don't you wish Jesus were real? (user search)
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 27, 2024, 06:41:01 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Discussion
  Religion & Philosophy (Moderator: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.)
  don't you wish Jesus were real? (search mode)
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: don't you wish Jesus were real?  (Read 8051 times)
afleitch
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,861


« on: July 10, 2012, 02:55:59 AM »

He was probably a real figure; but he wasn't what he claimed he was. So nothing to miss really.
Logged
afleitch
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,861


« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2012, 05:17:14 AM »

He was probably a real figure; but he wasn't what he claimed he was. So nothing to miss really.

Much of what we apparently 'know' about him isn't even what he claimed himself, but rather on his behalf by hagiographers over the centuries.

True. There were no doubt dozens of semi-literate prophets and messiahs roaming Judea. We just happen to know either about one, or an amalgamation of others into one.
Logged
afleitch
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,861


« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2012, 06:24:17 AM »

He WAS real!!!  There are numerous independent historical sources that confirm this.  Of course He was real!

He's not only real but He's coming back and quite possibly in all of our lifetimes if not our kids. I know folks don't like me all that much for my opposition to gay marriage but I and my church (not a mega church but a good sized one) oppose it out of love for the individuals involved. I share the gospel with others because I love them.

God doesn't want anyone to perish but all come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9). What Is Tweed trying to say with this thread?

So you oppose gay marriage because you love gay people? You want to deny the right of between 22 and 33 million Americans to marry the person that they love and support because you 'love' them?
Logged
afleitch
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,861


« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2012, 06:24:21 AM »

The problem is your notion that, apparently, urban people are superior the rural, or that the literate to the illiterate.  There are points to be made against Christianity, but a constant slamming of its founders for being impoverished and uneducated (and considering Jesus had knowledge backwards and forwards of the OT scriptures, even that is a questionable premise) comes off as very, very arrogant.  Besides, you'd be hard-pressed to find a theologian in a higher social position in the 50s or 60s of the Common Era than Paul, who was very literate and well-educated and wrote about a third of the NT.  (I'll give you Seneca, but that's about it for that generation).  

Jesus appeared to the Jews because he had to.  The Messiah was to be a descendant of David, to be born in David's hometown of Bethlehem, to be heralded by Elijah, to begin his ministry at the Mount of Olives to come to Jerusalem via donkey, to "suddenly come to his Temple" and purify the priesthood, etc.  Not much time to sail up and down the Yangtze preaching when one has a checklist of Messianic obligations to fulfill.

I think you are being unfair here. What is argued is that Judea at the time of Jesus was relatively 'uneducated' in comparison to the Greeks and Romans to the West, Roman-Egyptians to the south, the Parthians to the east and the Chinese states further east than that. While it was certainly the crossroads of the era, it wasn't an intellectual powerhouse. Secondly, you always have to remember that anything 'Jesus says' is (as it cannot be proven otherwise) is merely attributed to him. It is therefore said he had knowledge of Jewish prophecy, which any potential cadidate for messiah had to know. Jesus' backstory was retroactively padded out to meet the requirements (which of course didn't meet the requirements for the Jews at that time) and the revisions were somewhat overeager; the 'virgin birth' was a bit overzealous for example. All this only matters if you accept the starting point of the Jewish prophecy as the 'truth.'

As for theologians you mention Paul was on par with Seneca and that you'd be hard pressed to find anyone with such prowess at that time. Putting aside non-Greek philosophers that is unfair; Gaius Rufus, Epictetus and others of the Silver Age spring to mind. Furthermore, Paul's background comes entirely from the Acts the historical reliability of which is under question so on what basis is his 'prowess' determined? Gaius Rufus for example argued that women's capacity was as developed as those of men and therefore should be encourgaged to study and participate in theological and philosophical discourse. Paul of course is not as welcoming. Which is the more enlightened view?

Besides, he pilfers from Plato...(ducks) Tongue
Logged
Pages: [1]  
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.026 seconds with 12 queries.