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| | |-+  Do you think Obama believes in Socialism / Do you believe in Socialism?
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Author Topic: Do you think Obama believes in Socialism / Do you believe in Socialism?  (Read 5052 times)
R2D2
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« Reply #75 on: August 05, 2012, 01:35:24 pm »
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How anyone could take a chart like that even half seriously is beyond me.

This.
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« Reply #76 on: August 05, 2012, 02:22:05 pm »
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How anyone could take a chart like that even half seriously is beyond me.

This.
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« Reply #77 on: August 05, 2012, 06:28:37 pm »
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Socialism is government ownership over the primary means of production. Does Obama want the government to nationalize FedEx, Apple, WalMart, and Boeing? The question is absurd. Of course not. And no, I do not believe in Socialism. It was discredited decades ago.

This. However, Obama is undeniably anti-business, does not demonstrate an understanding and appreciation of markets, and believes strongly in government intervention in the form of regulatory burdens along with the subsidization of failed/failing/will-fail entities at the expense of successful entities. Obama is not openly socialist, but that may be solely due to political constraints. Or maybe not. In your heart, you know he's not forthright.

When business leaders go and beg for corporate welfare, why shouldn't they be given conditions? And trying to save entities that're circling the drain stops a weak business from further weakening the market from top to bottom.

When Obama gets call a socialist, it just doesn't add up. It's just a hackish line because the GOP has no better, substantive attack on policies like the auto bailout. In yours guts, you know they're nuts.
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« Reply #78 on: August 05, 2012, 06:41:35 pm »
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How anyone could take a chart like that even half seriously is beyond me.

I think you just don't like charts
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« Reply #79 on: August 05, 2012, 06:42:02 pm »
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How anyone could take a chart like that even half seriously is beyond me.

I think you just don't like charts

I for one love charts, but I don't like that chart.
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I didn't really read it, tbh.
AmericanNation
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« Reply #80 on: August 05, 2012, 07:02:04 pm »
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Typically it is correct form to state a reason or make an argument for your opinion, that way you don't look like childish hacks.  Maybe you three could try it, or come back when you're grownups.   
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« Reply #81 on: August 05, 2012, 08:07:41 pm »
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Typically it is correct form to state a reason or make an argument for your opinion, that way you don't look like childish hacks.  Maybe you three could try it, or come back when you're grownups.   

If something is self-evidently idiotic to the extent that that chart happens to be, then there is no point in going to the trouble of pointing out what is wrong with it. This is because the only people who don't already understand that, yes, the chart is clearly the product of a diseased mind, are the sort of people who are generally not worth engaging with in any detail.

I do so hope that things are clear now.
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« Reply #82 on: August 05, 2012, 08:13:49 pm »
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Typically it is correct form to state a reason or make an argument for your opinion, that way you don't look like childish hacks.  Maybe you three could try it, or come back when you're grownups.   

If something is self-evidently idiotic to the extent that that chart happens to be, then there is no point in going to the trouble of pointing out what is wrong with it. This is because the only people who don't already understand that, yes, the chart is clearly the product of a diseased mind, are the sort of people who are generally not worth engaging with in any detail.

I do so hope that things are clear now.
...and yet you wrote 5 lines instead of naming a single thing. Pathetic. 
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« Reply #83 on: August 05, 2012, 08:19:35 pm »
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The point is there's no need to 'name' anything as the 'problems' with that remarkable chart are obvious to anyone with three functioning brain cells and occasional access to logical thought. If you can look at it and not see the 'problems' immediately, then...
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The Finns they hate the Russians and the Russians hate the Yids
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Hatred's blowin in the wind; 10 million outcasts"
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« Reply #84 on: August 05, 2012, 08:23:02 pm »
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The point is there's no need to 'name' anything as the 'problems' with that remarkable chart are obvious to anyone with three functioning brain cells and occasional access to logical thought. If you can look at it and not see the 'problems' immediately, then...

