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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: Jobs Now Act of 2012 (Law'd)  (Read 2127 times)
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« Reply #75 on: August 25, 2012, 12:36:37 pm »
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It's just adding more layers of bureaucracy...
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« Reply #76 on: August 25, 2012, 12:48:24 pm »
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It's just adding more layers of bureaucracy...

Not really.  The bill merely assigns a new responsibility for the DoIA, so no new departments are created.  Someone, unfortunately, has to be in charge of approving the business applications so that employers aren't simply getting cheaper labor at the expense of the taxpayer.
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« Reply #77 on: August 25, 2012, 01:00:40 pm »
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It's just adding more layers of bureaucracy...

Not really.  The bill merely assigns a new responsibility for the DoIA, so no new departments are created.  Someone, unfortunately, has to be in charge of approving the business applications so that employers aren't simply getting cheaper labor at the expense of the taxpayer.

I know you are trying to do your best here but a more efficient use of our resources would be to spend more on constructing or repairing our infrastructure rather than providing subsidies to corporations.
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« Reply #78 on: August 25, 2012, 02:42:18 pm »
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It's just adding more layers of bureaucracy...

Not really.  The bill merely assigns a new responsibility for the DoIA, so no new departments are created.  Someone, unfortunately, has to be in charge of approving the business applications so that employers aren't simply getting cheaper labor at the expense of the taxpayer.

I know you are trying to do your best here but a more efficient use of our resources would be to spend more on constructing or repairing our infrastructure rather than providing subsidies to corporations.

Well, I'm really not concerned about corporations; I am concerned about helping workers keep their jobs in a tough economy, which is the key element of the bill.  If we must get rid of this section of the bill, then it needs to be replaced with an alternative means of helping workers, otherwise this effort would have been for nothing.
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« Reply #79 on: August 26, 2012, 01:43:49 am »
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Well not even that, it brings back my point from before about needing multiple criteria or something.

The implication of a 17% decline in net income is that they are still profitable and have a positive net income.

So you could be allowing Exxon-Mobile to cut their employees pay, and get the Gov't to pick up the tab all by virtue of shifting activities accounting for 17% of their net income from one accounting period to another.

Wouldn't any malicious shifts in income be detected by the department that's overseeing the businesses?

Yes, if the bill directs them to check for a specific secondary or subsequent criteria, which would clue them in as to the shift. Just assuming they will know what to look for and when could lead to them not looking at all.
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« Reply #80 on: August 26, 2012, 11:19:06 pm »
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Well not even that, it brings back my point from before about needing multiple criteria or something.

The implication of a 17% decline in net income is that they are still profitable and have a positive net income.

So you could be allowing Exxon-Mobile to cut their employees pay, and get the Gov't to pick up the tab all by virtue of shifting activities accounting for 17% of their net income from one accounting period to another.

Wouldn't any malicious shifts in income be detected by the department that's overseeing the businesses?

Yes, if the bill directs them to check for a specific secondary or subsequent criteria, which would clue them in as to the shift. Just assuming they will know what to look for and when could lead to them not looking at all.

Wouldn't it be easier to simply direct the SOIA to not accept applicants from businesses that are shifting their income around?  I 'm not sure what you mean by 'secondary criteria' unless you're referring to something like that.
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« Reply #81 on: August 27, 2012, 12:13:39 am »
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Well not even that, it brings back my point from before about needing multiple criteria or something.

The implication of a 17% decline in net income is that they are still profitable and have a positive net income.

So you could be allowing Exxon-Mobile to cut their employees pay, and get the Gov't to pick up the tab all by virtue of shifting activities accounting for 17% of their net income from one accounting period to another.

Wouldn't any malicious shifts in income be detected by the department that's overseeing the businesses?

Yes, if the bill directs them to check for a specific secondary or subsequent criteria, which would clue them in as to the shift. Just assuming they will know what to look for and when could lead to them not looking at all.

Wouldn't it be easier to simply direct the SOIA to not accept applicants from businesses that are shifting their income around?  I 'm not sure what you mean by 'secondary criteria' unless you're referring to something like that.

No that wouldn't work there are numerous legitimate reasons to be "shifting money". You would cripple any business with such a restriction.

I am thinking of another line on a financial statement. How familiar are you with accounting?
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« Reply #82 on: August 27, 2012, 12:15:41 am »
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Well not even that, it brings back my point from before about needing multiple criteria or something.

The implication of a 17% decline in net income is that they are still profitable and have a positive net income.

So you could be allowing Exxon-Mobile to cut their employees pay, and get the Gov't to pick up the tab all by virtue of shifting activities accounting for 17% of their net income from one accounting period to another.

Wouldn't any malicious shifts in income be detected by the department that's overseeing the businesses?

Yes, if the bill directs them to check for a specific secondary or subsequent criteria, which would clue them in as to the shift. Just assuming they will know what to look for and when could lead to them not looking at all.

Wouldn't it be easier to simply direct the SOIA to not accept applicants from businesses that are shifting their income around?  I 'm not sure what you mean by 'secondary criteria' unless you're referring to something like that.

