Home
2012
Election Results
Election Info
Weblog
Wiki
Search
Email
Site Info
Store
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
Did you miss your
activation email?
May 21, 2013, 04:00:58 pm
News:
Cast your ballot in the 2012 Mock Election!
Atlas Forum
General Politics
U.S. General Discussion
(Moderators:
Former Moderate
,
Badger
)
Why is American politics so heated?
« previous
next »
Pages:
[
1
]
2
Author
Topic: Why is American politics so heated? (Read 1219 times)
State Comptroller Atkins
Obamaisdabest
YaBB God
Posts: 7724
Why is American politics so heated?
«
on:
July 21, 2012, 10:11:19 pm »
Seriously. I was just reading through the comments on a number of YouTube videos related to the 2012 election, and at least 80% of them were just mindless insults and personal attacks void of any kind of intellectual rigor.
Then I clicked on some UK political videos and read the comments on those too, and while there was still a decent amount of idiocy, they were on the whole much more respectable and civil.
This seems to be an accurate representation of the broader picture, doesn't it?
Logged
Vosem
YaBB God
Posts: 3797
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #1 on:
July 21, 2012, 10:20:50 pm »
Because one of the key fundamentals of American society is the right to have an opinion and tell everyone about it. I personally applaud this, but this is one of its negative effects. People like that exist in Europe too but they're not the majority like in America. (I'm one of those people, too, but my opinions are (I hope) better thought-out).
Logged
Quote from: Big Wiggly Style on April 13, 2013, 08:47:37 am
oh Vosem, you poor boy...
Quote from: Vosem on January 12, 2013, 05:05:23 pm
Economic score: +4.84
Social score: -6.52
At this rate, I'll lean left economically within a year or so
Fmr. Emperor PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
YaBB God
Posts: 21516
Political Matrix
E: 7.35, S: -4.35
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #2 on:
July 21, 2012, 10:32:26 pm »
There's an attitude in American politics that applauds deeply held convictions (I suppose as a show of loyalty to your cause, or something like that). An easy way to demonstrate these convictions without spending much time developing good arguments is to just insult the opposition. Hence the phenomenon you have witnessed.
Logged
Farewell to a legend:
r
(x,y) != <-y,x>
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=103836.0
© Tweed the Younger
Miamiu1027
YaBB God
Posts: 34286
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #3 on:
July 21, 2012, 11:22:24 pm »
because the ideological differences are infinitesimal so the 'candidates' attack personalities in lieu of an actual debate on issues relevant to the pass of people.
Logged
"If the Constitution means anything, it surely means that the president does not have unreviewable authority to summarily execute any American whom he concludes is an enemy of the state"
registered somewhere in Georgia AFE
CathKhan
Cathcon
YaBB God
Posts: 11034
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #4 on:
July 21, 2012, 11:31:26 pm »
'Cause we're cooler than e'ryone else.
Logged
Quote from: Comrade Shmoo on May 09, 2013, 05:55:25 pm
You are God.
Quote from: OAM on May 15, 2013, 09:18:21 pm
God (R-MI).
1996:
Listen dawg, we got some crazy @$$ sh#t goin' on over here, nawhadahmean? C'mon over!
freepcrusher
YaBB God
Posts: 2055
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #5 on:
July 21, 2012, 11:33:46 pm »
times of economic turmoil causes lots of fingerpointing and scapegoating among the populace and can often lead to experimentation with totalitarian ideology.
Logged
Vosem
YaBB God
Posts: 3797
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #6 on:
July 21, 2012, 11:37:00 pm »
Quote from: freepcrusher on July 21, 2012, 11:33:46 pm
times of economic turmoil causes lots of fingerpointing and scapegoating among the populace and can often lead to experimentation with totalitarian ideology.
It seems like you're implying the latter is occurring right now in the US, though...can't we all just admit Obama isn't a tyrant, Bush wasn't, and if the Tea Party comes to power it won't be?
Logged
Quote from: Big Wiggly Style on April 13, 2013, 08:47:37 am
oh Vosem, you poor boy...
