SENATE BILL: The Vice Presidential Reform Amendment of 2012 (Failed)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor: Scott

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Scott, as you know, you have 24 hours to advocate for this.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object to the amendment.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I don't think allowing Senators to shirk their duties is a good idea. We elected you to make a decision, abstentions should be disallowed in these circumstances.

I can sympathize with the sentiment, as it is very annoying to have 4-3-3 votes that take up the full vote time and so forth. However, I am weary of restricting voting options.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I have a minor point to make first and that is wouldn't it bet better to refer to this as "The Vice Presidential Reform Amendment of 2012" instead of "Act"? People might get confused. If the bill contained more significant non-amendment portions, then it might make sense.

Could sponsor enlighten me as to the reasoning for referring to it as an "act"?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Keep in mind that the VP determines his own involvement with regards to running the Senate. The Constitution provides that the VP do the job and the PPT's power is entirely derived and delegated from the VP.

The problem isn't as much about ability, as it is willingness to engage and communicate with the PPT to stay involved. Kalwejt typically does more than most VP's, atleast judging by his past times holding that position.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Amendment 50:06 is passed.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I apologize for my lack of activity of late while I was traveling...

Anyway, as for the issue of breaking ties in the Senate if this should pass, Article I specifies that legislation is passed by majority vote:

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I would argue that a tie is not a majority, thus a tied vote would result in the legislation being rejected.

Oh, I didn't realize that.  Would it be much of a problem if we put tied legislation on ballot referendums, though?

Keep in mind that the VP determines his own involvement with regards to running the Senate. The Constitution provides that the VP do the job and the PPT's power is entirely derived and delegated from the VP.

The problem isn't as much about ability, as it is willingness to engage and communicate with the PPT to stay involved. Kalwejt typically does more than most VP's, atleast judging by his past times holding that position.

Well, personally, I would say that Tmth was very active in his job as VP last time, but his role was still very limited in Senate affairs and the PPT usually has complete autonomy in running the Senate.  Designating the full powers of a Senator to the VP only adds another person to the legislative process and makes the position itself more important to the game.

No one can deny Tmthforu's superb performance in office, while my first term as Vice President was hardly an example.

Personally, I'd prefer to eliminate Senate Presidency for Vice President and removing "pro tempore" from PPT's title. I'm not wild about mixing executive branch with legislative and, at least now, Vice President is actually an active part of the cabinet. I think making it permanent would be better reform than giving the Vice President a vote in the Senate.

I don't see how much of a difference that would make, since the VP doesn't have much power in the Senate other than opening PPT votes and breaking ties, from my experience here.  Why do you want to remove the title from the PPT?

The Vice President's official legislative branch title is "President of the Senate". The PPT's official title is "President Pro-Tempore". He wants to make the PPT the same as the position held by the VP, and to reflect that he wants to remove "Pro-Tempore" from the title.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Keep in mind that the VP determines his own involvement with regards to running the Senate. The Constitution provides that the VP do the job and the PPT's power is entirely derived and delegated from the VP.

The problem isn't as much about ability, as it is willingness to engage and communicate with the PPT to stay involved. Kalwejt typically does more than most VP's, atleast judging by his past times holding that position.

Well, personally, I would say that Tmth was very active in his job as VP last time, but his role was still very limited in Senate affairs and the PPT usually has complete autonomy in running the Senate.  Designating the full powers of a Senator to the VP only adds another person to the legislative process and makes the position itself more important to the game.

Whether or not the PPT has complete autonomy is a decision that the VP makes himself. As I said, the VP could render the PPT a total spectator if he wanted to do so. All of the PPT's power is delegated from that of the VP. Which reminds me, Kalwejt has yet to post a public delegation of authority to me.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Keep in mind that the VP determines his own involvement with regards to running the Senate. The Constitution provides that the VP do the job and the PPT's power is entirely derived and delegated from the VP.

The problem isn't as much about ability, as it is willingness to engage and communicate with the PPT to stay involved. Kalwejt typically does more than most VP's, atleast judging by his past times holding that position.

Well, personally, I would say that Tmth was very active in his job as VP last time, but his role was still very limited in Senate affairs and the PPT usually has complete autonomy in running the Senate.  Designating the full powers of a Senator to the VP only adds another person to the legislative process and makes the position itself more important to the game.

No one can deny Tmthforu's superb performance in office, while my first term as Vice President was hardly an example.

Personally, I'd prefer to eliminate Senate Presidency for Vice President and removing "pro tempore" from PPT's title. I'm not wild about mixing executive branch with legislative and, at least now, Vice President is actually an active part of the cabinet. I think making it permanent would be better reform than giving the Vice President a vote in the Senate.

But I enjoy making the VP's life as miserable as possible.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Hearing no objection, Amendment 50:07 is passed.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The VP can never be PPT. BK was a Senator during his time as PPT.


The VP can run the Senate through his job as President of the Senate which happens everytime the Senate starts or when the PPT becomes prematurely vacant. It also can happen as part of a mutual power sharing agreement between the PPT and VP, something which I would very much desire, yet I have never been able to get the VP play ball. Atleast not recently.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well, anything more?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Senators this bill is now at final vote so please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Only four votes here? WTF?!!!!!!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Nay, but not without some misgivings. The tie procedure is really pushing me over the edge but I just have too many issues with mixing the branches in this fashion.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This has three days left. No result can be determined either way at this point until more votes are cast or time expires.


Seatown and Wormyguy haven't yet voted.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Vote on final passage of The Vice Presidential Reform Amendment of 2012:

Aye (5): Ben, Clarence, sbane, Scott, TJ in Cleve
Nay (3): AndrewPA, NC Yankee and Redalgo
Abstain (0):

Didn't Vote (2): Seatown and Wormyguy

With time having expired, the amendment has failed to gain the 2/3rds majority required to pass and thus has failed.