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Author Topic: Does anyone else really hate this election?  (Read 1837 times)
Sibboleth
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« on: July 21, 2012, 02:03:17 pm »
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A rhetorical question, of course. This is a deeply insipid and uninspiring election. Most people would accept this, I think, and those that think otherwise are the sort of people who are not worth listening to, except for ironic amusement.

Let's take this complaint a little further and wonder why.

Fundamentally, Obama has been a failure as President especially on (oh dear) his own terms. That distinctive agenda of national rebirth through civic liberalism and technocratic reforms is so dead that it isn't even possible to take it even slightly seriously now. He's not been much better in other areas: the various inevitable crises (which have, in fairness, been worse than 'usual') and set-piece political confrontations have essentially exposed him as a vacuous windbag with poor administrative skills and a woeful lack of political nous. Supposedly a 'reformer', Obama's record of 'reform' is hilariously threadbare and all attempts to claim otherwise are products of deluded minds. Unlike most recent Presidents he hasn't been actively harmful, but he's still a joke. A lack of enthusiasm regarding his re-election campaign is therefore inevitable.

Romney is something different. Not so much a pathetic joke as a piece of unpleasant postmodern satire: in every respect (background, policies, hair, pathological lying, the fact that he's an obvious sociopath, etc) he is actually the stock American President from TV thrillers made in all countries that do not fly the Stars and Stripes. Anyone expecting him to achieve anything of non-evil note is deluded and needs to snap out of it, else feel like an absolute numpty (the greatest word given to the world by Scotland) in a few years time. A lack of enthusiasm regarding his election campaign is therefore inevitable.

So far, so predictable. Both candidates suck. Blah, blah, blah. Yet here we (or rather: you. Yet still we, I think... to an extent) are. How on earth is this possible in a country with such strong democratic traditions and such an absolute faith in democracy as a concept?

The answers to that are obvious, of course, but it's still worth posing the question.
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2012, 02:07:31 pm »
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I do too

I heard somewhere a few years ago that an election was the first time so much money was spent to woo so few voters... this election seems to take petty issues to a whole level. I've never seen so many headlines about the horse race of campaigning- who raises more, what the strategy is, etc...-- as opposed to actual issues

I believe 2008 was a great election in that it featured to very dynamic candidates- one who offered hope for the future and inspired many, the other a statesman who had given more to America then nearly any one else alive. This election seems to be between two indistinguishable politicians neither of which inspire any one
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2012, 02:10:09 pm »
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My view: This is the bad sequel to the good movie we all saw four years ago. Due to the cliffhanger ending of Obama being in office, I sat on the edge of my seat for something like three years waiting for this one to come out, only to find a bad cast of protagonists slowly eliminated for a variety of reasons, and when our deeply flawed "hero" goes to fight last movie's victory, it will be a badly shot fight sequence fought by two actors that are poor at doing fight sequences. Hopefully the introduction of a new sidekick (Romney's VP) will liven things up, but I doubt it.
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2012, 02:12:20 pm »
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Al, you're steadily becoming a bad parody of yourself.
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2012, 02:16:50 pm »
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Obviously the only thing that makes Obama deserve re-election in any way is that his opponent is many times worse.
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« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2012, 02:30:14 pm »
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Al, are you sure you aren't being blinded by your own biases? I remember reading an old post of yours a few weeks ago during the 2008 election where you remarked that even the most objective political observers are susceptible to the demographic appeal of certain candidates. Both Obama and Romney are the worst possible candidates for your class as far as profile and rhetoric is concerned.

I'm still too invested in Obama's presidency to lack enthusiasm to return him to office this fall. While he's spectacularly failed on so many issues and spent his first two crucial years in office bumbling around, I still see him as our first truly progressive president since LBJ and his policies are worth fighting. Every once and a while in his speeches, I hear reverberations of 2008 and I feel galvanized to fight in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, a miracle is possible during his second term that will lead to a rapid economic recovery and that through this good will he will be able to accomplish an overhaul of our infrastructure or meager tax reform. That's worth it, I think. It's not inspiring but in comparison to the alternative, it sounds like a utopia.