Quote from: Vosem on January 12, 2013, 05:05:23 pm
Economic score: +4.84
Social score: -6.52
At this rate, I'll lean left economically within a year or so
freepcrusher
YaBB God
Posts: 2055
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #7 on:
July 22, 2012, 12:58:56 am »
Quote from: Vosem on July 21, 2012, 11:37:00 pm
Quote from: freepcrusher on July 21, 2012, 11:33:46 pm
times of economic turmoil causes lots of fingerpointing and scapegoating among the populace and can often lead to experimentation with totalitarian ideology.
It seems like you're implying the latter is occurring right now in the US, though...can't we all just admit Obama isn't a tyrant, Bush wasn't, and if the Tea Party comes to power it won't be?
it is not an attack on the right or left. As someone with an interest in history, I've found that times of economic distress has lead to experimentation with extremist ideology, left or right, such as Russia in 1917 or Germany in 1933.
Logged
Mr. Morden
Moderators
YaBB God
Posts: 14703
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #8 on:
July 22, 2012, 06:05:50 am »
Quote from: Mitt Montgomery Burns on July 21, 2012, 10:11:19 pm
Seriously. I was just reading through the comments on a number of YouTube videos related to the 2012 election, and at least 80% of them were just mindless insults and personal attacks void of any kind of intellectual rigor.
Then I clicked on some UK political videos and read the comments on those too, and while there was still a decent amount of idiocy, they were on the whole much more respectable and civil.
Most of those Youtube commenters probably aren't old enough to vote. The internet dumbs down what you see of American political debate because American internet usage these days is dominated by illiterate teenagers.
Logged
What is your opinion of this thread?
Watch this video of Dave being briefed by the mods.
Quote from: Lunar on March 20, 2011, 10:58:04 am
Being a moderator is basically like one giant party. Except you're the one ruining the party and everyone hates you.
Keystone Phil
YaBB God
Posts: 49381
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #9 on:
July 22, 2012, 08:48:21 am »
Ok, here's your first problem: you were reading YouTube comments. The comments would be filled with vitriol if the video was of a dog saving an infant in a house fire.
Logged
Quote from: Representative Wyodon on May 06, 2013, 04:31:05 pm
And you're a f
u
cking asshole. How about you try actually contributing something to a debate at some point, or are you too busy kissing Rick Santorum's ass?
bore
YaBB God
Posts: 877
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #10 on:
July 22, 2012, 09:20:14 am »
Well a lot of American politics is personality driven rather than policy driven (why Jim Matheson can win in Utah but wouldn't be able to in kensington and chelsea) and its a lot easier to get angry at a person than at an abstract policy . Also there's the two party system which makes US politics more tribal than most places.
Logged
Vosem
YaBB God
Posts: 3797
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #11 on:
July 22, 2012, 09:48:18 am »
Quote from: freepcrusher on July 22, 2012, 12:58:56 am
Quote from: Vosem on July 21, 2012, 11:37:00 pm
Quote from: freepcrusher on July 21, 2012, 11:33:46 pm
times of economic turmoil causes lots of fingerpointing and scapegoating among the populace and can often lead to experimentation with totalitarian ideology.
It seems like you're implying the latter is occurring right now in the US, though...can't we all just admit Obama isn't a tyrant, Bush wasn't, and if the Tea Party comes to power it won't be?
it is not an attack on the right or left. As someone with an interest in history, I've found that times of economic distress has lead to experimentation with extremist ideology, left or right, such as Russia in 1917 or Germany in 1933.
Oh, OK. That's true enough. I thought you were implying it was happening in the US now -- all it's causing is rather severe swings between the two established parties.
Logged
Quote from: Big Wiggly Style on April 13, 2013, 08:47:37 am
oh Vosem, you poor boy...
