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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: Antarctic Incorporation Act (Failed)  (Read 1409 times)
Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: August 06, 2012, 03:28:58 pm »
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A Bill

Be it enacted by the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia assembled.

This bill shall be entitled the "Antarctic Incorporation Act".

1) The area between the meridian 90° west of Greenwich and the meridian 150° west of Greenwich that lies south of the 60th parallel south, excluding that already claimed by any other sovereign nation and that which lies in international waters, shall be incorporated into the State of Byrd and abbreviated as 'BY'"
2) Byrd shall become the 12th state of the Imperial Dominion of the South.
3) All other areas south of the 60th parallel south are eligible to join the State of Byrd should they choose to do so by democratic means or, if uninhabited, the claiming government hands them over to Atlasian control.

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« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 08:28:22 pm by Senator North Carolina Yankee »Logged

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Senator Meiji (D-NC)
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2012, 08:29:06 am »
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Under the Antarctic Treaty, Atlasia has reserved rights to claim territory below 60° South; it is time to exercise such a right before the Russians and Brazilians do. Such a claim would allow Atlasian scientists a legitimate base for Antarctic exploration and also claim Atlasian rights to whatever future valuable materials could be found in the sector. The sector is currently unclaimed and claiming it would not claim land currently claimed by another country; indeed, this bill would simply formalize claims to Marie Byrd Land established by the Atlasian Antarctic Service Expedition, which this directive suggests would be a solid base for a claim. The President has expressed his support for the measure.

I am looking at claiming Antarctica to be Atlasian land and given that it is about as south as you can get there is only one place to put it. Wink
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2012, 10:25:21 am »
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I have some very serious reservations about this legislation.

Seizing this territory could make it more difficult for Argentina, Chile, and the United Kingdom to settle their territorial disputes, create new tensions with Russia and Norway - the former of which is accustomed to conducting its Antarctic business wherever it pleases with impunity and the latter claiming Peter I Island, a parcel of territory that falls within the zone specified for this IDS / Atlasian claim, and jeopardize more than half a century's work to keep the Antarctic continent free of militarization. This new state of Byrd would need to have no military defenses and allow unfettered access to foreign scientists. Otherwise it will seem as though Atlasia has taken on a much more aggressive, expansionist foreign policy.

It also happens to be my position that developing countries would benefit from claims to new resources found in Antarctica much more than Atlasia ever could in terms of overall potential for human development and, even if claiming this territory were a good idea, it's location clearly makes it better suited for incorporation into the People's Region of the Pacific than into the Imperial Dominion of the South. And no, I'm not only saying this because it could potentially lend me a little more leverage to exert in my region's irredentist claim to New Mexico. ^^

Sam, can you explain to me how this claim would yield positive outcomes for humanity as a whole?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 10:31:03 am by Redalgo »Logged

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Senator Meiji (D-NC)
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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2012, 02:31:42 pm »
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A Bill

Be it enacted by the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia assembled.

This bill shall be entitled the "Antarctic Incorporation Act".

1) The area between the meridian 90° west of Greenwich and the meridian 150° west of Greenwich that lies south of the 60th parallel south, excluding that already claimed by any other sovereign nation and that which lies in international waters, shall be incorporated into the State of Byrd and abbreviated as 'BY'"
2) Byrd shall become the 12th state of the Imperial Dominion of the South.
3) All other areas south of the 60th parallel south are eligible to join the State of Byrd should they choose to do so by democratic means or, if uninhabited, the claiming government hands them over to Atlasian control.
4) No military forces of the Republic of Atlasia shall be stationed in the State of Byrd unless the state is directly attacked by foreign military forces.
5) Foreign scientists shall be allowed to continue their activities within the State of Byrd and shall not be inhibited by it becoming part of Atlasia.

These two amendments should attempt to satisfy such concerns. The issue with Norway is addressed in the 1st article (excluding any territory claimed by any other sovereign state).
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Mideast Assemblyman Ben
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2012, 02:36:17 pm »
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An amendment:
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A Bill

Be it enacted by the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia assembled.

This bill shall be entitled the "Antarctic Incorporation Act".

1) The area between the meridian 90° west of Greenwich and the meridian 150° west of Greenwich that lies south of the 60th parallel south, excluding that already claimed by any other sovereign nation and that which lies in international waters, shall be incorporated into the State of Byrd and abbreviated as 'BY'"
2) Byrd shall become the 12th state of the Imperial Dominion of the South.
3) All other areas south of the 60th parallel south are eligible to join the State of Byrd should they choose to do so by democratic means or, if uninhabited, the claiming government hands them over to Atlasian control.
4) No military forces of the Republic of Atlasia shall be stationed in the State of Byrd unless the state is directly attacked by foreign military forces.
5) Foreign scientists shall be allowed to continue their activities within the State of Byrd and shall not be inhibited by it becoming part of Atlasia.
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2012, 03:47:41 pm »
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I urge the Senators to reject this proposal.

