Whig Party Convention, Bird-in-Hand, PA

[Donerail]

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ZuWo, Pingvin, Jbrase, PiT, and I worked this arraignment out.

[Supersonic]

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ZuWo, Pingvin, Jbrase, PiT, and I worked this arraignment out.

I disapprove. Firstly, despite stating that the two parties are 'legal separate apparatus' etc, allowing Imperial Bloc members to stand for internal Whig Party offices just seems rather off. This effectively gives the Bloc a huge say, if they win a Whig Party position, in influencing nationwide policy, not just southern issues.

Secondly, given that the Imperial Bloc is a regionalist group, I'm sceptical of how many Bloc members there are outside of the south that would be of use to Whig candidates in other regions. On the flip side, our party would in effect, be abandoning a whole region, in which we have made great inroads. The ol' Griffgraph released the other day showed the south trending Whig hard, and to pack up shop and leave now seems ridiculous. Not to mention, if the Whig Party abandons the south, the region, in effect, becomes a one party state.

Also, and this is a more general statement. While 'endorsements' are all well and good, in reality, they do little and people vote for whomever they want and, lets face it, they don't really care what the Party says. Therefore while the intent may be noble, the practical result may not be as intended.

I may be convinced otherwise, but that's just my tuppence for the time being.

Edit: I wrote this when I was quite tired, so bear with.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I have remained friendly with the Imperial Bloc throughout my time in the region. I believe in fighting for regional rights, and I believe that the South comprises a distinct cultural society within a unified Atlasia. If I was not a Whig, I would join the Imperial Bloc. That being said, I am a Whig, I enjoy being a Whig, and I will not willingly forfeit my membership.

So with that in mind, I cannot be supportive of this language. If it comes up for a vote, I will not support it. If it wins, you will have to expel me from the party. If I am expelled from the party, I will reluctantly move to another region and re-apply for membership.

Our two parties are very cooperative already when it comes to federal elections, and I believe we lose more than we gain by making this deal.

I know we've worked very closely over the course of this election, ZuWo, but I just can't support what you propose. I have the utmost respect for the Imperial Bloc–but I will not allow myself to be compelled to join a party.

[ZuWo]

I understand all these concerns that you, Supersonic and Hagrid, have raised. There are things we must discuss and we obviously won't enter such a union without holding a vote after an extensive debate, and nobody will be forced to enter a new political group if they don't want to.

Firstly, let's put this idea in a broader context. In fact, this union proposal is based on the CDU/CSU model in Germany. I guess most of you are at least superficially familiar with this concept: The CSU is only politically active in Bavaria, the CDU is the party of the rest of Germany and does not exist in Bavaria. Both groups - the CDU and the CSU - have separate identies but because of their political similarities they make up a political union. For example, the current German Chancellor, Angela Merkel, is a member of the CDU, but the previous candidate for Chancellor, former Bavarian Prime Minister Edmund Stoiber, ran on a common CDU/CSU ticket in 2002. In fact, it has been a tradition in Germany that if in an election year the CDU/CSU candidate for Chancellor is a CDU member, the next candidate will be a CSU member.

Now the proposed Whig/IB union is very similar: The Whig Party and the Imperial Bloc shall enter a union and, despite retaining their separate identities and names, are essentially one political group. Thus, I don't think the Whig Party would lose anyone if all Whig members in the South joined the IB because, according to this proposal, the Whig Party and the IB are one. Likewise, those members of the IB outside of the South (I think there's at least one if not two) would not really leave the IB because we will be one and the same political group.

Let's face it: The Whig Party and the IB have cooperated a lot in recent elections. Candidates of the Whig Party have no shot at winning an election without IB support and vice versa. We in the Whig Party owe the IB a lot; our Senators TJ and Clarence (and - hopefully - our future Senator Hagrid) have been successful in part thanks to our friends in the IB. Our last two presidential tickets consisted of a Whig and an IB member; I had the honor to run on a ticket with Jbrase in February and Clarence ran with Yelnoc in June. What this proposal wants to achieve is nothing more than a logical extension of the current political reality in Atlasia. We can and certainly should debate the language of this union proposal, but I stand behind the main concept of this idea. While the IB is less homogeneous than the Whig Party - we are a center-right party whereas the IB is a bit of a mixed bag - we have one important principle in common: The protection of regional rights and our belief in an economic system which values personal responsibility. This is our common base, and this is why such a union makes sense.

[Donerail]

I disapprove. Firstly, despite stating that the two parties are 'legal separate apparatus' etc, allowing Imperial Bloc members to stand for internal Whig Party offices just seems rather off. This effectively gives the Bloc a huge say, if they win a Whig Party position, in influencing nationwide policy, not just southern issues.