I'd say there were elections with even less inspiring candidates: 1968, 1988 and 2000 are all great examples.

edit: the fact that I agree with everything you said on Obama but still profess allegiance to him says a lot, I think. If you lived here and had a bigger stake in this election, you might be more inclined to support him.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 02:38:56 pm by TheDeadFlagBlues »Logged



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« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2012, 02:33:27 pm »
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Way too much gloom and doom there, Al, with your quite sweeping - yet devoid of anecdotal examples to attempt to carry some of their weight - statements, but yes I am more in agreement with your hyperbole about Obama than your hyperbole about Romney. Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2012, 02:40:10 pm »
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Al, I don't dispute a single thing you're saying, and I applaud you for actually bothering to say something for once (and it was well said), but the problem is you don't understand America or Americans.  You just don't understand how bad it is.

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« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2012, 02:46:46 pm »
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If I could summarize it I would say it's because the people at the top who ultimately control our government will watch the world burn for their greed and the people at the bottom feel too powerless/apathetic/ignorant to advocate for change. What sits in the middle of those two is no surprise.
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« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2012, 02:54:02 pm »
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I agree that this is a terrible terrible election.
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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2012, 03:25:28 pm »
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Basically, yes.

What I particularly dislike is the argument that since the Congressional lawmaking process's byzantine structure and surplus of veto points make it unreasonable to expect more major change to take place within that process, the right thing to do is to enthusiastically support a party and president that devote all their energy to trying to change things within that same process and basically none to changing it.
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2012, 03:56:19 pm »
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This election is pretty much like every other election this country has had since 1988. It is really ni better or worse than any of the elections that have happened since 1988.
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« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2012, 04:03:18 pm »
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I sympathize with the emotions expressed, of course.
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« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2012, 04:37:06 pm »
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This election is pretty much like every other election this country has had since 1988. It is really ni better or worse than any of the elections that have happened since 1988.

Well it is a heck of a lot better than '88 or '04, in that the Democrat still has a slight edge in the odds.
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« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2012, 04:41:09 pm »
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I gotta say, too much doom and gloom here. 2008 was an extreme anomaly in this country and nobody should have expected it to become the new norm: An extremely competitive and landmark primary season, where the Democrats were fighting to nominate the first African American or female candidate, Sarah Palin breaking the glass ceiling for the GOP and being an extreme lightning rod, and ultimately the election of America's first president of color, all set under the backdrop of an epic and dire recession. No hollywood screen writer could have written it better.

2012 is more of a reversion to the norm- two candidates sniping and trying to smear one another, ultimately attempting to win over the 5-10% or so of voters who aren't in the bag already or are simply too disgusted to vote in the first place. And people wonder why almost half of us don't even bother to show up to the polls.

That being said, I am one of those voters already in the bag. Even though the campaign has unsettled me at times, I still have faith in Obama the man and see him as much more capable and deserving of the presidency, so I will do what I can do to help him out in the fall.

I just think most people have accepted the fact that elections are nothing more than high school popularity contests. The only difference is that this contest, for all its flaws, is incredibly important.
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« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2012, 04:44:40 pm »
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Obama and Romney:  This is what we get when the cultural elite, the self-assured "Masters of the Universe", are equal parts arrogant and ignorant.

I wish for the day when Americans will be little impressed by an Ivy League resume or law school-trained oratory, but most of the commenters here leave me little hope that will change before it's "too late".
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« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2012, 04:52:54 pm »
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I gotta say, too much doom and gloom here. 2008 was an extreme anomaly in this country and nobody should have expected it to become the new norm: An extremely competitive and landmark primary season, where the Democrats were fighting to nominate the first African American or female candidate, Sarah Palin breaking the glass ceiling for the GOP and being an extreme lightning rod, and ultimately the election of America's first president of color, all set under the backdrop of an epic and dire recession. No hollywood screen writer could have written it better.
 

Tribalism -- called by its proponents "Identity Politics".  It forces us to ask -- first and foremost -- "Does the candidate have enough melanin or enough X chromosomes or enough hair or too much fat around the ankles?"

Btw, Obama doesn't have a drop of African-American blood in his body.  Like everything else about him, even his "ethnicity" is pure construction.
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« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2012, 04:55:58 pm »
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A rhetorical question, of course. This is a deeply insipid and uninspiring election. Most people would accept this, I think, and those that think otherwise are the sort of people who are not worth listening to, except for ironic amusement.

