SENATE BILL: The Vice Presidential Reform Amendment of 2012 (Failed)

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Keep in mind that the VP determines his own involvement with regards to running the Senate. The Constitution provides that the VP do the job and the PPT's power is entirely derived and delegated from the VP.

The problem isn't as much about ability, as it is willingness to engage and communicate with the PPT to stay involved. Kalwejt typically does more than most VP's, atleast judging by his past times holding that position.

Well, personally, I would say that Tmth was very active in his job as VP last time, but his role was still very limited in Senate affairs and the PPT usually has complete autonomy in running the Senate.  Designating the full powers of a Senator to the VP only adds another person to the legislative process and makes the position itself more important to the game.

No one can deny Tmthforu's superb performance in office, while my first term as Vice President was hardly an example.

Personally, I'd prefer to eliminate Senate Presidency for Vice President and removing "pro tempore" from PPT's title. I'm not wild about mixing executive branch with legislative and, at least now, Vice President is actually an active part of the cabinet. I think making it permanent would be better reform than giving the Vice President a vote in the Senate.

But I enjoy making the VP's life as miserable as possible.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Hearing no objection, Amendment 50:07 is passed.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

AN AMENDMENT

To reform the position of the Vice President of the Republic of Atlasia by assigning most duties of Senator to it.

Be it enacted by the two-thirds of the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia assembled.

SECTION 1. TITLE

This act may be cited as 'The Vice Presidential Reform Amendment of 2012.'

SECTION 2. CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS

Article 1, section 1, subsection 3 of the Constitution is amended to read:

The Vice President of the Republic of Atlasia shall be the President of the Senate, and considered a regular voting member of the body thereof, but may not assume the position of Dean or President Pro-Tempore, and is prohibited from serving on legislative committees.


Article 1, section 3 of the Constitution is amended to read:

Legislation resulting in a tied vote in the Senate may be forwarded to the people for a vote at the will of the President.  Legislation not forwarded to the people shall be considered unsuccessful.  When tied legislation is referred by the President, the SoFE shall open the voting booth on the nearest Friday at 12:00:00am EST and shall close said both the following Sunday at 11:59:59pm EST.  The referendum question will be: “Shall [name of law, followed by text] be made law?”.  Every citizen will be given the opportunity to vote YES for passage and NO for failure during this time.  Abstentions will not affect the results.  Referred legislation shall automatically become law if voted in favor by the people.

SECTION 3. EFFECTIVENESS

This legislation shall be applicable on the first day of the next executive term.

[Governor Scott]

Keep in mind that the VP determines his own involvement with regards to running the Senate. The Constitution provides that the VP do the job and the PPT's power is entirely derived and delegated from the VP.

The problem isn't as much about ability, as it is willingness to engage and communicate with the PPT to stay involved. Kalwejt typically does more than most VP's, atleast judging by his past times holding that position.

Well, personally, I would say that Tmth was very active in his job as VP last time, but his role was still very limited in Senate affairs and the PPT usually has complete autonomy in running the Senate.  Designating the full powers of a Senator to the VP only adds another person to the legislative process and makes the position itself more important to the game.

Whether or not the PPT has complete autonomy is a decision that the VP makes himself. As I said, the VP could render the PPT a total spectator if he wanted to do so. All of the PPT's power is delegated from that of the VP. Which reminds me, Kalwejt has yet to post a public delegation of authority to me.

When has the VP ever taken control of the Senate himself, though?  At this point, it's seem to have become tradition to delegate all the authority to the PPT, and it would just be logical to make that normal routine.

[Jayhawker]

Keep in mind that the VP determines his own involvement with regards to running the Senate. The Constitution provides that the VP do the job and the PPT's power is entirely derived and delegated from the VP.

The problem isn't as much about ability, as it is willingness to engage and communicate with the PPT to stay involved. Kalwejt typically does more than most VP's, atleast judging by his past times holding that position.

Well, personally, I would say that Tmth was very active in his job as VP last time, but his role was still very limited in Senate affairs and the PPT usually has complete autonomy in running the Senate.  Designating the full powers of a Senator to the VP only adds another person to the legislative process and makes the position itself more important to the game.

Whether or not the PPT has complete autonomy is a decision that the VP makes himself. As I said, the VP could render the PPT a total spectator if he wanted to do so. All of the PPT's power is delegated from that of the VP. Which reminds me, Kalwejt has yet to post a public delegation of authority to me.

