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« on: July 15, 2012, 06:26:06 pm »
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http://politicalwire.com/archives/2012/07/15/conservatives_blast_romney_on_tax_returns.html

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Conservative columnist George Will slammed Mitt Romney on ABC News for failing to fully release information on his tax returns and offshore accounts, saying Romney "must have calculated that there are higher costs in releasing them."

Said Will: "If something's going to come out, get it out in a hurry. I do not know why, given that Mitt Romney knew the day that McCain lost in 2008 that he was going to run for president again that he didn't get all of this out and tidy up some of his offshore accounts and all the rest. The cost of not releasing the returns are clear. Therefore, he must have calculated that there are higher costs in releasing them."

GOP strategist Matthew Dowd had a similar view: "There's obviously something there, because if there was nothing there, he would say, 'Have at it.' So there's obviously something there that compromises what he said in the past about something."

Meanwhile, William Kristol told Fox News: "He should release the tax returns tomorrow. It's crazy. You gotta release six, eight, 10 years of back tax returns. Take the hit for a day or two."

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2012/07/14/quote_of_the_day.html

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"If you have things to hide, then maybe you're doing things wrong. I think you ought to be willing to release everything to the American people."

-- Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley (R), quoted by the AP, calling on Mitt Romney to release his tax returns.

Mitt Romney's tendency to constantly walk into traps like this is hilarious. Whatever he does on this issue, Obama wins. If he continues to not release them, then Obama (and conservatives apparently) continue to hammer him, and he becomes the untrustworthy old millionaire who is hiding something from the American people. If he does release them, then there's obviously something pretty damaging in there, and even if there isn't, Romney's tax returns make the argument for Obama's tax policy and against Willard's.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 06:28:15 pm by Lief »Logged



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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2012, 06:45:50 pm »
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I've heard a theory that there's something embarrassing related to the LDS Church in the tax returns, and that's why Romney is fighting tooth and nail not to reveal them. Hopefully though, it's just plain old Romney-esque absurd levels of wealth and doing odd things with them.
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« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2012, 06:48:52 pm »
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If Obama ultimately wins re-election, I hope he'll write Mitt Romney a thank-you note.  It is the least he can do.   
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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2012, 06:53:45 pm »
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If George Will is saying you should probably release your tax returns, then its probably time.

On a side-note, what a disaster the Romney campaign is... and fully expected so, as he is a terrible candidate.
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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2012, 07:58:10 pm »
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And like Romney, Obama has released 12 years worth. Oh wait, that's George Romney. Mitt has only released 2 years worth.
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« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2012, 08:03:52 pm »
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What's really inexcusable about all of this is that Mitt had to have known this would eventually happen. He was being mentioned as a presidential hopeful as early as 2005, so he's essentially been running for president for at least seven years. You'd think he would have said to himself, "Hey, anything I do financially this year is probably going to have to be released to the public on my tax returns, so I'd better not make any investments that would be a potential political liability! I'd better not keep a bunch of overseas bank accounts either!" He did none of that.

When someone demands that you release a particular document, dragging it out and prolonging it is only going to make it worse. Barack Obama made that mistake with his birth certificate. Rick Perry used his 2010 opponent's refusal to release his tax returns as justification for not doing a televised debate. Politicians need to accept that their entire lives become fair game, for better or worse. If you don't want to reveal something, in the public's mind it has to be because you have something to hide.
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This may come as a surprise, but I do have a strong head on my shoulders and I am very cognizant of what's going on around me.

It wouldn't come as a surprise. It would come as an M. Night Shyamalan-in-his-prime plot twist.
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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2012, 08:08:37 pm »
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If Romney is smart, now is the time to release more tax returns. It's summer, and fewer people are paying attention, and we're still a long way away from the election, with the convention and the VP nomination in between, plus whatever bad economic news is in the pipeline. Plenty of chances, in other words, to recover from whatever hit to his popularity comes from seeing his tax returns.
The longer he lets this fester, the worse it is for him, and the less time he has to recover.
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« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2012, 08:39:47 pm »
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As I've said, no one's going to give a damn how much money Mitt made in 2006 or whatever.  All anyone cares about is "the economy, stupid".

However, if this or any other silly sideshow will prevent Mitt from getting the GOP nomination, I'm all for it.
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« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2012, 08:53:31 pm »
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As I've said, no one's going to give a damn how much money Mitt made in 2006 or whatever.  All anyone cares about is "the economy, stupid".

However, if this or any other silly sideshow will prevent Mitt from getting the GOP nomination, I'm all for it.