Quote from: Vosem on January 12, 2013, 05:05:23 pm
Economic score: +4.84
Social score: -6.52
At this rate, I'll lean left economically within a year or so
anvi
anvikshiki
YaBB God
Posts: 2923
Political Matrix
E: -1.03, S: -1.22
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #12 on:
July 22, 2012, 10:40:17 am »
People in other countries don't shy away, by any means, from expressing their political views. I think there are, to generalize, three levels of contesting political discourse. There are places and political environments where political disagreement is literally deadly, where the discourse itself promulgates hatred and that hatred is channelled into widely mobilized social violence. There are other political environments where disagreement is. though clear and pointed, also much more civil, where political opponents don't accuse one another of moral failure and ignorance just because of policy disagreements. I think the U.S. now is somewhere in the middle of this scale--political disagreements most of the time don't encourage mobilized violence, but the language people use about political opponents is often nasty and personal, as well as, very often, quite uninformed. It's surely not as bad as it could be, but it could also be a lot more civil than it is. This unnecessary level of heatedness is, in fact, one of things about American culture that turns me off the most.
Logged
"I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead." --Mark Twain
Sibboleth
Realpolitik
Moderators
YaBB God
Posts: 53015
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #13 on:
July 22, 2012, 10:41:56 am »
It's because it's a branch of the entertainment industry.
Logged
'Gentlemen, a desert. A place of savage reference for the good people of Ohio. A place to fear and love. A blasted region. Something to remind us what we hewed out of. A place without malls. An Other for Ohio's Self. Cacti and scorpions and the sun bearing down. Desolation. A place for people to wander alone. To reflect. Away from everything. Gentlemen, a desert.'
opebo
YaBB God
Posts: 44802
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #14 on:
July 22, 2012, 10:45:09 am »
I think mostly because of the condition to which extremism has consigned the populace - in America such a large portion of the population lives in such dire economic desperation, and it is so visible, that it imparts a certain passion. Misguided perhaps given that neither party will help them, but there it is.
Logged
Quote from: GM Griffin on May 11, 2013, 11:43:51 pm
opebo is awesome.
Quote from: ?????????? on April 22, 2005, 03:24:06 pm
You are a peice of trash and you disgust me you ignorant louse.
London Man
Silent Hunter
YaBB God
Posts: 5588
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #15 on:
July 22, 2012, 10:59:08 am »
Quote from: Vosem on July 21, 2012, 11:37:00 pm
It seems like you're implying the latter is occurring right now in the US, though...can't we all just admit Obama isn't a tyrant, Bush wasn't, and if the Tea Party comes to power it won't be?
Logged
Visit my blog at
http://thesilenthunter.blogspot.com/
Phoenix Roleplaying
London Man
Silent Hunter
YaBB God
Posts: 5588
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #16 on:
July 22, 2012, 10:59:34 am »
Quote from: Comrade Sibboleth on July 22, 2012, 10:41:56 am
It's because it's a branch of the entertainment industry.
If it was a branch of the entertainment industry, there would be more swimsuit models in Congress.
Logged
Visit my blog at
http://thesilenthunter.blogspot.com/
Phoenix Roleplaying
Simfan34
YaBB God
Posts: 7499
Political Matrix
E: 1.26, S: 2.61
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #17 on:
July 22, 2012, 12:07:13 pm »
So we're Italy now?
Logged
Quote from: Lief on February 14, 2013, 08:49:41 pm
I haven't read the article, but I firmly support Simfan's efforts to blame Lena Dunham for our society's rot.
Quote from: Bacon King on February 14, 2013, 08:49:41 pm
Simfan, your standards are impossible to meet. You can't have a girl who is also a large fireplace.
Quote from: Inks.LWC. on February 14, 2013, 08:49:41 pm
[Simfan] is a quality poster
krazen1211
YaBB God
Posts: 5153
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #18 on:
July 22, 2012, 12:20:25 pm »
American politics is heated because there is not enough money in the treasury to fulfill government obligations, and over the last few years, has become a zero sum game.
Thus, people argue on how to divide the scarce resources of the economic pie.
