don't you wish Jesus were real?

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

No, and I'll have to go with a point my old friend Christopher Hitchens made many times. 

If Jesus the son of God were real, then that would mean that for the entirety of human existence before he appeared about 2,000 years ago, God watched upon endless suffering of early humanity in life and the afterlife (if I'm correct, Jesus preached no salvation without him) with complete indifference.  Then, he decides that the best way to reveal the path to salvation is to brutally sacrifice his son in the desert in front of illiterate, uneducated peasants, far away from the more advanced human societies of the time in the far East. 

It's ridiculous and awful in my opinion. 

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

oakvale pointed out in IRC just tonight how much I should dislike Christopher Hitchens, and he's quite accurate. Though I'll give him credit for the Henry Kissinger thing.

Hitchens does deserve credit in a few areas, but any understanding of the Middle East past or present was never one of them.

Ok... they aren't peasants.  It changes my argument very little. 

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

HockeyDude really hates poor people.  Stunningly so.

What does my opinion whether I'd like the Jesus story to be real or not have ANYTHING to do with poor people?  I'm just making a point that revealing a truth needed for salvation would be better served in a more advanced society at the time. 

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

No, and I'll have to go with a point my old friend Christopher Hitchens made many times. 

If Jesus the son of God were real, then that would mean that for the entirety of human existence before he appeared about 2,000 years ago, God watched upon endless suffering of early humanity in life and the afterlife (if I'm correct, Jesus preached no salvation without him) with complete indifference.  Then, he decides that the best way to reveal the path to salvation is to brutally sacrifice his son in the desert in front of illiterate, uneducated peasants, far away from the more advanced human societies of the time in the far East. 

It's ridiculous and awful in my opinion. 

Doesn't the bible say Jesus' death was decided before God even created the universe?  If so, God didn't "then decide", rather it was decided from the beginning of time. 

Ok, it was all planned out... Every human born before jesus died for humanity's sin is condemned.  Still, what an awful, horrible reality.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

HockeyDude really hates poor people.  Stunningly so.

What does my opinion whether I'd like the Jesus story to be real or not have ANYTHING to do with poor people?  I'm just making a point that revealing a truth needed for salvation would be better served in a more advanced society at the time.  

The problem is your notion that, apparently, urban people are superior the rural, or that the literate to the illiterate.  There are points to be made against Christianity, but a constant slamming of its founders for being impoverished and uneducated (and considering Jesus had knowledge backwards and forwards of the OT scriptures, even that is a questionable premise) comes off as very, very arrogant.  Besides, you'd be hard-pressed to find a theologian in a higher social position in the 50s or 60s of the Common Era than Paul, who was very literate and well-educated and wrote about a third of the NT.  (I'll give you Seneca, but that's about it for that generation).  

Jesus appeared to the Jews because he had to.  The Messiah was to be a descendant of David, to be born in David's hometown of Bethlehem, to be heralded by Elijah, to begin his ministry at the Mount of Olives to come to Jerusalem via donkey, to "suddenly come to his Temple" and purify the priesthood, etc.  Not much time to sail up and down the Yangtze preaching when one has a checklist of Messianic obligations to fulfill.

EDIT: Nathan, you're a sophisticated Christian.  Do you subscribe to the idea of "Heaven" as a place where good people go, or are you an old-school by the book "the dead are sleeping and will awaken and experience resurrection in flesh at the End of Days, New Jerusalem will be on Earth, etc." type?  The former notion is so out of touch with the Scripture it's almost unbelievable.

Constant slamming?  I quoted one thing from Christopher Hitchens.  Whatever.  I never said one people was superior to the other.  That wasn't the point.  The point was it should've been revealed where the information would spread faster to a greater number of people.  You're interpreting my words in the most negative way possible. 

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

No, and I'll have to go with a point my old friend Christopher Hitchens made many times.  

If Jesus the son of God were real, then that would mean that for the entirety of human existence before he appeared about 2,000 years ago, God watched upon endless suffering of early humanity in life and the afterlife (if I'm correct, Jesus preached no salvation without him) with complete indifference. Then, he decides that the best way to reveal the path to salvation is to brutally sacrifice his son in the desert in front of illiterate, uneducated peasants, far away from the more advanced human societies of the time in the far East.  

It's ridiculous and awful in my opinion.  

Doesn't the bible say Jesus' death was decided before God even created the universe?  If so, God didn't "then decide", rather it was decided from the beginning of time.  

Ok, it was all planned out... Every human born before jesus died for humanity's sin is condemned.  Still, what an awful, horrible reality.

Have you seriously never even heard the phrase 'Harrowing of Hell' before? A lot of schools of thought suggest that could have been pretty thorough.

No, I haven't.  Does it make Hell better?  If so.... great... I don't care.  There are millions of other reasons I'd rather the supernatural claims of Christianity and it's founder be untrue.  I used the example that popped into my mind first.  I was under the impression Christ taught that salvation was only attainable through him.  It seems that no matter what widely held view about Christianity I ever bring up around here, I'm somehow wrong.  So please go nuts and tell me how I'm wrong about that one, too.  

EDIT: So Jesus goes to Hell and saves everyone who died before he showed up.  (Christianity's revisions are so stupidly blatant it's almost funny) I'm not a Christian and I have no interest in reading scripture so how would I have known that?  Not mention that those souls still suffered for quite a long time waiting for Jesus to show up, right?  Benefit of the doubt granted... still prefer that Jesus did not exist for a lot of other reasons.

[Starbucks Union Thug HokeyPuck]

People will believe what they want. But I know Jesus was real and if you choose to not believe it, then that's up to you.

I'm legitimately interested, how do you KNOW this?  I have absolutely no way of unequivocally proving the existence of Jesus, and you do not possess mental abilities that I do not.  (and I'm perfectly aware this exact point was raised by Bill Maher and others many times, so there, I'm not taking credit for it)

Is this not an important question in the matter?

EDIT: and are you saying that you know Jesus was real AND the son of god, or are you saying that you just know that a man named Jesus existed?