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| | |-+  Citizen Kane has been dethroned.
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Author Topic: Citizen Kane has been dethroned.  (Read 495 times)
Tetro Kornbluth
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« on: August 03, 2012, 01:04:43 pm »
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At least so says the now conventional wisdom.. (The S & S critics poll being as close to CW as you can get in the film world).

A good choice, I think, even if not mine personally. These sorts of canocial debates get stodgy with consensus (Yes, I'm very aware of the stupidity of the concept of a canon. But never with the notion of list making - it's fun) though perhaps it is worth noting that there is no film from a more recent year than 1968(!) in the list though there are three silent films.

I think this is the link (I say I think because with my current crappy Wifi connection, it doesn't fully load for me). Somewhat peeved to have only seen 6 of the top 10 and 23 of the top 50. I've got some watching to do.

The Directors' poll is interesting too. And also a non-Anglophone winner. Yay! (Even if it is a film I didn't really shine to when I saw it).

Thoughts?
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Keith R Laws ‏@Keith_Laws  Feb 4
As I have noted before 'paradigm shift' is an anagram of 'grasp dim faith'
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« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2012, 02:49:49 pm »
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The first list has far too much of a bias towards 20's and 30's film.
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« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2012, 03:42:26 pm »
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I honestly have no clue how one could objectively evaluate art and, having only seen two of the fifty films in the list, I am not really in any position to offer a nuanced critique.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2012, 04:08:04 pm »
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I honestly have no clue how one could objectively evaluate art and, having only seen two of the fifty films in the list, I am not really in any position to offer a nuanced critique.

It's not meant to be 'objective', only a survey of critical opinion.
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Keith R Laws ‏@Keith_Laws  Feb 4
As I have noted before 'paradigm shift' is an anagram of 'grasp dim faith'
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« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2012, 04:10:41 pm »
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Putting so many films from the 1920s in this list is silly. Yeah, Battleship Potemkin is a cool film and very innovative for its time, but pretending it's better than films with actual acting, stories, more advanced camerawork, etc is ridiculous.
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« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2012, 04:38:14 pm »
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The director's list makes more sense to me as a top ten.  The S & S list seems to rely too much on the key films that defined a technique of cinematic art, perhaps they looked at cinema more as poetry. The director's list leans more on those that perfected those arts as a complete story, more like reviewing great literature.

I can say that I'm familiar with 4 of 10 from S & S, but 8 of 10 from the directors. I have no familiarity with Ozu's work however, and always thought that Kurosawa was the pinnacle of Japanese filmmaking.
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« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2012, 05:45:06 pm »
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I discovered a while ago that I don't really like Hitchcock, so...
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« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2012, 05:52:56 pm »
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I've seen both but I preferred Citizen Kane. Vertigo gets good in the last thirty minutes, but it started off rather slow, in my opinion. Not the greatest movie of all time.
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« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2012, 06:04:17 pm »
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Anybody who thinks of Kurosawa, who is admittedly brilliant, as the best Japanese filmmaking gets needs to discover Mizoguchi.
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« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2012, 06:11:14 pm »
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It's not meant to be 'objective', only a survey of critical opinion.

Basically, yes. And it's the sort of thing that's 'only' interesting for that reason.
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Tetro Kornbluth
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« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2012, 06:49:50 pm »
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I discovered a while ago that I don't really like Hitchcock, so...

Oh really? That does surprise me somewhat. I could certainly see you saying "I discovered a while ago that I don't really like Kubrick". Any idea why?

Also this:

I honestly have no clue how one could objectively evaluate art and, having only seen two of the fifty films in the list, I am not really in any position to offer a nuanced critique.

It's not meant to be 'objective', only a survey of critical opinion.

Completely agree.

Also these lists bring attention to films outside the mainstream, which is good. The same films always win popular polls. In what popular poll is A man with a movie camera going to feature? (This should not be read as a slur against popular polls).

****

As for Potemkin, that actually does have a plot and story line unlike A Man with a Movie Camera. Not that I prefer the Eisenstein to the Vertov film whose inclusion was a (good) surprise for me. It is a silent soviet (very soviet - NEP era soviet) avant-garde film from the late 1920s and it is still ahead of its time.

Anyone willing to try and put their own top ten. I have been thinking about but other than Once Upon a time in America (not in the S & S top 50 - boo!) I'm not sure of any particular film. Cronenberg and Welles would have to be represented though.
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Keith R Laws ‏@Keith_Laws  Feb 4
As I have noted before 'paradigm shift' is an anagram of 'grasp dim faith'
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« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2012, 06:51:07 pm »
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Putting so many films from the 1920s in this list is silly. Yeah, Battleship Potemkin is a cool film and very innovative for its time, but pretending it's better than films with actual acting, stories, more advanced camerawork, etc is ridiculous.

Have you seen any of the other three silents mentioned?
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Keith R Laws ‏@Keith_Laws  Feb 4
As I have noted before 'paradigm shift' is an anagram of 'grasp dim faith'
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« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2012, 08:51:12 pm »
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Oh really? That does surprise me somewhat. I could certainly see you saying "I discovered a while ago that I don't really like Kubrick". Any idea why?

Not really, no. It's not even really a case of disliking or even of his films just not doing anything for me*; more a feeling that they go so far but not really far enough (too tired right now to find the right sort of words), leading to some kind of vague disappointment that's hard to shake.

*Which, yeah, is the case with most Kubrick I find. With the obvious (clichéd) exception.
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« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2012, 02:10:27 am »
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Putting so many films from the 1920s in this list is silly. Yeah, Battleship Potemkin is a cool film and very innovative for its time, but pretending it's better than films with actual acting, stories, more advanced camerawork, etc is ridiculous.

Have you seen any of the other three silents mentioned?

Hah, no, I suppose I should.
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« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2012, 05:06:54 am »
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I've always liked Citizen Kane more than Vertigo, so I sort of disagree with this call.

Interesting list, but there are too many good films throughout history for such lists to make sense, imo.
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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2012, 12:49:40 am »
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Vertigo is amazing, but The Godfather Parts I and II are the best films of all-time IMHO. I also have to give "mad props" to Paths of Glory and 2001: A Space Odyssey.
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« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2012, 01:06:55 am »
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Best films lists like these are more about importance than perfect quality.   They all had a huge impact on the direction movies took to this point today and, since they're all snotty intellectuals, the lists will only get shuffled and never change as the most impactful films after 1980 took movies in a direction they don't want to celebrate.
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« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2012, 04:48:52 am »
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I miss Fritz Lang or Kurosawa in this list and I think that Space Odyssey may be overrated (I prefer Kubrick's "Paths of Glory"). Personal tastes. I haven't seen "Tokyo Stories" nor "Mirror", any opinion about these films?
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« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2012, 10:13:39 pm »
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Those neither my favorite Hitchcock nor Kubrick films.
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