Logged
WhyteRain
YaBB God
Posts: 952
Political Matrix
E: 6.19, S: -2.78
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #19 on:
July 22, 2012, 12:27:16 pm »
More than 20 years ago, this book predicted American politics would get more heated as the Baby Boomers settled into their years of leadership. (The BBs, as defined in this book, are now age 51 to 69.)
http://www.amazon.com/Generations-History-Americas-Future-1584/dp/0688119123
Logged
Redalgo
YaBB God
Posts: 1682
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #20 on:
July 22, 2012, 01:39:25 pm »
My best guess would be that a number of factors are converging to make politics in the United States, especially as it pertains to laymen, a highly-informed yet highly-ignorant facet of public life. A two-party system provides authoritarian individuals with exactly the kind of good/evil, us/them dichotomy they are so prone to embracing. For their part, it also offers politicians a rather enticing incentive (which gets stronger the higher up within the federalist tiers one goes) to internalize a ruthless, corrupt culture of clientelism in which they tell strategically-important voters whatever they want to hear, abandon principle at the first sign of trouble, and avoid taking an unambiguous stand on ideology for fear of alienating a large bloc of their constituents (alas, one of the perils of large, "big tent," coalition-like parties).
These conditions are exacerbated by long campaigns where party machines and groups with large volumes of private money at their disposal have ample room to maneuver in waging expensive "air wars" in their clamoring efforts to exercise decisive measures of influence in framing various issues, debates, and - ultimately - entire elections. Appearances come first and facts second (if at all), which I suppose is a gentler way of saying that elections become popularity contests designed to maximize turnout among ones own base, minimize turnout from the other side's, and claim the temporary loyalty of enough undecided folk caught in-between to secure a majority of the vote.
Meanwhile, on the citizens' end of the battle, 24/7 news networks and the internet afford hoards of busy and/or intellectually-lazy people easy, quick access to whatever "facts" or "evidence" can conveniently rationalize their strong, pre-existing opinions. Despite their best efforts to make their opponents see the perceived error and irrationality of their ways, adversaries in American politics remain in solid disagreement. This, in conjunction with damaging political stereotypes being built around and toxic rhetoric getting spewed by loud, embarrassingly-biased and/or prejudiced minorities in every major faction, gives the Average Joe a pretty wretchedly distorted perception of how and why their opponents in politics think and believe what they do. What ideally ought to be a mutually-respectful disagreement between ideological blocs of American voters thus becomes a matter of, "I am a <insert positive adjective> person because I think and do this, and you are a <insert negative adjective> person because you think that." Am I generalizing much? Sure. But I do not think it is a bad way to conceptualize what is transpiring in American politics.
To put this all in simpler, albeit jargon-laden terms, American politics tends to be so very heated because political actors are using 21st century tools and strategies to efficiently compete in a game where long-term success requires that one secure control of and wisely manipulate symbolic capital in such a way as to derive power from it. Those who make themselves look best and their opponents worst shall thrive, and the skills necessary for one to do so are unfortunately distinct from those that nudge one toward being a great public servant. Everything else we see in this dilemma of negativity is a symptom of that greater disease, the absence of effective regulation of political conflicts forever raging on betwixt numerous, self-interested individuals, party factions, PACs, etc. That is not to suggest political actors are bad folk, per se, just that the rules that bind them suck right now and immerse them in environs where socially harmful behavior is rewarded.
A bit of a ramble I know, but what do ya'll think of that? Are there any important pieces missing? I see a lot of posts here about the passions of the people and their tendency to care about personalities more than ideas, which I don’t think is incompatible with what I am saying about contests of image and voters’ inclination to rationalize rather than to be strictly rational. There is also some Marxian analysis provided earlier on in the thread that I must reject, however, as I adhere to a relatively Bourdieuan perspective (which at times sounds a bit Marxist but is actually influenced somewhat more by Weber) on how to explain social conflict.
«
Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 01:54:40 pm by Redalgo
»
Logged
Social liberal
with
market socialist
,
sentiocentric
, and
cosmopolitan
tendencies.
Political Matrix results on 13/2/2013: -1.16 (Economic), -8.00 (Social)
Rooney
Sr. Member
Posts: 421
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #21 on:
July 22, 2012, 01:41:56 pm »
Quote from: Mitt Montgomery Burns on July 21, 2012, 10:11:19 pm
Seriously. I was just reading through the comments on a number of YouTube videos related to the 2012 election, and at least 80% of them were just mindless insults and personal attacks void of any kind of intellectual rigor.