Sure, you may claim it's just about a "piece of ice", but returning to territorial expansionism is a very dangerous and certainly unwarranted precedent.
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President William McKinley
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« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2012, 03:58:51 pm »
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Frankly- I'm inclined to agree with Kalwejt.... why is this needed? Is there a risk of other countries booting our researchers from the continent?
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Senator Meiji (D-NC)
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« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2012, 04:30:26 pm »
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Frankly- I'm inclined to agree with Kalwejt.... why is this needed? Is there a risk of other countries booting our researchers from the continent?

It gives us a location that is definitively Atlasian to serve as a base to facilitate Atlasian scientific observation and study of Antarctica. Such will enhance our capability to research further into Antarctica, thus benefiting global scientific knowledge. Plus, it helps secure for Atlasia what could be considerable reserves of oil and fish that are currently claimed by no other nation.
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President William McKinley
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« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2012, 04:49:59 pm »
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Frankly- I'm inclined to agree with Kalwejt.... why is this needed? Is there a risk of other countries booting our researchers from the continent?

It gives us a location that is definitively Atlasian to serve as a base to facilitate Atlasian scientific observation and study of Antarctica. Such will enhance our capability to research further into Antarctica, thus benefiting global scientific knowledge. Plus, it helps secure for Atlasia what could be considerable reserves of oil and fish that are currently claimed by no other nation.
Could you please generally describe the current situation... do we not have rights to the fishing and oil as is and what is the policy of other nations towards the Antarctic?
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Senator Meiji (D-NC)
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« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2012, 05:02:05 pm »
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Frankly- I'm inclined to agree with Kalwejt.... why is this needed? Is there a risk of other countries booting our researchers from the continent?

It gives us a location that is definitively Atlasian to serve as a base to facilitate Atlasian scientific observation and study of Antarctica. Such will enhance our capability to research further into Antarctica, thus benefiting global scientific knowledge. Plus, it helps secure for Atlasia what could be considerable reserves of oil and fish that are currently claimed by no other nation.
Could you please generally describe the current situation... do we not have rights to the fishing and oil as is and what is the policy of other nations towards the Antarctic?

Right now it's terra nullius, meaning that to extract oil and such we need to get specific approval from the International Seabed Authority, pay fees and taxes, get a permit, steps we wouldn't have to take if we simply exercised our right to claim the territory under the Antarctic Treaty.

As for the policy of other nations, seven have made territorial claims to Antarctic sectors. I believe only the Argentine and Chilean sectors are inhabited. Here's a map of current claims:

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Assemblyman JCL
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« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2012, 05:07:11 pm »
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Frankly- I'm inclined to agree with Kalwejt.... why is this needed? Is there a risk of other countries booting our researchers from the continent?

It gives us a location that is definitively Atlasian to serve as a base to facilitate Atlasian scientific observation and study of Antarctica. Such will enhance our capability to research further into Antarctica, thus benefiting global scientific knowledge. Plus, it helps secure for Atlasia what could be considerable reserves of oil and fish that are currently claimed by no other nation.

Why are we not further utilizing our Artic territories for such purposes? We have hundreds if not thousands of years worth of coal, oil and natural gas. Wouldnt this aswage our concerns over foreign oil?
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2012, 06:11:54 pm »
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Quote from: Amendment 50:24 by Ben
A Bill

Be it enacted by the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia assembled.

This bill shall be entitled the "Antarctic Incorporation Act".

1) The area between the meridian 90° west of Greenwich and the meridian 150° west of Greenwich that lies south of the 60th parallel south, excluding that already claimed by any other sovereign nation and that which lies in international waters, shall be incorporated into the State of Byrd and abbreviated as 'BY'"
2) Byrd shall become the 12th state of the Imperial Dominion of the South.
3) All other areas south of the 60th parallel south are eligible to join the State of Byrd should they choose to do so by democratic means or, if uninhabited, the claiming government hands them over to Atlasian control.
4) No military forces of the Republic of Atlasia shall be stationed in the State of Byrd unless the state is directly attacked by foreign military forces.
5) Foreign scientists shall be allowed to continue their activities within the State of Byrd and shall not be inhibited by it becoming part of Atlasia.

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« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2012, 12:15:18 pm »
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. . .

4) No military forces of the Republic of Atlasia shall be stationed in the State of Byrd unless the state is directly attacked by foreign military forces.
5) Foreign scientists shall be allowed to continue their activities within the State of Byrd and shall not be inhibited by it becoming part of Atlasia.

These two amendments should attempt to satisfy such concerns. The issue with Norway is addressed in the 1st article . . .

This is very helpful, and is a major step in the right direction, thanks.


. . . returning to territorial expansionism is a very dangerous and certainly unwarranted precedent.

This was part of my initial reaction as well. Upon further reading into the matter, however, it apears that Atlasia has operated in the territory in question for many decades and began to consider annexing the parcel in question at around the same time Great Britain made its own territorial claim on the Antarctic continent. I am still leaning in the direction of opposition, but admittedly find the proposition much less repulsive than was the case at first glance.


It gives us a location that is definitively Atlasian to serve as a base to facilitate Atlasian scientific observation and study of Antarctica. Such will enhance our capability to research further into Antarctica, thus benefiting global scientific knowledge. Plus, it helps secure for Atlasia what could be considerable reserves of oil and fish that are currently claimed by no other nation.

