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Author Topic: Do you think Obama believes in Socialism / Do you believe in Socialism?  (Read 3990 times)
milhouse24
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« on: July 31, 2012, 11:43:27 am »
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Obama has created big government programs, policies, and oversight committees.  More recently, he has taken a more confrontational tone towards businesses, corporations, and capitalism with his "If you've got a business -- you didn't build that"

In addition, small business owners don't want to pay the new taxes/penalties for mandatory employee health care. 

But many liberals and 99% want to change capitalism and corporations, and prefer more government oversight than Obama has promised.  Many liberals support socialist programs and policies (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Knowing Obama's actions in the past 4 years, and his public statements, do you think Obama believes in Socialism?  Do you support socialism?
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« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2012, 11:56:31 am »
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Socialism is government ownership over the primary means of production. Does Obama want the government to nationalize FedEx, Apple, WalMart, and Boeing? The question is absurd. Of course not. And no, I do not believe in Socialism. It was discredited decades ago.
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Comrade Funk
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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2012, 12:05:52 pm »
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Teddy Roosevelt took a stand against corporations? Does that mean he's a socialist? Learn the meaning of the word before accusing people of it. And no, like Obama, I'm not a socialist.
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2012, 12:14:42 pm »
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How exactly is either answer relevant to policy?
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Torie
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2012, 12:29:35 pm »
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If "socialism" these days means cross subsidies, and government regulations over this and that, about 90% of the voters believe in "socialism" to some degree.  In fact, when you get down to brass tacks, and what is in fact practicable, the political football game is mostly being played somewhere between between center field and the 40 yard line on either side. So in that sense, the question is a "fail." It illuminates very little in either the asking or the answer.
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RogueBeaver
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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2012, 12:45:33 pm »
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No/No.
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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2012, 12:48:32 pm »
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Progressive rhetoric does not equate to Socialism, so no, the President isn't a socialist.
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Korwinist
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2012, 01:08:41 pm »
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No. He's more of a fascist, really
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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2012, 01:13:37 pm »
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LOL
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« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2012, 01:13:58 pm »
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Everybody believes in socialism to an extent, seeing as most people don't mind government funding roads, police and fire. If none of those things were socialized, people would want for them to be socialized due to paying high fees to companies for those services.
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A.G. Snowstalker
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« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2012, 01:16:55 pm »
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Socialism, like capitalism, is not a yes/no sort of thing. Nearly every American politician favors some sort of mix of both.
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Senator Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2012, 01:29:25 pm »
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No/Yes.
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« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2012, 02:03:16 pm »
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For once I wish the people who talk so much about socialism and its supposed dangers would actually take some time to learn what socialism is.

Everyone (except the survivalists tax dodgers hiding in the woods) is a socialist to some degree.
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milhouse24
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« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2012, 03:55:23 pm »
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Everybody believes in socialism to an extent, seeing as most people don't mind government funding roads, police and fire. If none of those things were socialized, people would want for them to be socialized due to paying high fees to companies for those services.

That's oversimplifying socialism.  There are some basic services like roads and police that citizens are willing to pay the government to do, or pay some private corporation to do, because it makes their lives easier and better and safer. 

The question is what is Big Government, and how many services and taxes can the Government force citizens to pay for with the excuse of "basic human requirement."  Then there is also individual choice of participating in government programs and personal freedom.   

Socialism can also refer to Government Over-spending.  For example, the Bush Government spent a lot of money, resources, and manpower for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and a vast majority of Americans disagreed with that Big Government policy, so they voted for Obama in 2008. 
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Torie
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« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2012, 03:58:36 pm »
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In sum Milhouse, spending that you don't like is "socialism," and spending that you like isn't.  It would have been helpful if you had provided us with your rather sui generis yet narcissistic definition of the word in the first instance don't you think?
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« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2012, 03:58:55 pm »
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Not this bullsh**t again.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2012, 03:59:42 pm »
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I would like to know what "belief in Socialism" is even supposed to mean. It's not a religion or even a totalitarian ideology (though several of the sort have thrived under the umbrella name... but if any of those are what's meant, the answer is so obviously "lolno/lolno" as to... uh... I can't think of a fitting simile.)
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« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2012, 04:16:40 pm »
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You want big government? Look at this diagram.

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« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2012, 04:18:25 pm »
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I would like to know what "belief in Socialism" is even supposed to mean. It's not a religion or even a totalitarian ideology (though several of the sort have thrived under the umbrella name... but if any of those are what's meant, the answer is so obviously "lolno/lolno" as to... uh... I can't think of a fitting simile.)

By 'believes in socialism' they mean - 'dares not to believe in neoliberal capitalism'.

I think they mean more that one is an economic agnostic regarding their blind faith, not that one is actually a 'socialist' (atheist).  Of course such distinctions are lost in their mush-brains.
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Vosem
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« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2012, 04:24:21 pm »
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No but he's not as hostile as I'd like him to be/Of course not.

I would like to know what "belief in Socialism" is even supposed to mean. It's not a religion or even a totalitarian ideology (though several of the sort have thrived under the umbrella name... but if any of those are what's meant, the answer is so obviously "lolno/lolno" as to... uh... I can't think of a fitting simile.)

By 'believes in socialism' they mean - 'dares not to believe in neoliberal capitalism'.

I think they mean more that one is an economic agnostic regarding their blind faith, not that one is actually a 'socialist' (atheist).  Of course such distinctions are lost in their mush-brains.

Not believing in neoliberal capitalism isn't very much better than believing in socialism, opebo.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2012, 04:25:16 pm »
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I would like to know what "belief in Socialism" is even supposed to mean. It's not a religion or even a totalitarian ideology (though several of the sort have thrived under the umbrella name... but if any of those are what's meant, the answer is so obviously "lolno/lolno" as to... uh... I can't think of a fitting simile.)

By 'believes in socialism' they mean - 'dares not to believe in neoliberal capitalism'.
.
Well yeah, as that actually is a totalitarian ersatzreligion.
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« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2012, 04:46:53 pm »
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By 'believes in socialism' they mean - 'dares not to believe in neoliberal capitalism'.
Well yeah, as that actually is a totalitarian ersatzreligion.

Precisely, Lewis, and here he is to prove that point:

Not believing in neoliberal capitalism isn't very much better than believing in socialism, opebo.
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« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2012, 05:35:17 pm »
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What a f***ing idiotic question...

Please understand what socialism is... and not the paranoid American definition...

But if I humour you... no, he doesn't believe in socialism and neither do I
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« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2012, 05:57:58 pm »
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Obama is, by a global standard (and even an American one), much more right-wing than many of his supporters and opponents would care to admit.
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DrScholl
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« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2012, 06:13:02 pm »
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That's oversimplifying socialism.  There are some basic services like roads and police that citizens are willing to pay the government to do, or pay some private corporation to do, because it makes their lives easier and better and safer. 

The question is what is Big Government, and how many services and taxes can the Government force citizens to pay for with the excuse of "basic human requirement."  Then there is also individual choice of participating in government programs and personal freedom.   

Socialism can also refer to Government Over-spending.  For example, the Bush Government spent a lot of money, resources, and manpower for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and a vast majority of Americans disagreed with that Big Government policy, so they voted for Obama in 2008. 

Any government spending on services is socialism, period. Overspending has nothing to do with socialism or capitalism, but gross mismanagement.
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