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| |-+  Individual Politics (Moderators: Grad Students are the Worst, Torie, Sheriff Buford TX Justice)
| | |-+  Opinion of Enoch Powell
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Question: Opinion of Enoch Powell
FF   -10 (24.4%)
HP   -31 (75.6%)
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Total Voters: 41

Author Topic: Opinion of Enoch Powell  (Read 1567 times)
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Nathan
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« on: August 06, 2012, 12:37:37 am »
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This should be interesting.
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A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 04:54:59 am »
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Arch-HP, though an unusually interesting one.
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 08:41:50 am »
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What a strange and interesting man. HP for being a racist and hating America.
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2012, 09:53:07 am »
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What a strange and interesting man. HP for being a racist and hating America.

Agreed. Fascinating that he was a friend of Tony Benn, who seems like a natural arch-nemesis to him in terms of political views, at least from my viewpoint over the pond.
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Pope Kalwejt I of Northeast
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 10:00:35 am »
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What a strange and interesting man. HP for being a racist and hating America.

Agreed. Fascinating that he was a friend of Tony Benn, who seems like a natural arch-nemesis to him in terms of political views, at least from my viewpoint over the pond.

Having personal friends from the very other side of the spectrum is not so unusual in politics. To use more recent example: Barack Obama and Tom Coburn.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2012, 10:02:06 am »
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Eh. Members of the tiny minority in Parliament that is actually capable of independent thought are going to be attracted to each other. Even if the results are less than stellar advertisements for independent thought.
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"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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Obamaisdabest
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2012, 10:42:06 am »
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Awful.
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2012, 11:46:51 am »
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Brought out the worst in British society. HP.
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Senator Cynic
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« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2012, 01:41:51 pm »
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Massively horrible person.
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Supersonic
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« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2012, 01:43:26 pm »
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A true Freedom Fighter.
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« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2012, 01:45:04 pm »
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Something of an FF on economics and NI but overall major HP.
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7.35, 3.65

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Senator TNF
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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2012, 05:08:04 pm »
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HP.
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Acting like I'm Morrissey w/o the wit
Leftbehind
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« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2012, 05:09:17 pm »
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Arch-HP, though an unusually interesting one.

Couldn't have put it better. Even looked liked a stereotypical Hollywood English villain.

Watching footage from the CBC archive the other day, and in their report about Bloody Sunday they asked various MPs and he was one of them. His response was fairly characteristic (at around the 10 minute mark).
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ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2012, 06:23:47 pm »
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A true FF. He was indeed a mega racist, but I admire his ability to speak his mind, even when it cost him. I think Rivers of Blood was a racist, hateful speech attacking Africans (many of whom were British to begin with, seeing as they came from the various colonies) living in Britain, but the context of it (that a national heritage was at risk of being lost instead of the immigrants assimilating) was and is great a great warning to all people in all countries that their cultures are at risk.

I think the speech is highly worth reading, regardless your opinion of Enoch Powell.
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« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2012, 06:36:52 pm »
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On the one hand his racism and race-baiting does have to be seen in context (by the standards of Midlands Tories he wasn't even particularly racist; Frank Griffin - leader of Birmingham City Council in the late 1960s - once proposed officially segregating new housing developments in the city according to 'race', to say nothing of other Black Country Tories like the charming Peter Griffiths and the delightful John Heydon Stokes) but on the other he was rather articulate and helped to make racism respectable in the Midlands, at least for a couple of decades.
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"I have become entangled in my own data, and my conclusion stands in direct contradiction to the initial idea from which I started. Proceeding from unlimited freedom, I end with unlimited despotism. I will add, however, that there can be no solution of the social formula except mine."
Antonio V
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« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2012, 07:18:12 pm »
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A true FF. He was indeed a mega racist, but I admire his ability to speak his mind, even when it cost him. I think Rivers of Blood was a racist, hateful speech attacking Africans (many of whom were British to begin with, seeing as they came from the various colonies) living in Britain, but the context of it (that a national heritage was at risk of being lost instead of the immigrants assimilating) was and is great a great warning to all people in all countries that their cultures are at risk.

