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| | |-+  Opinion of Enoch Powell
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Question: Opinion of Enoch Powell
FF   -10 (24.4%)
HP   -31 (75.6%)
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Total Voters: 41

Author Topic: Opinion of Enoch Powell  (Read 1451 times)
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Nathan
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« on: August 06, 2012, 12:37:37 am »
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This should be interesting.
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A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2012, 04:54:59 am »
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Arch-HP, though an unusually interesting one.
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Speaker Dereich
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« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2012, 08:41:50 am »
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What a strange and interesting man. HP for being a racist and hating America.
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2012, 09:53:07 am »
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What a strange and interesting man. HP for being a racist and hating America.

Agreed. Fascinating that he was a friend of Tony Benn, who seems like a natural arch-nemesis to him in terms of political views, at least from my viewpoint over the pond.
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« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2012, 10:00:35 am »
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What a strange and interesting man. HP for being a racist and hating America.

Agreed. Fascinating that he was a friend of Tony Benn, who seems like a natural arch-nemesis to him in terms of political views, at least from my viewpoint over the pond.

Having personal friends from the very other side of the spectrum is not so unusual in politics. To use more recent example: Barack Obama and Tom Coburn.
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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2012, 10:02:06 am »
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Eh. Members of the tiny minority in Parliament that is actually capable of independent thought are going to be attracted to each other. Even if the results are less than stellar advertisements for independent thought.
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"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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Obamaisdabest
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« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2012, 10:42:06 am »
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Awful.
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« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2012, 11:46:51 am »
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Brought out the worst in British society. HP.
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Lt. Governor Dr. Cynic
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« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2012, 01:41:51 pm »
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Massively horrible person.
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Supersonic
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« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2012, 01:43:26 pm »
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A true Freedom Fighter.
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« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2012, 01:45:04 pm »
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Something of an FF on economics and NI but overall major HP.
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Senator TNF
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« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2012, 05:08:04 pm »
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HP.
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Leftbehind
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« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2012, 05:09:17 pm »
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Arch-HP, though an unusually interesting one.

Couldn't have put it better. Even looked liked a stereotypical Hollywood English villain.

Watching footage from the CBC archive the other day, and in their report about Bloody Sunday they asked various MPs and he was one of them. His response was fairly characteristic (at around the 10 minute mark).
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« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2012, 06:23:47 pm »
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A true FF. He was indeed a mega racist, but I admire his ability to speak his mind, even when it cost him. I think Rivers of Blood was a racist, hateful speech attacking Africans (many of whom were British to begin with, seeing as they came from the various colonies) living in Britain, but the context of it (that a national heritage was at risk of being lost instead of the immigrants assimilating) was and is great a great warning to all people in all countries that their cultures are at risk.

I think the speech is highly worth reading, regardless your opinion of Enoch Powell.
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Sibboleth Bist
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« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2012, 06:36:52 pm »
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On the one hand his racism and race-baiting does have to be seen in context (by the standards of Midlands Tories he wasn't even particularly racist; Frank Griffin - leader of Birmingham City Council in the late 1960s - once proposed officially segregating new housing developments in the city according to 'race', to say nothing of other Black Country Tories like the charming Peter Griffiths and the delightful John Heydon Stokes) but on the other he was rather articulate and helped to make racism respectable in the Midlands, at least for a couple of decades.
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Scottish Robb Stark
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« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2012, 07:18:12 pm »
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A true FF. He was indeed a mega racist, but I admire his ability to speak his mind, even when it cost him. I think Rivers of Blood was a racist, hateful speech attacking Africans (many of whom were British to begin with, seeing as they came from the various colonies) living in Britain, but the context of it (that a national heritage was at risk of being lost instead of the immigrants assimilating) was and is great a great warning to all people in all countries that their cultures are at risk.

I think the speech is highly worth reading, regardless your opinion of Enoch Powell.