No that wouldn't work there are numerous legitimate reasons to be "shifting money". You would cripple any business with such a restriction.

I am thinking of another line on a financial statement. How familiar are you with accounting?

I'm really not...
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« Reply #83 on: August 29, 2012, 09:11:17 pm »
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Yankee, what type of financial statement did you have in mind?
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« Reply #84 on: August 29, 2012, 10:33:01 pm »
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Well changes in Revenues and Liabilities would be one, but you would have to word it in such as way as ot ensure it doesn't get flagged for legitimate business operations.


In the end there will be limits to what can be done, because they can simiply slow down their business operations and there will be little that could be done becuase provign it was just for the tax credits would be difficult at best.
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« Reply #85 on: August 31, 2012, 08:39:32 pm »
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"Companies must have declines in net income resulting from overall declines in sales and business during the reporting periods in questions. Declines in Net Income resulting from one time financial transactions shall not be eligible under this program and the Department of the Interior shall be charged with enforcing and policing applicants and and those the program to ensure compliance with the program and its standards."


How is that for a start?
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« Reply #86 on: August 31, 2012, 09:12:29 pm »
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SECTION 3. VOLUNTARY WORK HOUR AND PAY CUT COMPENSATION

1.) Employers of businesses with 20 employees or more that have lost 17% of net income during the past year and have not been found to be involved in illegal activity will be allowed to give each worker the option of cutting their work hours by 10%, or their salaries by 10%.

2.) The Department of Internal Affairs will be tasked with the duty of checking for fraud and abuse of companies that apply. Companies must have declines in net income resulting from overall declines in sales and business during the reporting periods in questions. Declines in Net Income resulting from one time financial transactions shall not be eligible under this program and the Department of the Interior shall be charged with enforcing and policing applicants and and those the program to ensure compliance with the program and its standards.

3.) Employees who take either option will be subsidized 60% of lost income.

4.) This section shall be in effect for one year after passage.
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« Reply #87 on: September 01, 2012, 07:55:18 pm »
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Quote from: Current Text
A BILL

To promote and incentivize job growth in the Republic of Atlasia.

Be it enacted by the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia assembled.

SECTION 1. TITLE

This act may be cited as the ‘Jobs Now Act of 2012.’

SECTION 2. HIRING INCENTIVES ACT RENEWAL

1.) The effects of the Hiring Incentives Act are hereby renewed for one year after passage of this legislation.

SECTION 3. VOLUNTARY WORK HOUR AND PAY CUT COMPENSATION

1.) Employers of businesses with 20 employees or more that have lost 17% of net income during the past year and have not been found to be involved in illegal activity will be allowed to give each worker the option of cutting their work hours by 10%, or their salaries by 10%.

2.) The Department of Internal Affairs will be tasked with the duty of checking for fraud and abuse of companies that apply.

3.) Employees who take either option will be subsidized 60% of lost income.

4.) This section shall be in effect for one year after passage.

SECTION 4. WHITE ROOFTOP INCENTIVES FOR PUBLIC AND PRIVATELY OWNED BUILDINGS

1.) All local, state, and regional administrative officials will be subsidized 25% for the hiring of construction workers to paint black rooftops of government buildings the color white.

2.) All individuals, households, and business owners will be subsidized 25% for the hiring of construction workers to paint black rooftops of houses and businesses white.

SECTION 5. REGIONAL PUBLIC BANKING SYSTEM

1.) All regions of the Republic of Atlasia are bestowed the option of creating individual state-owned banks, which will be funded by the federal government per request of each region.

2.) Regional banks will be delegated with the duties
    To assist local banks with capital and liquidity requirements
    To provide loans & loan guarantees
    To provide assistance to borrowers in areas of job retention
    To provide assistance to borrowers in technology creation
    To provide assistance to small businesses and businesses of retail, and
    To participate in community service projects

3.) All revenues collected by each region shall be deposited in their respective banks.

4.) Funds that are deposited in a regional bank shall not transmit services to other regions or countries unless funds are prescribed to via a budget item of the region in control of the bank.

5.) 35% of a bank's earnings will be remitted to the region's Treasury.  If a treasury is not in place, the region will be responsible for establishing one.

6.) A regional bank will be responsible for keeping a record of all transactions and writing summaries which shall convey expectation and outlook of growth and inflation over each upcoming year.  The region's Treasury will be designated with the responsibility of annually checking the bank for organization of these records and efficiency in management.

7.) No individual, co-partnership, or corporation shall be permitted to subscribe for or to hold at any time more than $25,000 par value of stock in a regional bank.
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« Reply #88 on: September 01, 2012, 07:58:06 pm »
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Oh, sorry.  That was an amendment I just offered. Tongue
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« Reply #89 on: September 01, 2012, 08:00:15 pm »
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SECTION 3. VOLUNTARY WORK HOUR AND PAY CUT COMPENSATION

1.) Employers of businesses with 20 employees or more that have lost 17% of net income during the past year and have not been found to be involved in illegal activity will be allowed to give each worker the option of cutting their work hours by 10%, or their salaries by 10%.