What more matters to people is how he made his money. If it came from investments that brought new or improved products and created jobs few have cause for complaint on that. If it comes from taking over viable companies and draining them of assets or loading them with debt for personal gain while initiating mass firings one has something far less acceptable.

But at this I speak of the general election. The Republican National Convention is a done deal unless Mitt Romney releases his delegates and lets people like Gingrich, Perry, and Santorum duke it out.
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« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2012, 08:56:08 pm »
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Mitt Romney is the rightful nominee. And thank God for that. Santorum would've lost in a landslide. And in the off-chance he won, the North would probably secede.
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« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2012, 09:09:31 pm »
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As I've said, no one's going to give a damn how much money Mitt made in 2006 or whatever.  All anyone cares about is "the economy, stupid".

However, if this or any other silly sideshow will prevent Mitt from getting the GOP nomination, I'm all for it.
Clearly, the Romney campaign thinks somebody might give a damn.
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« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2012, 09:16:23 pm »
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As I've said, no one's going to give a damn how much money Mitt made in 2006 or whatever.  All anyone cares about is "the economy, stupid".

However, if this or any other silly sideshow will prevent Mitt from getting the GOP nomination, I'm all for it.

The problem is that by looking like he's hiding something, Romney is MAKING this an issue, and playing into the clear Obama narrative of Romney. Like it or not, this stuff does matter.
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« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2012, 09:21:04 pm »
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He ought to just get it over with!!!
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« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2012, 09:24:10 pm »
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What Polnut said. But this whole thing reminds me of the Elizabeth Warren Native controversy 2 months ago. Everyone was hyperventilating for a full month and she was on the defensive like Romney is now. Plus she didn't even bother with the media. Didn't budge her numbers, nor has this budged Romney's. At least not yet.

My opinion: put out the past 5 years and then shut up about whatever controverses du jour arise in the future. They're shiny objects designed to distract from the economy.
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« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2012, 09:41:26 pm »
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What's really inexcusable about all of this is that Mitt had to have known this would eventually happen. He was being mentioned as a presidential hopeful as early as 2005, so he's essentially been running for president for at least seven years. You'd think he would have said to himself, "Hey, anything I do financially this year is probably going to have to be released to the public on my tax returns, so I'd better not make any investments that would be a potential political liability! I'd better not keep a bunch of overseas bank accounts either!" He did none of that.

When someone demands that you release a particular document, dragging it out and prolonging it is only going to make it worse. Barack Obama made that mistake with his birth certificate. Rick Perry used his 2010 opponent's refusal to release his tax returns as justification for not doing a televised debate. Politicians need to accept that their entire lives become fair game, for better or worse. If you don't want to reveal something, in the public's mind it has to be because you have something to hide.

Thats what makes this even more pathetic, how do you not have answers for the tax/Bain problem?

It really shows you incompetent his team really is,  they have been caught flat-footed on issues that they really should have been ready to answer, Obama going after Mitt on taxes and Bain Capital was predictable......yet this clowns didn't have an answer and may have just allowed Obama to define them.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 09:43:56 pm by Yank2133 »Logged
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« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2012, 10:13:37 pm »
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This could blow up and the longer it goes, the worse it's going to be, particularly because this is what Romney's entire campaign is about...persuading us that he's for the middle class and not the elite 1%, snotty grin, outsourcing executive.  If this goes bad, the race could be over.
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« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2012, 03:44:25 am »
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1) For people saying "All this does is distract from the economy, which is a winning issue for Romney" I say even if Romney was the second coming of Reagan this race would still be close. The unemployment rate has dropped and we're adding jobs. People remember where we were a few years ago and they see a difference. And let's not forget that many who still see the economy as unacceptably weak blame the GOP more so than Obama.

2) On the tax returns: I'm convinced there is some very damning information in them. It's the only reason Romney refuses to release them even among prodding from both parties. It could be bad enough to devastate him campaign, or it might be nothing. The problem with not releasing them is that people can speculate however they want, which doesn't make Romney seem more trustworthy and that is a characteristic he has consistently lacked. People just don't trust him, and that's why Obama is still leading.