I fail to imagine a way for these two attributes not to be mutually exclusive. At least not for a 20th century figure.
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« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2012, 07:25:15 pm »
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A true FF. He was indeed a mega racist, but I admire his ability to speak his mind, even when it cost him. I think Rivers of Blood was a racist, hateful speech attacking Africans (many of whom were British to begin with, seeing as they came from the various colonies) living in Britain, but the context of it (that a national heritage was at risk of being lost instead of the immigrants assimilating) was and is great a great warning to all people in all countries that their cultures are at risk.

I think the speech is highly worth reading, regardless your opinion of Enoch Powell.

I fail to imagine a way for these two attributes not to be mutually exclusive. At least not for a 20th century figure.
I suppose the part I bolded was your point; I was going to argue the whole Lincoln/White Supremacy thing (which is not proven). Even in the 20th and 21st centuries, many of our leaders are racist, but they, for political purposes, do not allow their own bias to influence decisions. It is more common than you would think, but just being called racist is automatic death in American politics these days.
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« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2012, 07:37:11 pm »
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Arch-HP, though an unusually interesting one.

Couldn't have put it better. Even looked liked a stereotypical Hollywood English villain.


I think the unfortunate Ewart Biggs had him beat in caricatured English villain look.

My opinion of Powell is low.
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Scottish Robb Stark
Antonio V
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« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2012, 07:45:38 pm »
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A true FF. He was indeed a mega racist, but I admire his ability to speak his mind, even when it cost him. I think Rivers of Blood was a racist, hateful speech attacking Africans (many of whom were British to begin with, seeing as they came from the various colonies) living in Britain, but the context of it (that a national heritage was at risk of being lost instead of the immigrants assimilating) was and is great a great warning to all people in all countries that their cultures are at risk.

I think the speech is highly worth reading, regardless your opinion of Enoch Powell.

I fail to imagine a way for these two attributes not to be mutually exclusive. At least not for a 20th century figure.
I suppose the part I bolded was your point; I was going to argue the whole Lincoln/White Supremacy thing (which is not proven). Even in the 20th and 21st centuries, many of our leaders are racist, but they, for political purposes, do not allow their own bias to influence decisions. It is more common than you would think, but just being called racist is automatic death in American politics these days.

My point still stands. If a contemporary personality is proven a racist, there is no way I can consider it a good person.
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Robb of the House Stark, First of his Name, Lord of Winterfell and King in the North



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22:15   ComradeSibboleth   this is all extremely terrible and in all respects absolutely fycking dire.

"A reformist is someone who realizes that, when you bang your head on a wall, it's the head that breaks rather than the wall."

Peppino, from the movie Baaria
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Kalwejt
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« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2012, 07:53:06 pm »
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On the one hand his racism and race-baiting does have to be seen in context (by the standards of Midlands Tories he wasn't even particularly racist; Frank Griffin - leader of Birmingham City Council in the late 1960s - once proposed officially segregating new housing developments in the city according to 'race'

Wrong Birmingham, lol.
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TheDeadFlagBlues
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« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2012, 08:44:32 pm »
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A villain that possesses all the qualities I'm inclined to hate.
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Senator Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2012, 01:32:56 am »
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Racist = HP.
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Nathan
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« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2012, 02:01:55 am »
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Now that we have a conversation going (which seems to have a consensus of at least some kind) I'd like to say that I entirely agree with Lewis Trondheim's assessment. He's the sort of person you want played by Christopher Lee in a biopic or something.
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A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
Rhodie
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« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2012, 07:31:48 am »
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Better than Tony Benn or Harold Wilson.
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"Freedom. And Justice. If you have those two, it covers everything. You must stick to those principles and have the courage of your convictions"

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Lewis Trondheim
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« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2012, 12:14:33 pm »
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Arch-HP, though an unusually interesting one.

Couldn't have put it better. Even looked liked a stereotypical Hollywood English villain.
Are you sure he didn't simply define the type?
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"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
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