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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: Judicial Term Length Amendment (Failed)  (Read 1646 times)
Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #25 on: July 27, 2012, 05:26:25 am »
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Can we impeach justices? It seems like that is all the power the Senate should have.

Indeed you can, though it's rather difficult to do. (I didn't get far when I tried to impeach Sam Spade from the court..) When we drafted the new constitution I'm pretty sure we flipped the requirements from majority senate/supermajority public vote to supermajority senate/majority public vote, so it's a little easier than it used to be, but it can be done even for a Justice if it's really necessary.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2012, 06:42:25 am »
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Quote from: Amendment 50:14 by Scott
6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last one year or until the Justice decides to retire.  The President may re-appoint a Justice two years after the Justice's term has expired.

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Status: Pending
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« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2012, 09:56:28 am »
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Wouldn't the phrasing, "A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last one year or until the Justice decides to retire," basically translate into, "A Supreme Court Justice's term shall end whenever the Justice wants," in practice, or is this simply confusion on my part from ambiguous language?

Respectfully, I also do not see the point of having a lapse between re-appointments be so very long (two years). Personally, I think four months would suffice unless we intend to have each seat up to be filled at exactly the same time every cycle.
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« Reply #28 on: July 27, 2012, 10:01:42 am »
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Why not just add two new Justices?
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« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2012, 11:08:17 am »
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Quote from: Amendment 50:14 by Scott
6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last one year or until the Justice decides to retire.  The President may re-appoint a Justice two years after the Justice's term has expired.

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Status: Pending

I'm going to call this one unfriendly because I don't think it would affect the politicization problem it was intended to solves at all.
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« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2012, 11:25:10 am »
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Quote from: Amendment 50:14 by Scott
6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last one year or until the Justice decides to retire.  The President may re-appoint a Justice two years after the Justice's term has expired.

Sponsor Feedback: Unknown
Status: Pending

I'm going to call this one unfriendly because I don't think it would affect the politicization problem it was intended to solves at all.

How long should it be, then?
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Lt. Governor TJ
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« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2012, 11:29:23 am »
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Quote from: Amendment 50:14 by Scott
6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last one year or until the Justice decides to retire.  The President may re-appoint a Justice two years after the Justice's term has expired.

Sponsor Feedback: Unknown
Status: Pending

I'm going to call this one unfriendly because I don't think it would affect the politicization problem it was intended to solves at all.

How long should it be, then?

I thought the point was to get rid of re-appointments? All this does is limit them to three terms.
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« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2012, 11:34:01 am »
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Quote from: Amendment 50:14 by Scott
6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last one year or until the Justice decides to retire.  The President may re-appoint a Justice two years after the Justice's term has expired.

Sponsor Feedback: Unknown
Status: Pending

I'm going to call this one unfriendly because I don't think it would affect the politicization problem it was intended to solves at all.

How long should it be, then?

I thought the point was to get rid of re-appointments? All this does is limit them to three terms.

Oh, I thought we were allowing re-appointments after a certain amount of time.

I'll just withdraw my amendment, then.
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« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2012, 11:45:49 am »
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Here's a version that would eliminate re-appointments so that political considerations are not part of Supreme Court decisions:

Quote
Amendment to Article II the Third Constitution: Judicial Term Length

Section 1: The Supreme Court
1.    The judicial power of the Republic of Atlasia shall be vested in one Supreme Court.
2.    The Supreme Court shall consist of three Justices who shall all be registered voters, one of whom shall be the Chief Justice. Justices shall hold their office during good behavior.
3.    The Supreme Court shall be the sole body in the Forum with the authority to nullify or void federal laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a federal law in the event that the federal law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
4.    The Supreme Court shall have authority to nullify or void regional laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a regional law in the event that the regional law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
5.    The Supreme Court shall arbitrate in all disputes concerning federal elections.
6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last 1 2 years or until the Justice decides to retire. The President may re-appoint a Justice after the 1 year term has expired. Justices may not serve consecutive terms.

Also, with structural amendments like this one, I believe it is best to have them take effect several months later so that there is no political incentive beyond support and dissent, so I'm going to propose the following amendment:

Quote
...
7.    If ratified this amendment will take effect January 1, 2013.
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« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2012, 05:09:49 pm »
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I should have mentioned this earlier, but if we prohibit re-appointments entirely, couldn't that potentially lead to a shortage in potential appointees if there are fewer people available to serve on the Court?
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« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2012, 07:21:40 pm »
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I should have mentioned this earlier, but if we prohibit re-appointments entirely, couldn't that potentially lead to a shortage in potential appointees if there are fewer people available to serve on the Court?

No because they could be appointed again later under the amendment I offered, just not consecutively.
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« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2012, 11:14:42 am »
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Quote from: Amendment 50:15 by TJ in Cleve
Amendment to Article II the Third Constitution: Judicial Term Length

Section 1: The Supreme Court
1.    The judicial power of the Republic of Atlasia shall be vested in one Supreme Court.
2.    The Supreme Court shall consist of three Justices who shall all be registered voters, one of whom shall be the Chief Justice. Justices shall hold their office during good behavior.
3.    The Supreme Court shall be the sole body in the Forum with the authority to nullify or void federal laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a federal law in the event that the federal law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
4.    The Supreme Court shall have authority to nullify or void regional laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a regional law in the event that the regional law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
5.    The Supreme Court shall arbitrate in all disputes concerning federal elections.
6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last 1 2 years or until the Justice decides to retire. The President may re-appoint a Justice after the 1 year term has expired. Justices may not serve consecutive terms.

Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object

Quote from: Amendment 50:16 by TJ in Cleve
...
7.    If ratified this amendment will take effect January 1, 2013.

Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object
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« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2012, 03:53:55 pm »
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Yet another attempt by some of the right-wingers to politicize the court.  Couldn't you fellows have the decency to wait a bit before yet another of these transparent attempts?

One can only hope there are three Senators who respect the constitution, as there were last time round.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 03:55:48 pm by opebo »Logged

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« Reply #38 on: July 28, 2012, 03:59:53 pm »
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Yet another attempt by some of the right-wingers to politicize the court.  Couldn't you fellows have the decency to wait a bit before yet another of these transparent attempts?

One can only hope there are three Senators who respect the constitution, as there were last time round.

Don't you mean four? It takes atleast four to ensure failure. And there were five no votes on the last one if memory serves me.
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« Reply #39 on: July 28, 2012, 04:06:27 pm »
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One can only hope there are three Senators who respect the constitution, as there were last time round.

Don't you mean four? It takes atleast four to ensure failure. And there were five no votes on the last one if memory serves me.

No, a constitutional amendment requires a two-thirds margin of victory, which is 66%.  So seven, not six.
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« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2012, 04:09:46 pm »
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One can only hope there are three Senators who respect the constitution, as there were last time round.

Don't you mean four? It takes atleast four to ensure failure. And there were five no votes on the last one if memory serves me.

No, a constitutional amendment requires a two-thirds margin of victory, which is 66%.  So seven, not six.

If three people vote no, that leaves seven to potentially vote aye which is 70% in favor of passage. If four votes no that precludes passage because the best the amendment can get is 60%.
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« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2012, 04:13:08 pm »
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If three people vote no, that leaves seven to potentially vote aye which is 70% in favor of passage. If four votes no that precludes passage because the best the amendment can get is 60%.

Oh yes, you're quite correct. I apologize - it is 4 am here!  4 no votes to kill it.  7 required for passage.  Just checked, it was an encouraging 5 who voted to defend the constitution last time round.
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« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2012, 08:14:17 pm »
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To repeat my concern from earlier since nobody seemed to notice, I cannot support the amendment until the language in Section I, Subsection 6 is addressed. There is nothing yet there to specify a justice cannot serve for as long as he or she wants before resigning instead of honoring the two-year limit of their term.
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« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2012, 08:09:41 am »
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I simply can't see myself supporting this amendment, or any other. I don't favor putting term limits for on our Supreme Court.
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« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2012, 03:22:08 pm »
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Justice Antonin Scalia was giving an interview on FNS today and said in reference to the President's criticism of the Citizen's United case and the pressuring in the speech prior to the Health care ruling, after much pushing from Chris Wallace of course, "What can he do to me, I have lifetime tenure? The very reason we do is because the court sometimes has to deny the elected majority it's desires because they are unconstitutional and thus we are shielded from the whims of politics"

Slight paraphrasing in the quote of course because I don't have a transcript of it in front of me, but you get the idea.
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« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2012, 09:53:52 am »
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The amendments have passed.
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« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2012, 11:04:13 am »
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As Redalgo pointed out the wording of Item 6 needed to be changed to make it so that the term ends either after two years or retirement, not both.

Here's the newest amendment:

Quote
Amendment to Article II the Third Constitution: Judicial Term Length

Section 1: The Supreme Court
1.    The judicial power of the Republic of Atlasia shall be vested in one Supreme Court.
2.    The Supreme Court shall consist of three Justices who shall all be registered voters, one of whom shall be the Chief Justice. Justices shall hold their office during good behavior.
3.    The Supreme Court shall be the sole body in the Forum with the authority to nullify or void federal laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a federal law in the event that the federal law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
4.    The Supreme Court shall have authority to nullify or void regional laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a regional law in the event that the regional law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
5.    The Supreme Court shall arbitrate in all disputes concerning federal elections.
6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last 2 years or until the Justice decides to retire, whichever happens first. Justices may not serve consecutive terms.
7.    If ratified this amendment will take effect January 1, 2013.
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« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2012, 11:28:00 am »
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Quote from: Amendment 50:18 by TJ in Cleve
Amendment to Article II the Third Constitution: Judicial Term Length

Section 1: The Supreme Court
1.    The judicial power of the Republic of Atlasia shall be vested in one Supreme Court.
2.    The Supreme Court shall consist of three Justices who shall all be registered voters, one of whom shall be the Chief Justice. Justices shall hold their office during good behavior.
3.    The Supreme Court shall be the sole body in the Forum with the authority to nullify or void federal laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a federal law in the event that the federal law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
4.    The Supreme Court shall have authority to nullify or void regional laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a regional law in the event that the regional law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
5.    The Supreme Court shall arbitrate in all disputes concerning federal elections.
6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last 2 years or until the Justice decides to retire, whichever happens first. Justices may not serve consecutive terms.
7.    If ratified this amendment will take effect January 1, 2013.

Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object
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« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2012, 09:45:49 am »
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The amendment has passed.

What next?
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« Reply #49 on: August 02, 2012, 12:44:13 pm »
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I am non-patiently waiting here.
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