I'll never formally convert, but I have been going to Episcopal mass with my wife lately.  Good thing I never got around to learning the new Catholic mass ("consubstantial with the Father?" come on...), since now I have a third version to learn.

That said, I don't think there's going to be any gay weddings soon in any kind of church around here, Episcopal or otherwise.  The Episcopal priest who married us actually made alluded to being against gay marriage in a few comments during the premarital counseling, so I'm really curious if he'll be required to perform them under the new rules, or if the entire Mississippi diocese will be able to disallow them.

The latter. It's recommended but, since it's provisional, bishops don't have to try it out just yet.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Good for them! This is what, step three on the hundreds up from religion towards sanity? But hey, a step is a step.

Religion qua religion is neither sane nor insane, and certainly not in a binary with either.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Good for them! This is what, step three on the hundreds up from religion towards sanity? But hey, a step is a step.

Religion qua religion is neither sane nor insane, and certainly not in a binary with either.

That, I suspect, is something we will forever disagree on.

It's all right. Sanity is a constructed concept anyway.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

The Episcopal Church is NOT" the first big U.S. church" to bless same-sex marriages - the United Church of Christ accepted them many years ago. The article even mentions that fact. I really don't see how 1 million is small but 2 million is big.

Good for them. Hopefully the Catholic church will follow in their footsteps 2 or 3 popes from now.

If the Catholic Church ever redefined its sexual morality, it would lose all moral authority, because it defines itself as being infallible. Unlike Protestant denominations, the Catholic Church doesn't have the luxury of being wrong - its very existence is defined as the One True Church.

If the Rome of the future is fine with homosexuality, well I don't understand why anyone would want to join a church that had perpetrated such a monstrous fraud over its flock, and then turned around in the opposite direction. You'll never know what it might do next.

The Roman Catholic Church can and has changed its understanding of moral subjects, it just does so slowly enough that most people don't notice.