2.) The Department of Internal Affairs will be tasked with the duty of checking for fraud and abuse of companies that apply. Companies must have declines in net income resulting from overall declines in sales and business during the reporting periods in question. Declines in Net Income resulting from one time financial transactions, or or otherwise not resulting from a decline in sales and business, shall not be eligible for this program. The Department of the Interior shall be charged with enforcing and policing new applicants and auditing those within program to ensure compliance with the program's standards and requirements.

3.) Employees who take either option will be subsidized 60% of lost income.

4.) This section shall be in effect for one year after passage.


I tightened up the language and corrected some errors like a double "and".
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« Reply #90 on: September 01, 2012, 08:01:36 pm »
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Amendment:

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SECTION 3. VOLUNTARY WORK HOUR AND PAY CUT COMPENSATION

1.) Employers of businesses with 20 employees or more that have lost 17% of net income during the past year and have not been found to be involved in illegal activity will be allowed to give each worker the option of cutting their work hours by 10%, or their salaries by 10%.

2.) The Department of Internal Affairs will be tasked with the duty of checking for fraud and abuse of companies that apply. Companies must have declines in net income resulting from overall declines in sales and business during the reporting periods in question. Declines in Net Income resulting from one time financial transactions, or or otherwise not resulting from a decline in sales and business shall not be eligible for this program. The Department of the Interior shall be charged with enforcing and policing new applicants and auditing those within program to ensure compliance with the program's standards and requirements.

3.) Employees who take either option will be subsidized 60% of lost income.

4.) This section shall be in effect for one year after passage.
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« Reply #91 on: September 01, 2012, 08:09:42 pm »
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Quote from: Amendment 50:35 by Scott
SECTION 3. VOLUNTARY WORK HOUR AND PAY CUT COMPENSATION

1.) Employers of businesses with 20 employees or more that have lost 17% of net income during the past year and have not been found to be involved in illegal activity will be allowed to give each worker the option of cutting their work hours by 10%, or their salaries by 10%.

2.) The Department of Internal Affairs will be tasked with the duty of checking for fraud and abuse of companies that apply. Companies must have declines in net income resulting from overall declines in sales and business during the reporting periods in question. Declines in Net Income resulting from one time financial transactions, or or otherwise not resulting from a decline in sales and business shall not be eligible for this program. The Department of the Interior shall be charged with enforcing and policing new applicants and auditing those within program to ensure compliance with the program's standards and requirements.

3.) Employees who take either option will be subsidized 60% of lost income.

4.) This section shall be in effect for one year after passage.

Sponsor Feedback: Origination
Status: Senators have 24 hours to object.
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« Reply #92 on: September 02, 2012, 09:20:11 pm »
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The amendment is passed.
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« Reply #93 on: September 04, 2012, 02:06:31 am »
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I am still worried about some of things in this bill, but I am unsure about how to go about fixing them. I like the underlying idea, but it is a very thing tiny needle to thread to get this kind of thing right and not end up subsidizing healthy companies to cut their employees and letting the gov't pick up the tab.
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« Reply #94 on: September 04, 2012, 02:25:33 pm »
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I am still worried about some of things in this bill, but I am unsure about how to go about fixing them. I like the underlying idea, but it is a very thing tiny needle to thread to get this kind of thing right and not end up subsidizing healthy companies to cut their employees and letting the gov't pick up the tab.

What in the amendment do you not find sufficient?  Truth be told, if this were real life, we would probably have written up a good five hundred pages or so that would standardize the requirements for these benefits.  I'm not sure what the bill lacks now that we need to fix.
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« Reply #95 on: September 04, 2012, 11:55:32 pm »
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I am still worried about some of things in this bill, but I am unsure about how to go about fixing them. I like the underlying idea, but it is a very thing tiny needle to thread to get this kind of thing right and not end up subsidizing healthy companies to cut their employees and letting the gov't pick up the tab.

What in the amendment do you not find sufficient?  Truth be told, if this were real life, we would probably have written up a good five hundred pages or so that would standardize the requirements for these benefits.  I'm not sure what the bill lacks now that we need to fix.

I don't know that is the problem. Tongue If I did I would have amendments drawn up by now. If you feel comfortable, then you should consider calling for a final vote.
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« Reply #96 on: September 05, 2012, 01:01:10 am »
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If no one raises any objections to section three or any other parts of the current text, I will call for a final vote in the next 24 hours.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2012, 01:12:12 am by Senator Scott »Logged
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« Reply #97 on: September 05, 2012, 01:14:30 am »
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If no one has any more objections, I will call for a final vote in the next 24 hours.

Objections are defined in this case as any discussion relating to the bill itself. Only the PPT can do UC according to the OSPR and this post by the honerable Senators form the NE shouldn't be miscontrued as such by members, even though it kinda, sorta sounds like that.

Or just to be safe in case someone starts talking:

I ask unanimous consent to waive the cloture vote and proceed immediately to a final vote. Senators have 24 hours to object.
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« Reply #98 on: September 06, 2012, 12:57:56 am »
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Vote here in a little over 10 minutes.
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« Reply #99 on: September 06, 2012, 01:19:23 am »
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Senators, this bill is now at final vote so please vote Aye, Nay or Abstain.
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