Let's take this complaint a little further and wonder why.

Fundamentally, Obama has been a failure as President especially on (oh dear) his own terms. That distinctive agenda of national rebirth through civic liberalism and technocratic reforms is so dead that it isn't even possible to take it even slightly seriously now. He's not been much better in other areas: the various inevitable crises (which have, in fairness, been worse than 'usual') and set-piece political confrontations have essentially exposed him as a vacuous windbag with poor administrative skills and a woeful lack of political nous. Supposedly a 'reformer', Obama's record of 'reform' is hilariously threadbare and all attempts to claim otherwise are products of deluded minds. Unlike most recent Presidents he hasn't been actively harmful, but he's still a joke. A lack of enthusiasm regarding his re-election campaign is therefore inevitable.

Romney is something different. Not so much a pathetic joke as a piece of unpleasant postmodern satire: in every respect (background, policies, hair, pathological lying, the fact that he's an obvious sociopath, etc) he is actually the stock American President from TV thrillers made in all countries that do not fly the Stars and Stripes. Anyone expecting him to achieve anything of non-evil note is deluded and needs to snap out of it, else feel like an absolute numpty (the greatest word given to the world by Scotland) in a few years time. A lack of enthusiasm regarding his election campaign is therefore inevitable.

So far, so predictable. Both candidates suck. Blah, blah, blah. Yet here we (or rather: you. Yet still we, I think... to an extent) are. How on earth is this possible in a country with such strong democratic traditions and such an absolute faith in democracy as a concept?

The answers to that are obvious, of course, but it's still worth posing the question.

Last time I checked, Romney is not an 'obvious sociopath', so unless you A.Have a degree in psychology and B.Have personally evaluated the man, you should refrain from such ugly remarks. He seems to be to be a decent guy that loves his family, however hideous a candidate he is. His public persona has nothing to do with his actual personality, of which we know nothing of.
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« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2012, 05:01:22 pm »
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A rhetorical question, of course. This is a deeply insipid and uninspiring election. Most people would accept this, I think, and those that think otherwise are the sort of people who are not worth listening to, except for ironic amusement.

Let's take this complaint a little further and wonder why.

Fundamentally, Obama has been a failure as President especially on (oh dear) his own terms. That distinctive agenda of national rebirth through civic liberalism and technocratic reforms is so dead that it isn't even possible to take it even slightly seriously now. He's not been much better in other areas: the various inevitable crises (which have, in fairness, been worse than 'usual') and set-piece political confrontations have essentially exposed him as a vacuous windbag with poor administrative skills and a woeful lack of political nous. Supposedly a 'reformer', Obama's record of 'reform' is hilariously threadbare and all attempts to claim otherwise are products of deluded minds. Unlike most recent Presidents he hasn't been actively harmful, but he's still a joke. A lack of enthusiasm regarding his re-election campaign is therefore inevitable.

Romney is something different. Not so much a pathetic joke as a piece of unpleasant postmodern satire: in every respect (background, policies, hair, pathological lying, the fact that he's an obvious sociopath, etc) he is actually the stock American President from TV thrillers made in all countries that do not fly the Stars and Stripes. Anyone expecting him to achieve anything of non-evil note is deluded and needs to snap out of it, else feel like an absolute numpty (the greatest word given to the world by Scotland) in a few years time. A lack of enthusiasm regarding his election campaign is therefore inevitable.

So far, so predictable. Both candidates suck. Blah, blah, blah. Yet here we (or rather: you. Yet still we, I think... to an extent) are. How on earth is this possible in a country with such strong democratic traditions and such an absolute faith in democracy as a concept?

The answers to that are obvious, of course, but it's still worth posing the question.

Last time I checked, Romney is not an 'obvious sociopath', so unless you A.Have a degree in psychology and B.Have personally evaluated the man, you should refrain from such ugly remarks. He seems to be to be a decent guy that loves his family, however hideous a candidate he is. His public persona has nothing to do with his actual personality, of which we know nothing of.

The fact that his public persona doesn't really connect to something that could be an actual personality in any obvious way is itself, I think, somewhat worrying.
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« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2012, 05:03:51 pm »
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A rhetorical question, of course. This is a deeply insipid and uninspiring election. Most people would accept this, I think, and those that think otherwise are the sort of people who are not worth listening to, except for ironic amusement.