I think the speech is highly worth reading, regardless your opinion of Enoch Powell.

I fail to imagine a way for these two attributes not to be mutually exclusive. At least not for a 20th century figure.
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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



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ChairmanSanchez
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« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2012, 07:25:15 pm »
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A true FF. He was indeed a mega racist, but I admire his ability to speak his mind, even when it cost him. I think Rivers of Blood was a racist, hateful speech attacking Africans (many of whom were British to begin with, seeing as they came from the various colonies) living in Britain, but the context of it (that a national heritage was at risk of being lost instead of the immigrants assimilating) was and is great a great warning to all people in all countries that their cultures are at risk.

I think the speech is highly worth reading, regardless your opinion of Enoch Powell.

I fail to imagine a way for these two attributes not to be mutually exclusive. At least not for a 20th century figure.
I suppose the part I bolded was your point; I was going to argue the whole Lincoln/White Supremacy thing (which is not proven). Even in the 20th and 21st centuries, many of our leaders are racist, but they, for political purposes, do not allow their own bias to influence decisions. It is more common than you would think, but just being called racist is automatic death in American politics these days.
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If a burial strikes my family as too practical, I'd go for either a viking funeral on one of the Great Lakes or to be sealed up in a tomb with my closest servants and bang-maids so they may wait on my every need in the afterlife.
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« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2012, 07:37:11 pm »
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Arch-HP, though an unusually interesting one.

Couldn't have put it better. Even looked liked a stereotypical Hollywood English villain.


I think the unfortunate Ewart Biggs had him beat in caricatured English villain look.

My opinion of Powell is low.
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Antonio V
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« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2012, 07:45:38 pm »
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A true FF. He was indeed a mega racist, but I admire his ability to speak his mind, even when it cost him. I think Rivers of Blood was a racist, hateful speech attacking Africans (many of whom were British to begin with, seeing as they came from the various colonies) living in Britain, but the context of it (that a national heritage was at risk of being lost instead of the immigrants assimilating) was and is great a great warning to all people in all countries that their cultures are at risk.

I think the speech is highly worth reading, regardless your opinion of Enoch Powell.

I fail to imagine a way for these two attributes not to be mutually exclusive. At least not for a 20th century figure.
I suppose the part I bolded was your point; I was going to argue the whole Lincoln/White Supremacy thing (which is not proven). Even in the 20th and 21st centuries, many of our leaders are racist, but they, for political purposes, do not allow their own bias to influence decisions. It is more common than you would think, but just being called racist is automatic death in American politics these days.

My point still stands. If a contemporary personality is proven a racist, there is no way I can consider it a good person.
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Quote from: IRC
22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

It really is.



"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
Pope Kalwejt I of Northeast
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« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2012, 07:53:06 pm »
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On the one hand his racism and race-baiting does have to be seen in context (by the standards of Midlands Tories he wasn't even particularly racist; Frank Griffin - leader of Birmingham City Council in the late 1960s - once proposed officially segregating new housing developments in the city according to 'race'

Wrong Birmingham, lol.
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« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2012, 08:44:32 pm »
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A villain that possesses all the qualities I'm inclined to hate.
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« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 01:32:56 am »
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Racist = HP.
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There is a lot of humor to be mined from this as the mind of LBJ in the body of an 18 month old baby girl is quite hilarious.

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« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2012, 02:01:55 am »
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Now that we have a conversation going (which seems to have a consensus of at least some kind) I'd like to say that I entirely agree with Lewis Trondheim's assessment. He's the sort of person you want played by Christopher Lee in a biopic or something.
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A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
Rhodie
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« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2012, 07:31:48 am »
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Better than Tony Benn or Harold Wilson.
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Social score: +2.61

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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2012, 12:14:33 pm »
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Arch-HP, though an unusually interesting one.

Couldn't have put it better. Even looked liked a stereotypical Hollywood English villain.
Are you sure he didn't simply define the type?
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"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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