Just to address this right now (I had a big thing too, but ZuWo said it much better than what I had ), that's a provision I added in there when I remembered that Clarence had a leadership role in the Whig Party and wouldn't likely want to give that up (although the Bloc has a vacant Vice-Chairmanship ); if y'all want to toss it, it's pretty fine.

[Pingvin]

ZuWo said all the things I wanted to say.
Plus Whig-IB united party will be largest in Atlasia.

[CLARENCE 2015!]

I always support cooperation with the Bloc...I want to point out that I am a Whig, not Imperial Bloc- so I don't understand the "Clarence Clause" ;-)

[Donerail]

I always support cooperation with the Bloc...I want to point out that I am a Whig, not Imperial Bloc- so I don't understand the "Clarence Clause" ;-)

Southern Whigs would join the Bloc, non-Southern IBers would join the Whigs (like how the CDU doesn't run against CSU candidates and vice-versa).

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I sent my concerns via pm to SJoyceFla before reading the thread, and now I wish to God I'd copied them to somewhere else first.

Maybe he wouldn't mind quoting the pm here? I'm on my phone, so the "typing" is a bit difficult.

A question though: Why couldn't we maintain such a formalized alliance without requiring folks to switch parties?  Any non-IB candidate running in the South would just have to accept that they'd be preferenced second to their friends in the Bloc by Bloc members... which, if I may say, is something we've been living with fine for quite sometime.

[Donerail]

I know it's stubborn, but if I become HagridOfTheDeep (IB-SC), I have left the Whigs. SJoyce, you know I love the IB... But I joined the Whigs because that's where I felt I belonged, and I don't want that to change. And other than the membership swaps, I don't really see what this proposition would actually do. TJ and clarence didn't always vote the same, so obviously caucusing together wouldn't really matter; and endorsements don't really matter much either, because people will support who they're going to support. Mechaman didn't vote for any Whig whatsoever!

So to me, this proposition basically reaffirms the status quo with the exception of forcing me to join another party.

[Mechaman]

I know it's stubborn, but if I become HagridOfTheDeep (IB-SC), I have left the Whigs. SJoyce, you know I love the IB... But I joined the Whigs because that's where I felt I belonged, and I don't want that to change. And other than the membership swaps, I don't really see what this proposition would actually do. TJ and clarence didn't always vote the same, so obviously caucusing together wouldn't really matter; and endorsements don't really matter much either, because people will support who they're going to support. Mechaman didn't vote for any Whig whatsoever!

So to me, this proposition basically reaffirms the status quo with the exception of forcing me to join another party.

For the record, it was nothing personal.  I just had to preference the two joke candidates and SJoyce (since I'm a party hack who takes his marching orders explicitly from the Kremlin, err I mean the Imperial House).  By the time I got to my fifth preference any vote I gave any of you guys would've been non-existent (hell, do they even count votes past fifth preference?).
That, and admittedly there were a lot of kickass candidates to support.  Something that, sadly, would've affected my voting choices .

With that said, I do agree with Hagrid's conclusions (though I am not a Whig, and probably won't ever consider myself one.  Sorry guys ).  If there is an election that all of us feel is important enough to rally behind a common ticket, we will do so.  It shouldn't be something enforced by party structure.  That is the beauty of Atlasia that we don't see in American politics: parties working together to achieve a common goal.

I voted for the Clarence/Yelnoc ticket last presidential election.  I voted for ZuWo/Jbrase.  Those were worthy tickets and I would probably hesitate to support another Whig Presidential candidate, but (like last time) if the candidate gives sufficient reason to support them I will!  As I would expect a lot of other IB members to do.

You fine principled folks shouldn't have to change for anyone

[TJ in Oregon]

I know it's stubborn, but if I become HagridOfTheDeep (IB-SC), I have left the Whigs. SJoyce, you know I love the IB... But I joined the Whigs because that's where I felt I belonged, and I don't want that to change. And other than the membership swaps, I don't really see what this proposition would actually do. TJ and clarence didn't always vote the same, so obviously caucusing together wouldn't really matter; and endorsements don't really matter much either, because people will support who they're going to support. Mechaman didn't vote for any Whig whatsoever!

So to me, this proposition basically reaffirms the status quo with the exception of forcing me to join another party.

For the record, it was nothing personal.  I just had to preference the two joke candidates and SJoyce (since I'm a party hack who takes his marching orders explicitly from the Kremlin, err I mean the Imperial House).  By the time I got to my fifth preference any vote I gave any of you guys would've been non-existent (hell, do they even count votes past fifth preference?).
That, and admittedly there were a lot of kickass candidates to support.  Something that, sadly, would've affected my voting choices .