Expecting intellectual rigor from YouTube comments is like waiting for Godot.
Logged
Political Matrix:
Economic score: +8.65
Social score: -8.00
gunnut
Rookie
Posts: 26
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #22 on:
July 22, 2012, 02:33:54 pm »
The reason we have heated politics is simply because we are a two-party nation, where the two parties have hardly changed save the Democrat-Republican flip and have been going at it for over two centuries.
Logged
Quote from: Edward Gibbon
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
Quote from: Albert Einstein
Those who have never failed have never tried anything new.
Quote from: Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity.
Quote from: Ronald Reagan
You can tell a lot about a fellow's character by the way he eats jelly beans.
London Man
Silent Hunter
YaBB God
Posts: 5588
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #23 on:
July 22, 2012, 02:57:51 pm »
Quote from: Mid-evil carnival ride on July 22, 2012, 12:07:13 pm
So we're Italy now?
No; you haven't been inflicted with Silvio Berlusconi. Yet.
Logged
Visit my blog at
http://thesilenthunter.blogspot.com/
Phoenix Roleplaying
Progressive Realist
YaBB God
Posts: 3907
Re: Why is American politics so heated?
«
Reply #24 on:
July 22, 2012, 03:03:20 pm »
Quote from: gunnut on July 22, 2012, 02:33:54 pm
The reason we have heated politics is simply because we are a two-party nation, where the two parties have hardly changed save
the Democrat-Republican flip
and have been going at it for over two centuries.
What an oversimplification.
Logged
*insert witty quote here*
Pages:
[
1
]
2
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
-----------------------------
=> 2016 U.S. Presidential Election
===> 2016 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls
===> 2016 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls
=> U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2012 U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2008 U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election Results
===> 2000 U.S. Presidential Election Results
=> Presidential Election Trends
=> Election What-ifs?
===> Past Election What-ifs (US)
===> Alternative Elections
===> International What-ifs
-----------------------------
Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion
-----------------------------
=> Gubernatorial/Statewide Elections
===> 2013 & Odd Year Gubernatorial Election Polls
===> 2014 Gubernatorial Election Polls
=> Congressional Elections
===> 2014 Senatorial Election Polls
=> International Elections
=> Election Predictions
-----------------------------
Questions and Answers
-----------------------------
=> Presidential Election Process
===> Electoral Reform
===> Polling
=> The Atlas
===> How To
-----------------------------
General Discussion
-----------------------------
=> Constitution and Law
=> Religion & Philosophy
=> History
===> Alternative History
-----------------------------
General Politics
-----------------------------
=> U.S. General Discussion
=> Political Geography & Demographics
=> International General Discussion
=> Economics
=> Individual Politics
=> Political Debate
===> Political Essays & Deliberation
===> Book Reviews and Discussion
-----------------------------
Election Archive
-----------------------------
=> 2012 Elections
===> 2012 Senatorial Election Polls
===> 2012 House Election Polls
===> 2012 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls
===> 2012 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls
===> 2012 Gubernatorial Election Polls
=> 2010 Elections
===> 2010 House Election Polls
===> 2010 Senatorial Election Polls
===> 2010 Gubernatorial Election Polls
=> 2008 Elections
===> 2008 Senatorial Election Polls
===> 2008 Gubernatorial Election Polls
===> 2008 U.S. Presidential Election Campaign
===> 2008 U.S. Presidential General Election Polls
===> 2008 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls
=> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election
===> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election Campaign
===> 2004 U.S. Presidential Election Polls
=> 2006 Elections
===> 2006 Senatorial Election Polls
===> 2006 Gubernatorial Election Polls
-----------------------------
Forum Community
-----------------------------
=> Forum Community
===> Forum Community Election Match-ups
=> Election and History Games
===> Mock Parliment
===> Town Hall
===> Survivor
===> Interactive Timelines
=> Off-topic Board
-----------------------------
Atlas Fantasy Elections
-----------------------------
=> Atlas Fantasy Elections
===> Voting Booth
=> Atlas Fantasy Government
===> Constitutional Convention
===> Regional Governments
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Powered by SMF 1.1.18
|
SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Loading...