Then again, to be perfectly honest, none of these reasons seem particularly compelling to me. We do not need a territorial claim to continue having a secure, long-term commitment to the pursuit of scientific endeavors in Antarctica, and global scientific knowledge will be benefited in either event because the Antarctic Treaty put into motion collaborative efforts for countries to pool their resources and share their scientific findings to make optimal use of their finite resources committed to the region. Atlasia already has extremely generous access to fish and oil resources, and both of those reserves - as I previously expressed - could do wonders for the economy of and living conditions within a developing nation, whereas in Atlasian hands the boons would be relatively modest (and at worst could come across as seizing for ourselves buried riches to squander before Third World countries have any reasonable opportunity to develop them despite their comparable proximity to said resources). And that is aside from the fact that I'm opposed to expanded oil production on the part of Atlasia, anyway.

Are there any other reasons to speak of? Also, why shouldn't such a hypothetical territory fall into the hands of the Pacific region, whose merchant marine assets have relatively direct and straightforward access to Byrd from its major ports? I do not mean to pose too pointed of questions or take on any sort of negative tone, but I still need a bit of convincing here. :]
« Last Edit: August 08, 2012, 12:19:56 pm by Redalgo »Logged

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Senator Meiji (D-NC)
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« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2012, 12:41:34 pm »
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Are there any other reasons to speak of? Also, why shouldn't such a hypothetical territory fall into the hands of the Pacific region, whose merchant marine assets have relatively direct and straightforward access to Byrd from its major ports?

Not much there but fish, tourists, and scientists (hydrocarbon and mineral deposits as well, but they're rather small), and this claim would allow us control of the fisheries, a base for our scientists (in a relatively unexplored part of Antarctica), and a place for tourism without the hassle of customs.

As for the territory, the major tourism operator in the region (Azamara Cruises) is based out of the IDS, and fishing ships would find richer and more varied markets sailing back along the Atlantic than the Pacific.

Sorry if this is kinda short, my reply got eaten by session timeout twice already.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2012, 03:42:07 pm »
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I heard something today about an Australian expedition to rescue a sick American Scientist in Antartica.


Perhaps we should consider building an advanced medical facility down there to deal with such circumstances in our zone.
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Senator Meiji (D-NC)
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« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2012, 04:18:05 pm »
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I heard something today about an Australian expedition to rescue a sick American Scientist in Antartica.


Perhaps we should consider building an advanced medical facility down there to deal with such circumstances in our zone.

Ah! That was the other reason it should be part of the IDS: because the IDS currently has a bill in their legislative queue that would expand scientific and medical facilities in this sector if it does become part of Atlasia.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2012, 03:13:43 pm »
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The amendment has passed.
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« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2012, 11:02:45 am »
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Mr. SJoyceFla, a constituent of mine has expressed concerns over this legislation.  Would you please provide evidence from the treaty that claiming the territory is legally sound and that the Russians and Brazilians are, in fact, thinking about claiming it first?  On that matter, how one of them claiming it affect our current activities in the Arctic since the treaty already provides our scientists with a legitimate basis for exploration?
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Senator Meiji (D-NC)
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« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2012, 12:52:35 pm »
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Mr. SJoyceFla, a constituent of mine has expressed concerns over this legislation.  Would you please provide evidence from the treaty that claiming the territory is legally sound and that the Russians and Brazilians are, in fact, thinking about claiming it first?  On that matter, how one of them claiming it affect our current activities in the Arctic since the treaty already provides our scientists with a legitimate basis for exploration?



This map shows Brazil's proposed "Zone of Interest", which, while not a formal territorial claim, is a designation of their particular interest in that zone of the Antarctic. They, as well as the Russians, have officially declared their reservation of a right to make a territorial claim under the Antarctic Treaty. I cannot find a specific government document in which the right to reserve a claim is specifically spelled out, but we reserved that right when we ratified the Antarctic Treaty. As for how one of them claiming it would affect our current activities, while our scientific explorations would likely be unaffected, our ability to fish in what would be claimed as Russian (or Brazilian) waters would be sharply reduced.
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Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2012, 05:48:08 pm »
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What is the situation here?
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« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2012, 11:11:16 pm »
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At the moment, I plan to vote for the legislation.
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Mideast Assemblyman Ben
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« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2012, 11:40:41 pm »
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At the moment, I plan to vote for the legislation.

As do I.  I need the opposition to really convince me on this.
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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2012, 11:42:38 pm »
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I also plan to vote for it after my initial hesitation... our nation's interests must come first
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« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2012, 06:08:30 am »
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You guys are prepared to risk ending a decades-long period of stability and international cooperation over fishing rights?
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Senator Meiji (D-NC)
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« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2012, 07:00:59 am »
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You guys are prepared to risk ending a decades-long period of stability and international cooperation over fishing rights?

Do you have any proof that this would end a decades-long period of stability and international cooperation? That didn't happen when the British claimed land in 1917, when New Zealand did in 1923, France in 1956, Australia in 1933, Chile in 1961, Norway in 1939, or Argentina in 1904 (bolded are most recent). Why would it happen with us?
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