You actually understood that mess of a chart?  You clearly are a better man than I. I looked at it, and got a headache, and required "medication" myself. Nothing is so obfuscatory than this ideologically Venn diagram boxing mania. I hate it!
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Sibboleth
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« Reply #85 on: August 05, 2012, 08:25:55 pm »
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The point is there's no need to 'name' anything as the 'problems' with that remarkable chart are obvious to anyone with three functioning brain cells and occasional access to logical thought. If you can look at it and not see the 'problems' immediately, then...

You actually understood that mess of a chart?  You clearly are a better man than I. I looked at it, and got a headache, and required "medication" myself. Nothing is so obfuscatory than this ideologically Venn diagram boxing mania. I hate it!

No, no, no. That reaction means that you understood it (at the level at which understanding it matters) as well!
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The Finns they hate the Russians and the Russians hate the Yids
Spicks and Wops and Greasers; Kikes and Spades and Ginny Hens
Hatred's blowin in the wind; 10 million outcasts"
AmericanNation
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« Reply #86 on: August 05, 2012, 09:02:22 pm »
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The point is there's no need to 'name' anything as the 'problems' with that remarkable chart are obvious to anyone with three functioning brain cells and occasional access to logical thought. If you can look at it and not see the 'problems' immediately, then...

You actually understood that mess of a chart?  You clearly are a better man than I. I looked at it, and got a headache, and required "medication" myself. Nothing is so obfuscatory than this ideologically Venn diagram boxing mania. I hate it!

No, no, no. That reaction means that you understood it (at the level at which understanding it matters) as well!
I'm not in love with the thing, but it has some really nice elements.  If Plato had reflected on the last 300 years he would have come up with something like that.  So to use words like "idiotic" and "diseased mind" is really quite remarkable.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 09:23:58 pm by AmericanNation »Logged

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« Reply #87 on: August 05, 2012, 09:07:57 pm »
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The point is there's no need to 'name' anything as the 'problems' with that remarkable chart are obvious to anyone with three functioning brain cells and occasional access to logical thought. If you can look at it and not see the 'problems' immediately, then...

You actually understood that mess of a chart?  You clearly are a better man than I. I looked at it, and got a headache, and required "medication" myself. Nothing is so obfuscatory than this ideologically Venn diagram boxing mania. I hate it!

No, no, no. That reaction means that you understood it (at the level at which understanding it matters) as well!
I'm not in love with thing, but it has some really nice elements.  If Plato had reflected on the last 300 years he would have come up with something like that.  So to use words like "idiotic" and "diseased mind" is really quite remarkable.

YOU've heard of Plato? That's a funny joke...
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AmericanNation
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« Reply #88 on: August 05, 2012, 09:21:50 pm »
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The point is there's no need to 'name' anything as the 'problems' with that remarkable chart are obvious to anyone with three functioning brain cells and occasional access to logical thought. If you can look at it and not see the 'problems' immediately, then...

You actually understood that mess of a chart?  You clearly are a better man than I. I looked at it, and got a headache, and required "medication" myself. Nothing is so obfuscatory than this ideologically Venn diagram boxing mania. I hate it!

No, no, no. That reaction means that you understood it (at the level at which understanding it matters) as well!
I'm not in love with the thing, but it has some really nice elements.  If Plato had reflected on the last 300 years he would have come up with something like that.  So to use words like "idiotic" and "diseased mind" is really quite remarkable.

YOU've heard of Plato? That's a funny joke...
"The benefits of a classical education"
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Seriously though, I probably read half his work by the time I was 15.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2012, 09:24:21 pm by AmericanNation »Logged

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« Reply #89 on: August 05, 2012, 09:36:30 pm »
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Socialism can also refer to Government Over-spending.  For example, the Bush Government spent a lot of money, resources, and manpower for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and a vast majority of Americans disagreed with that Big Government policy, so they voted for Obama in 2008. 

this is good stuff.  Iraq invasion = socialism.
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« Reply #90 on: August 05, 2012, 09:38:50 pm »
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Hahaha if Obama is a Socialist, then the Republicans are Communists.