3) The Romney campaign is a one trick pony. All they're prepared to talk about is the economy. So when anything else becomes an issue, they have no clue what they're doing. The lack of foresight is killing them.
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« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2012, 09:34:55 am »
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My theory on Romney's bad handling of this tax return business:

I agree with the consensus that he should've known better and been prepared for it.  However, I think a lot of his bad handling of it has to do with deciding to focus on his business experience than his one of governance.  Although Romney did destroy the competition in the primaries, I think it is notable how many times his opponents continually brought up his tenure as Governor of Massachusetts as a negative against him (both in 2008 and in this primary season) to show he can't be trusted with conservative ideals.  Arguably, even up to 2011 he seemed set on going with his political experience (at least that's the impression I got) and a lot of us on this board (myself included) predicted that he would be destroyed in the general election because of his flip flops.  Also, MassCare (or whatever it is called) is pretty much all the ammunition Obama would need to riddle Romney to death come November.

Arguably, Romney probably didn't see using his experience at Bain as a major part of his campaign as it doesn't have that much to do with the political process.  He and his team probably didn't plan for it, like they did trying to defend and make his experience as Mass Governor look good (which seems to have proven to be a very improbable task).  After it became clear that wasn't working, it seems that Mitt finally decided on the one area that the team anticipated people wouldn't find a treasure trove of attacks from: his business and financial career.

Many of us were facepalming at why Romney decided to make his handling of the 2002 Winter Olympics as a major part of his sellability, but in hindsight it makes some sense.  The 2002 Winter Olympics, nobody and their grandmother remembers it.  Athletes who won gold medals there probably don't remember it.  So while "I ran the Olympics" isn't exactly a winning issue, only a very desperate opposition would look for negatives with it.
I imagine this is what Romney mistakenly thought about Bain Capitol at some point.
I should note that in 1994 Ted Kennedy had actually planned and even shot an ad that attacked Romney's tenure at Bain Capitol.  But, after Kennedy crushed Romney in a debate he felt it unnecessary to use the ad, linked here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdYx19temU8

And now Romney's tax returns are being asked for, among other things.  It just doesn't matter how successful Bain Capitol was as long as the narrative of the rich man who fires people and hides things is set by Obama.  This is gutter politics at it's finest, but Romney should've seen it coming.  What he needs to do right now is just stop whining about the dirty nature of the game and just turn over the documents.  It might be nothing, like Obama's birth certificate (which he waited forever to turn over for some reason) or it might be the biggest scandal since Watergate.

The GOP seems to have dug a hole for themselves with Romney as the candidate.  It seems very hard for the man to come up with some sort of experience he has had that can't be turned into something quite negative.  Thanks to Romney's failure campaign Obama might be one of the most disliked presidents to ever win re-election (emphasis), along with Bush Jr.

Romney most likely won't go to jail for anything, but this is still a very bad situation to be in and it won't be better until he releases the forms.  Whether or not the forms have Earth shattering information in them.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 12:36:12 pm by James Badass Monroe »Logged

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« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2012, 01:31:30 pm »
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My theory on Romney's bad handling of this tax return business:

I agree with the consensus that he should've known better and been prepared for it.  However, I think a lot of his bad handling of it has to do with deciding to focus on his business experience than his one of governance.  Although Romney did destroy the competition in the primaries, I think it is notable how many times his opponents continually brought up his tenure as Governor of Massachusetts as a negative against him (both in 2008 and in this primary season) to show he can't be trusted with conservative ideals.  Arguably, even up to 2011 he seemed set on going with his political experience (at least that's the impression I got) and a lot of us on this board (myself included) predicted that he would be destroyed in the general election because of his flip flops.  Also, MassCare (or whatever it is called) is pretty much all the ammunition Obama would need to riddle Romney to death come November.

His business career is extremely important. This is not as if he had a couple years as a linens department manager at a department store before deciding to go to law school or working on the family farm before going into politics. The fellow made huge money and made huge decisions that changed the lives of many people, and apparently not all for the better.

Quote
Arguably, Romney probably didn't see using his experience at Bain as a major part of his campaign as it doesn't have that much to do with the political process.  He and his team probably didn't plan for it, like they did trying to defend and make his experience as Mass Governor look good (which seems to have proven to be a very improbable task).  After it became clear that wasn't working, it seems that Mitt finally decided on the one area that the team anticipated people wouldn't find a treasure trove of attacks from: his business and financial career.

Is money a triviality? Not at that level and with that level of power.