Let's take this complaint a little further and wonder why.

Fundamentally, Obama has been a failure as President especially on (oh dear) his own terms. That distinctive agenda of national rebirth through civic liberalism and technocratic reforms is so dead that it isn't even possible to take it even slightly seriously now. He's not been much better in other areas: the various inevitable crises (which have, in fairness, been worse than 'usual') and set-piece political confrontations have essentially exposed him as a vacuous windbag with poor administrative skills and a woeful lack of political nous. Supposedly a 'reformer', Obama's record of 'reform' is hilariously threadbare and all attempts to claim otherwise are products of deluded minds. Unlike most recent Presidents he hasn't been actively harmful, but he's still a joke. A lack of enthusiasm regarding his re-election campaign is therefore inevitable.

Romney is something different. Not so much a pathetic joke as a piece of unpleasant postmodern satire: in every respect (background, policies, hair, pathological lying, the fact that he's an obvious sociopath, etc) he is actually the stock American President from TV thrillers made in all countries that do not fly the Stars and Stripes. Anyone expecting him to achieve anything of non-evil note is deluded and needs to snap out of it, else feel like an absolute numpty (the greatest word given to the world by Scotland) in a few years time. A lack of enthusiasm regarding his election campaign is therefore inevitable.

So far, so predictable. Both candidates suck. Blah, blah, blah. Yet here we (or rather: you. Yet still we, I think... to an extent) are. How on earth is this possible in a country with such strong democratic traditions and such an absolute faith in democracy as a concept?

The answers to that are obvious, of course, but it's still worth posing the question.

Last time I checked, Romney is not an 'obvious sociopath', so unless you A.Have a degree in psychology and B.Have personally evaluated the man, you should refrain from such ugly remarks. He seems to be to be a decent guy that loves his family, however hideous a candidate he is. His public persona has nothing to do with his actual personality, of which we know nothing of.

The fact that his public persona doesn't really connect to something that could be an actual personality in any obvious way is itself, I think, somewhat worrying.

But we don't know anything about his personality behind the curtain, his family described him as a fun, loving person, and while they of course have reasons to say this, I have no reason to call them liars when they know him and I don't. I wouldn't have even had a problem with the post if it wasn't for the "obvious" part.
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« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2012, 05:12:00 pm »
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I find this election boring, bland, and can't wait for it to end.  There isn't much excitement to go crazy about.  It's like any other election post 1988.
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« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2012, 05:26:33 pm »
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How is Obama a failure of a president?  He got PPACA passed, and it wasn't overturned, thus fulfilling a 100-year dream of liberals, guaranteeing universal coverage (except to lazy freeloaders and hyperpartisans who just want to spite him).

For that alone, succeeding where all before him failed, Obama is a resounding success.  Killing bin Laden and overthrowing a dictator in Libya without losing a single American life (contrast with GWB's quagmires) are just icing on the cake.

Even if Obama loses in November, he'll go down as one of the ten best presidents.
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« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2012, 05:44:06 pm »
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I'm not really sure it is wise to make comparsions to the Obama of the 2008 election coverage and Obama now, the 2008 version never struck me as anything other than a particularly unconvincing persona. Trying to be the embodiment of various, rather incoherent notions of 'national redemption' he did not - and could not - ever come across as particularly political (except to those like most on the right for whom the notion of national redemption is anathema, except perhaps in the military sense, "Vietnam war syndrome" and all that). Unfortunately for Obama the particular business of holding power is not like that at all.

But other than that, I'm actually somewhat indifferent to this election which as you said really seems to be more a casting contest for who will get to play the president of the United States in a strange subtitled film rather than a election for that said position. However, at least the Republican primaries were high in entertainment value.
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« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2012, 05:47:16 pm »
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Obama and Romney:  This is what we get when the cultural elite, the self-assured "Masters of the Universe", are equal parts arrogant and ignorant.

I wish for the day when Americans will be little impressed by an Ivy League resume or law school-trained oratory, but most of the commenters here leave me little hope that will change before it's "too late".

Getting kind of personal aren't we?  Tongue

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« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2012, 05:53:18 pm »

I don't hate it, but I'm already paying more attention to the 2016 race than the 2012 one.
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