a relevant point -- the contemporary GOP more closely resembles a Soviet bloc Communist party than it does the 'traditional' political parties of the New Deal thru Reagan period.
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“They cheated us again and again, made decisions behind our back, presenting us with completed facts. That’s the way it was with the expansion of NATO in the East, with the deployment of military infrastructure at our borders. They always told us the same thing: 'Well, this doesn't concern you.'" -Vladimir Putin
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« Reply #91 on: August 05, 2012, 09:39:35 pm »
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How anyone could take a chart like that even half seriously is beyond me.

it looks like it is out of Lacanian psychoanalysis
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« Reply #92 on: August 06, 2012, 01:47:08 am »
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It looks like it's out of the Kennedy-era RAND Corporation is what it looks like.
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I didn't really read it, tbh.
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« Reply #93 on: August 06, 2012, 06:48:30 am »
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How anyone could take a chart like that even half seriously is beyond me.

I think you just don't like charts
No one who likes to actually understand what different ideologies are all about is going to have a modicum of respect for anybody who thinks that charts might be helpful in the endeavour.
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AmericanNation
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« Reply #94 on: August 06, 2012, 08:33:45 am »
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No one who likes to actually understand what different ideologies are all about is going to have a modicum of respect for anybody who thinks that charts might be helpful in the endeavour.
Why?  First thing you should do after something complex (600+ page book, an election, troubleshooting a piece of equipment worth hundreds of thousands, etc) is fit all the important information on a single piece of paper.  A map or a chart is a common end result of mastery.    
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 08:53:05 am by AmericanNation »Logged

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« Reply #95 on: August 06, 2012, 03:03:08 pm »
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Obama certainly has some socialistic views, but every President has views of one kind or other.

Any President still has to have Congressional support to implement their views.
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« Reply #96 on: August 06, 2012, 06:44:18 pm »
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Why?  First thing you should do after something complex (600+ page book, an election, troubleshooting a piece of equipment worth hundreds of thousands, etc) is fit all the important information on a single piece of paper.  A map or a chart is a common end result of mastery.    

Lay off the PCP, kiddo.
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"The Norwegians hate the Swedish and the Swedes they hate the Finns
The Finns they hate the Russians and the Russians hate the Yids
Spicks and Wops and Greasers; Kikes and Spades and Ginny Hens
Hatred's blowin in the wind; 10 million outcasts"
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« Reply #97 on: August 06, 2012, 06:44:55 pm »
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Plato had reflected on the last 300 years he would have come up with something like that.

You need help.
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"The Norwegians hate the Swedish and the Swedes they hate the Finns
The Finns they hate the Russians and the Russians hate the Yids
Spicks and Wops and Greasers; Kikes and Spades and Ginny Hens
Hatred's blowin in the wind; 10 million outcasts"
Sibboleth
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« Reply #98 on: August 06, 2012, 06:48:04 pm »
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I mean, seriously? This must be trolling, this has to be an act. Plato? Charts? Plato of the Charts? Time Travelling Plato of the Charts? Mind you, he would probably have been arrested for being a nonce were he to do that. Which would be amusing, I suppose. So someone needs to get working on that time machine!
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"The Norwegians hate the Swedish and the Swedes they hate the Finns
The Finns they hate the Russians and the Russians hate the Yids
Spicks and Wops and Greasers; Kikes and Spades and Ginny Hens
Hatred's blowin in the wind; 10 million outcasts"
Sibboleth
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« Reply #99 on: August 06, 2012, 06:49:00 pm »
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How anyone could take a chart like that even half seriously is beyond me.

it looks like it is out of Lacanian psychoanalysis

It looks like it's out of the Kennedy-era RAND Corporation is what it looks like.

Must these things contradict?
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"The Norwegians hate the Swedish and the Swedes they hate the Finns
The Finns they hate the Russians and the Russians hate the Yids
Spicks and Wops and Greasers; Kikes and Spades and Ginny Hens
Hatred's blowin in the wind; 10 million outcasts"
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