Quote
Many of us were facepalming at why Romney decided to make his handling of the 2002 Winter Olympics as a major part of his sellability, but in hindsight it makes some sense.  The 2002 Winter Olympics, nobody and their grandmother remembers it.  Athletes who won gold medals there probably don't remember it.  So while "I ran the Olympics" isn't exactly a winning issue, only a very desperate opposition would look for negatives with it.
I imagine this is what Romney mistakenly thought about Bain Capitol at some point.
I should note that in 1994 Ted Kennedy had actually planned and even shot an ad that attacked Romney's tenure at Bain Capitol.  But, after Kennedy crushed Romney in a debate he felt it unnecessary to use the ad, linked here:

The Winter Olympics are a huge event -- maybe not as huge as the Summer Games. Those games went well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdYx19temU8

Quote
And now Romney's tax returns are being asked for, among other things.  It just doesn't matter how successful Bain Capitol was as long as the narrative of the rich man who fires people and hides things is set by Obama.  This is gutter politics at it's finest, but Romney should've seen it coming.  What he needs to do right now is just stop whining about the dirty nature of the game and just turn over the documents.  It might be nothing, like Obama's birth certificate (which he waited forever to turn over for some reason) or it might be the biggest scandal since Watergate.

For someone running as a county sheriff everything is relevant -- including one's sex life and business dealings. You don't want a compulsive gambler or someone with the sexual morals of an alley-cat as sheriff. So why should a candidate's business dealings not be open to scrutiny for the Presidency?

Quote
The GOP seems to have dug a hole for themselves with Romney as the candidate.  It seems very hard for the man to come up with some sort of experience he has had that can't be turned into something quite negative.  Thanks to Romney's failure campaign Obama might be one of the most disliked presidents to ever win re-election (emphasis), along with Bush Jr.

Dubya is despised widely for what he did as President. President Obama is despised widely for what he is. 

Quote
Romney most likely won't go to jail for anything, but this is still a very bad situation to be in and it won't be better until he releases the forms.  Whether or not the forms have Earth shattering information in them.

The Obama administration is going to leave him alone. It's bad form to go after political rivals with police surveillance and legal process in a democracy.
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« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2012, 01:56:21 pm »
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And now Romney's tax returns are being asked for, among other things.  It just doesn't matter how successful Bain Capitol was as long as the narrative of the rich man who fires people and hides things is set by Obama.  This is gutter politics at it's finest, but Romney should've seen it coming.  What he needs to do right now is just stop whining about the dirty nature of the game and just turn over the documents.  It might be nothing, like Obama's birth certificate (which he waited forever to turn over for some reason) or it might be the biggest scandal since Watergate.

For someone running as a county sheriff everything is relevant -- including one's sex life and business dealings. You don't want a compulsive gambler or someone with the sexual morals of an alley-cat as sheriff. So why should a candidate's business dealings not be open to scrutiny for the Presidency?
I'm sure you would say the opposite about Rev. Wright or the allegations of Obama doing cocaine.
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The GOP seems to have dug a hole for themselves with Romney as the candidate.  It seems very hard for the man to come up with some sort of experience he has had that can't be turned into something quite negative.  Thanks to Romney's failure campaign Obama might be one of the most disliked presidents to ever win re-election (emphasis), along with Bush Jr.

Dubya is despised widely for what he did as President. President Obama is despised widely for what he is. 
Correction -- Both Bush and Obama are despised widely for what the public perceives they did as President.
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« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2012, 02:04:56 pm »
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My theory on Romney's bad handling of this tax return business:

I agree with the consensus that he should've known better and been prepared for it.  However, I think a lot of his bad handling of it has to do with deciding to focus on his business experience than his one of governance.  Although Romney did destroy the competition in the primaries, I think it is notable how many times his opponents continually brought up his tenure as Governor of Massachusetts as a negative against him (both in 2008 and in this primary season) to show he can't be trusted with conservative ideals.  Arguably, even up to 2011 he seemed set on going with his political experience (at least that's the impression I got) and a lot of us on this board (myself included) predicted that he would be destroyed in the general election because of his flip flops.  Also, MassCare (or whatever it is called) is pretty much all the ammunition Obama would need to riddle Romney to death come November.

His business career is extremely important. This is not as if he had a couple years as a linens department manager at a department store before deciding to go to law school or working on the family farm before going into politics. The fellow made huge money and made huge decisions that changed the lives of many people, and apparently not all for the better.

Quote
Arguably, Romney probably didn't see using his experience at Bain as a major part of his campaign as it doesn't have that much to do with the political process.  He and his team probably didn't plan for it, like they did trying to defend and make his experience as Mass Governor look good (which seems to have proven to be a very improbable task).  After it became clear that wasn't working, it seems that Mitt finally decided on the one area that the team anticipated people wouldn't find a treasure trove of attacks from: his business and financial career.

Is money a triviality? Not at that level and with that level of power.

