SENATE BILL: Judicial Term Length Amendment (Failed)

[President Marokai]

Can we impeach justices? It seems like that is all the power the Senate should have.

Indeed you can, though it's rather difficult to do. (I didn't get far when I tried to impeach Sam Spade from the court..) When we drafted the new constitution I'm pretty sure we flipped the requirements from majority senate/supermajority public vote to supermajority senate/majority public vote, so it's a little easier than it used to be, but it can be done even for a Justice if it's really necessary.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last one year or until the Justice decides to retire.  The President may re-appoint a Justice two years after the Justice's term has expired.

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Status: Pending

[Redalgo]

Wouldn't the phrasing, "A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last one year or until the Justice decides to retire," basically translate into, "A Supreme Court Justice's term shall end whenever the Justice wants," in practice, or is this simply confusion on my part from ambiguous language?

Respectfully, I also do not see the point of having a lapse between re-appointments be so very long (two years). Personally, I think four months would suffice unless we intend to have each seat up to be filled at exactly the same time every cycle.

[Senator Napoleon]

Why not just add two new Justices?

[TJ in Wisco]

6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last one year or until the Justice decides to retire.  The President may re-appoint a Justice two years after the Justice's term has expired.

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Status: Pending

I'm going to call this one unfriendly because I don't think it would affect the politicization problem it was intended to solves at all.

[Governor Scott]

6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last one year or until the Justice decides to retire.  The President may re-appoint a Justice two years after the Justice's term has expired.

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I'm going to call this one unfriendly because I don't think it would affect the politicization problem it was intended to solves at all.

How long should it be, then?

[TJ in Wisco]

6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last one year or until the Justice decides to retire.  The President may re-appoint a Justice two years after the Justice's term has expired.

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Status: Pending

I'm going to call this one unfriendly because I don't think it would affect the politicization problem it was intended to solves at all.

How long should it be, then?

I thought the point was to get rid of re-appointments? All this does is limit them to three terms.

[Governor Scott]

6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last one year or until the Justice decides to retire.  The President may re-appoint a Justice two years after the Justice's term has expired.

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Status: Pending

I'm going to call this one unfriendly because I don't think it would affect the politicization problem it was intended to solves at all.

How long should it be, then?

I thought the point was to get rid of re-appointments? All this does is limit them to three terms.

Oh, I thought we were allowing re-appointments after a certain amount of time.

I'll just withdraw my amendment, then.

[TJ in Wisco]

Here's a version that would eliminate re-appointments so that political considerations are not part of Supreme Court decisions:

Amendment to Article II the Third Constitution: Judicial Term Length

Section 1: The Supreme Court
1.    The judicial power of the Republic of Atlasia shall be vested in one Supreme Court.
2.    The Supreme Court shall consist of three Justices who shall all be registered voters, one of whom shall be the Chief Justice. Justices shall hold their office during good behavior.
3.    The Supreme Court shall be the sole body in the Forum with the authority to nullify or void federal laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a federal law in the event that the federal law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
4.    The Supreme Court shall have authority to nullify or void regional laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a regional law in the event that the regional law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
5.    The Supreme Court shall arbitrate in all disputes concerning federal elections.
6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last 1 2 years or until the Justice decides to retire. The President may re-appoint a Justice after the 1 year term has expired. Justices may not serve consecutive terms.

Also, with structural amendments like this one, I believe it is best to have them take effect several months later so that there is no political incentive beyond support and dissent, so I'm going to propose the following amendment:

...
7.    If ratified this amendment will take effect January 1, 2013.

[Governor Scott]

I should have mentioned this earlier, but if we prohibit re-appointments entirely, couldn't that potentially lead to a shortage in potential appointees if there are fewer people available to serve on the Court?

[TJ in Wisco]

I should have mentioned this earlier, but if we prohibit re-appointments entirely, couldn't that potentially lead to a shortage in potential appointees if there are fewer people available to serve on the Court?

No because they could be appointed again later under the amendment I offered, just not consecutively.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Amendment to Article II the Third Constitution: Judicial Term Length

Section 1: The Supreme Court
1.    The judicial power of the Republic of Atlasia shall be vested in one Supreme Court.
2.    The Supreme Court shall consist of three Justices who shall all be registered voters, one of whom shall be the Chief Justice. Justices shall hold their office during good behavior.
3.    The Supreme Court shall be the sole body in the Forum with the authority to nullify or void federal laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a federal law in the event that the federal law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
4.    The Supreme Court shall have authority to nullify or void regional laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a regional law in the event that the regional law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
5.    The Supreme Court shall arbitrate in all disputes concerning federal elections.
6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last 1 2 years or until the Justice decides to retire. The President may re-appoint a Justice after the 1 year term has expired. Justices may not serve consecutive terms.

Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object

...
7.    If ratified this amendment will take effect January 1, 2013.

Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object

[opebo]

Yet another attempt by some of the right-wingers to politicize the court.  Couldn't you fellows have the decency to wait a bit before yet another of these transparent attempts?

One can only hope there are three Senators who respect the constitution, as there were last time round.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Yet another attempt by some of the right-wingers to politicize the court.  Couldn't you fellows have the decency to wait a bit before yet another of these transparent attempts?

One can only hope there are three Senators who respect the constitution, as there were last time round.

Don't you mean four? It takes atleast four to ensure failure. And there were five no votes on the last one if memory serves me.

[opebo]

One can only hope there are three Senators who respect the constitution, as there were last time round.

Don't you mean four? It takes atleast four to ensure failure. And there were five no votes on the last one if memory serves me.

No, a constitutional amendment requires a two-thirds margin of victory, which is 66%.  So seven, not six.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

One can only hope there are three Senators who respect the constitution, as there were last time round.

Don't you mean four? It takes atleast four to ensure failure. And there were five no votes on the last one if memory serves me.

No, a constitutional amendment requires a two-thirds margin of victory, which is 66%.  So seven, not six.

If three people vote no, that leaves seven to potentially vote aye which is 70% in favor of passage. If four votes no that precludes passage because the best the amendment can get is 60%.

[opebo]

If three people vote no, that leaves seven to potentially vote aye which is 70% in favor of passage. If four votes no that precludes passage because the best the amendment can get is 60%.

Oh yes, you're quite correct. I apologize - it is 4 am here!  4 no votes to kill it.  7 required for passage.  Just checked, it was an encouraging 5 who voted to defend the constitution last time round.

[Redalgo]

To repeat my concern from earlier since nobody seemed to notice, I cannot support the amendment until the language in Section I, Subsection 6 is addressed. There is nothing yet there to specify a justice cannot serve for as long as he or she wants before resigning instead of honoring the two-year limit of their term.

[Big DaddyTX]

I simply can't see myself supporting this amendment, or any other. I don't favor putting term limits for on our Supreme Court.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Justice Antonin Scalia was giving an interview on FNS today and said in reference to the President's criticism of the Citizen's United case and the pressuring in the speech prior to the Health care ruling, after much pushing from Chris Wallace of course, "What can he do to me, I have lifetime tenure? The very reason we do is because the court sometimes has to deny the elected majority it's desires because they are unconstitutional and thus we are shielded from the whims of politics"

Slight paraphrasing in the quote of course because I don't have a transcript of it in front of me, but you get the idea.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The amendments have passed.

[TJ in Wisco]

As Redalgo pointed out the wording of Item 6 needed to be changed to make it so that the term ends either after two years or retirement, not both.

Here's the newest amendment:

Amendment to Article II the Third Constitution: Judicial Term Length

Section 1: The Supreme Court
1.    The judicial power of the Republic of Atlasia shall be vested in one Supreme Court.
2.    The Supreme Court shall consist of three Justices who shall all be registered voters, one of whom shall be the Chief Justice. Justices shall hold their office during good behavior.
3.    The Supreme Court shall be the sole body in the Forum with the authority to nullify or void federal laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a federal law in the event that the federal law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
4.    The Supreme Court shall have authority to nullify or void regional laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a regional law in the event that the regional law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
5.    The Supreme Court shall arbitrate in all disputes concerning federal elections.
6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last 2 years or until the Justice decides to retire, whichever happens first. Justices may not serve consecutive terms.
7.    If ratified this amendment will take effect January 1, 2013.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Amendment to Article II the Third Constitution: Judicial Term Length

Section 1: The Supreme Court
1.    The judicial power of the Republic of Atlasia shall be vested in one Supreme Court.
2.    The Supreme Court shall consist of three Justices who shall all be registered voters, one of whom shall be the Chief Justice. Justices shall hold their office during good behavior.
3.    The Supreme Court shall be the sole body in the Forum with the authority to nullify or void federal laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a federal law in the event that the federal law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
4.    The Supreme Court shall have authority to nullify or void regional laws. The Supreme Court shall only be able to nullify or void a regional law in the event that the regional law explicitly contradicts the Constitution.
5.    The Supreme Court shall arbitrate in all disputes concerning federal elections.
6.    A Supreme Court Justice's term shall last 2 years or until the Justice decides to retire, whichever happens first. Justices may not serve consecutive terms.
7.    If ratified this amendment will take effect January 1, 2013.

Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The amendment has passed.

What next?

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I am non-patiently waiting here.