When has the VP ever taken control of the Senate himself, though?  At this point, it's seem to become tradition to delegate all the authority to the PPT, and it would just be logical to make that normal routine.

I can't give you an exact time period, but there was a while a couple years ago when VP Bacon King served as PPT for a while, and actually did a very good job. I can't remember the reasoning for why it occurred, even though I was in the Senate at the time.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The VP can never be PPT. BK was a Senator during his time as PPT.


The VP can run the Senate through his job as President of the Senate which happens everytime the Senate starts or when the PPT becomes prematurely vacant. It also can happen as part of a mutual power sharing agreement between the PPT and VP, something which I would very much desire, yet I have never been able to get the VP play ball. Atleast not recently.

[Is JCL in mushy sappy love]

The VP can never be PPT. BK was a Senator during his time as PPT.


The VP can run the Senate through his job as President of the Senate which happens everytime the Senate starts or when the PPT becomes prematurely vacant. It also can happen as part of a mutual power sharing agreement between the PPT and VP, something which I would very much desire, yet I have never been able to get the VP play ball. Atleast not recently.

There are Atlasians amiable to that should they be brought to the VP position.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well, anything more?

[Governor Scott]

I think we can move to a final vote.  If this fails, I still think we should work to reform the VP position.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

AN AMENDMENT

To reform the position of the Vice President of the Republic of Atlasia by assigning most duties of Senator to it.

Be it enacted by the two-thirds of the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia assembled.

SECTION 1. TITLE

This act may be cited as 'The Vice Presidential Reform Amendment of 2012.'

SECTION 2. CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS

Article 1, section 1, subsection 3 of the Constitution is amended to read:

The Vice President of the Republic of Atlasia shall be the President of the Senate, and considered a regular voting member of the body thereof, but may not assume the position of Dean or President Pro-Tempore, and is prohibited from serving on legislative committees.


Article 1, section 3 of the Constitution is amended to read:

Legislation resulting in a tied vote in the Senate may be forwarded to the people for a vote at the will of the President.  Legislation not forwarded to the people shall be considered unsuccessful.  When tied legislation is referred by the President, the SoFE shall open the voting booth on the nearest Friday at 12:00:00am EST and shall close said both the following Sunday at 11:59:59pm EST.  The referendum question will be: “Shall [name of law, followed by text] be made law?”.  Every citizen will be given the opportunity to vote YES for passage and NO for failure during this time.  Abstentions will not affect the results.  Referred legislation shall automatically become law if voted in favor by the people.

SECTION 3. EFFECTIVENESS

This legislation shall be applicable on the first day of the next executive term.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Senators this bill is now at final vote so please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

[Governor Scott]

Aye.

[Redalgo]

Nay

[Senator Sbane]

Aye.

I also think encouraging even greater ways to involve the voters into the legislative process will make the game more popular. We should expand on this.

[Redalgo]

Oddly enough, that boost in legislative direct democracy was the reason for my vote. O.o

[Governor Scott]

This amendment would boost legislative direct democracy, because it allows the People to have the say on tied votes.

[Redalgo]

My apologies for wording my thoughts poorly but I actually oppose letting the masses have a say in which pieces of legislation pass or fail.

[Senator Napoleon]

Aye.

I also think encouraging even greater ways to involve the voters into the legislative process will make the game more popular. We should expand on this.

In practice it is a failure.

[Senator Sbane]

Aye.

I also think encouraging even greater ways to involve the voters into the legislative process will make the game more popular. We should expand on this.

In practice it is a failure.

What practice? At the regional level you mean?

[Senator Napoleon]

Aye.

I also think encouraging even greater ways to involve the voters into the legislative process will make the game more popular. We should expand on this.

In practice it is a failure.

What practice? At the regional level you mean?

No it works in the Northeast but we've seen how useless the iniative amendment was.

[Big DaddyTX]

Nay

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Only four votes here? WTF?!!!!!!

[TJ in Wisco]

Not sure I like the ties procedure but overall this is better than the status quo, so

Aye

[Senator Clarence]

I have mixed feelings... but believe it will encourage more realistic VP selections. It wouldn't have made much sense for Polnut to choose Tmthforu94 for example if this was in place... Tmthforu94 is a very qualified and very kind individual and this says nothingto that- but they are not ideologically very much in tune. I believe this will be a fine way to make VP selections have more of an impact on the race...



AYE

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Nay, but not without some misgivings. The tie procedure is really pushing me over the edge but I just have too many issues with mixing the branches in this fashion.