Quote
Many of us were facepalming at why Romney decided to make his handling of the 2002 Winter Olympics as a major part of his sellability, but in hindsight it makes some sense.  The 2002 Winter Olympics, nobody and their grandmother remembers it.  Athletes who won gold medals there probably don't remember it.  So while "I ran the Olympics" isn't exactly a winning issue, only a very desperate opposition would look for negatives with it.
I imagine this is what Romney mistakenly thought about Bain Capitol at some point.
I should note that in 1994 Ted Kennedy had actually planned and even shot an ad that attacked Romney's tenure at Bain Capitol.  But, after Kennedy crushed Romney in a debate he felt it unnecessary to use the ad, linked here:

The Winter Olympics are a huge event -- maybe not as huge as the Summer Games. Those games went well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdYx19temU8

Quote
And now Romney's tax returns are being asked for, among other things.  It just doesn't matter how successful Bain Capitol was as long as the narrative of the rich man who fires people and hides things is set by Obama.  This is gutter politics at it's finest, but Romney should've seen it coming.  What he needs to do right now is just stop whining about the dirty nature of the game and just turn over the documents.  It might be nothing, like Obama's birth certificate (which he waited forever to turn over for some reason) or it might be the biggest scandal since Watergate.

For someone running as a county sheriff everything is relevant -- including one's sex life and business dealings. You don't want a compulsive gambler or someone with the sexual morals of an alley-cat as sheriff. So why should a candidate's business dealings not be open to scrutiny for the Presidency?

Quote
The GOP seems to have dug a hole for themselves with Romney as the candidate.  It seems very hard for the man to come up with some sort of experience he has had that can't be turned into something quite negative.  Thanks to Romney's failure campaign Obama might be one of the most disliked presidents to ever win re-election (emphasis), along with Bush Jr.

Dubya is despised widely for what he did as President. President Obama is despised widely for what he is.  

Quote
Romney most likely won't go to jail for anything, but this is still a very bad situation to be in and it won't be better until he releases the forms.  Whether or not the forms have Earth shattering information in them.

The Obama administration is going to leave him alone. It's bad form to go after political rivals with police surveillance and legal process in a democracy.

An idiot hack totally misinterprets the point of my post.  Why am I not surprised?

Hey, Sir Idiot, I was contemplating why Romney was incompetent in handling this situation, not necessarily justifying why presidential candidates could decide not to turn in tax returns.  The point is that Romney's strategy of trying to make his epic fail of a Governorship seem somewhat good failed (something he had years to prepare) and the sudden change to a focus on his business career left him and his handlers ill prepared to have a good campaign.

Now, go back to third grade level reading comprehension.  You need more of it.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 02:07:50 pm by James Badass Monroe »Logged

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« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2012, 02:58:32 pm »
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There are two possibilities

1 Romney and his campaign are complete idiots when it comes to politics

2. There is something in his returns that would definitely (or possibly) cost him the election and they are politically astute to know that

I am guessing that it is option 2. Which means that whatever damage not releasing is costing him, they have calculated that releasing them is worse (possibly fatal).
« Last Edit: July 16, 2012, 03:00:05 pm by Likely Voter »Logged

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« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2012, 12:02:52 pm »
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Anne Romney: "We've Given All You People Need To Know" About Tax Returns

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/19/ann-romney_n_1685735.html

Good to know the entitled arrogance runs in the family. Of course you wouldn't expect much better from a woman who the government pays $70,000 a year to own a fancy horse.
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« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2012, 12:18:49 pm »
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This could blow up and the longer it goes, the worse it's going to be, particularly because this is what Romney's entire campaign is about...persuading us that he's for the middle class and not the elite 1%, snotty grin, outsourcing executive.  If this goes bad, the race could be over.

This race is already over.

Anyone with an IQ over 100 knew that Nancy Pelosi's days as Speaker were over when she carried that huge nightstick-like gavel escorted by New Black Panther-wannabes and their microphones and cameras, trying to provoke peaceful protestors.  I recall specifically watching that scene on TV and thinking one word:  "Landslide".

This race ended when Obama was forced by his own party to stop attacking rich Wall Street private equity firms and started attacking small business, mom-and-pop shops.  (Did you notice there were no Cory Bookers or Bill Clintons to defend them?)
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 12:20:56 pm by WhyteRain »Logged
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« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2012, 12:22:59 pm »
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Anne Romney: "We've Given All You People Need To Know" About Tax Returns

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/19/ann-romney_n_1685735.html

Good to know the entitled arrogance runs in the family. Of course you wouldn't expect much better from a woman who the government pays $70,000 a year to own a fancy horse.

Wouldn't it be great if that reckless spending stopped?
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