With that said, I do agree with Hagrid's conclusions (though I am not a Whig, and probably won't ever consider myself one.  Sorry guys ).

You fine principled folks shouldn't have to change for anyone

Actually Mecha you're 5th preference is currently the one that ends up counting actually

[HagridOfTheDeep]

You fine principled folks shouldn't have to change for anyone

In all honesty though, I don't care too much that you didn't support us... that's for you to decide (and after the June IDS campaign, I don't blame you ). My point, though, is that an alliance like this would look fine and dandy on paper, but I don't think it would achieve anything different than what the current reality already is.

[Mechaman]

I know it's stubborn, but if I become HagridOfTheDeep (IB-SC), I have left the Whigs. SJoyce, you know I love the IB... But I joined the Whigs because that's where I felt I belonged, and I don't want that to change. And other than the membership swaps, I don't really see what this proposition would actually do. TJ and clarence didn't always vote the same, so obviously caucusing together wouldn't really matter; and endorsements don't really matter much either, because people will support who they're going to support. Mechaman didn't vote for any Whig whatsoever!

So to me, this proposition basically reaffirms the status quo with the exception of forcing me to join another party.

For the record, it was nothing personal.  I just had to preference the two joke candidates and SJoyce (since I'm a party hack who takes his marching orders explicitly from the Kremlin, err I mean the Imperial House).  By the time I got to my fifth preference any vote I gave any of you guys would've been non-existent (hell, do they even count votes past fifth preference?).
That, and admittedly there were a lot of kickass candidates to support.  Something that, sadly, would've affected my voting choices .

With that said, I do agree with Hagrid's conclusions (though I am not a Whig, and probably won't ever consider myself one.  Sorry guys ).

You fine principled folks shouldn't have to change for anyone

Actually Mecha you're 5th preference is currently the one that ends up counting actually

Ehh right.  Well, I kind of felt the need to troll Atlasia, thus my vote for seatown.  I used very similar logic a few months ago when I gave Wormyguy first preference.

Again, no hurt personal feelings.  Well, except for the lack of generous bribes .

[Mechaman]

You fine principled folks shouldn't have to change for anyone

In all honesty though, I don't care too much that you didn't support us... that's for you to decide (and after the June IDS campaign, I don't blame you ). My point, though, is that an alliance like this would look fine and dandy on paper, but I don't think it would achieve anything different than what the current reality already is.

I completely agree.

[ZuWo]

I've already envisioned Emperor PiT as our Atlasian Edmund Stoiber and had a few ideas of who could be our equivalent to Angela Merkel.

[Donerail]

Another note: The IDS has in-region registration as well (we've got an Imperial Census bureau), so if the Southern Whigs join the IB they can still be a part of the Imperial Whig Party.

[Pingvin]

I've already envisioned Emperor PiT as our Atlasian Edmund Stoiber and had a few ideas of who could be our equivalent to Angela Merkel.

Politicus?

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Guys, are we going back to a two-party system?

[Donerail]

Guys, are we going back to a two-party system?

Yes, Speaker Alfred F. Jones (Lab/Lib-NY), we are.

[ZuWo]

If the preliminary Senate results are certified we can say that this election has been a huge success for the Whig Party. Not only did we manage to retain our two at-large seats, which was quite a challenge due to the large number of good candidates and the high turnout, but we also have a new Whig Governor, spamage, who I think is someone who can help turn around the Pacific with his enthusiasm and willingness to do his gubernatorial duties.

This was overall a fun election and a sign that Atlasia is not quite dead yet.

[Supersonic]

Utterly superb results for our Party in the Senatorial elections! With Clarence and Hagrid in the Senate we can ensure a strong common sense conservative voice for Atlasia. Oh, and of course, congratulations to newly elected Pacific Whig Governor Spamage! Now lets all crack open a glass of the finest Atlasian virtual champagne.
Huzzah! Huzzah! Huzzah!

Edit: The Whig Party is now tied with the Imperial Bloc for largest IDS Party. -claps-

[Pingvin]

HUZZAH!!!!
*silently brings crate full with Smirnoff bottles to convention*

[Oldiesfreak1854]

HUZZAH!!!  
(Cracks open a champagne bottle and a bottle of ginger ale for self)

Boy, it sure would be nice if you could get Vernor's in bottles like this! :

(Shakes a bottle of Vernor's and, while turning away, opens it, blowing off the cap.)

I propose a toast to our party's new at-large Senators, Clarence and Hagrid, and to our new Pacific Governor, Spamage.
(Lifts glass to toast)
Cheers!

[Donerail]

Edit: The Whig Party is now tied with the Imperial Bloc for largest IDS Party. -claps-

The Imperial Bloc is the largest IDS party if you discount members of the Whig Party who have been banned. -claps-