Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
July 23, 2014, 09:09:58 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  Election Archive
| |-+  2012 Elections (Moderators: Mr. Morden, Bacon King, Sheriff Buford TX Justice)
| | |-+  Biden vs Ryan
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: Biden vs Ryan  (Read 1484 times)
Clinton1996
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3415
United States


View Profile
« on: August 11, 2012, 12:33:03 pm »
Ignore

I'm still gonna go out on a limb and still say edge Biden. But a Ryan debate legit scares me now. Can the old man pull it out? What does it look like? And no trolling saying " Ryan will out-statistic Biden, and he'll just gaffe the entire time". (Winfield and Politico)
Logged

Rhodie
Full Member
***
Posts: 245
South Africa


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2012, 12:38:11 pm »
Ignore

I'm still gonna go out on a limb and still say edge Biden. But a Ryan debate legit scares me now. Can the old man pull it out? What does it look like? And no trolling saying " Ryan will out-statistic Biden, and he'll just gaffe the entire time". (Winfield and Politico)

Biden only just scraped by against Palin. He'll be crushed.
Logged

Economic score: +6.19
Social score: +2.61

"Freedom. And Justice. If you have those two, it covers everything. You must stick to those principles and have the courage of your convictions"

Senator Alfred F. Jones
Alfred F. Jones
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8288
United States


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2012, 12:38:23 pm »
Ignore

To be fair, Ryan probably will out-statistic Biden.
Logged



There is a lot of humor to be mined from this as the mind of LBJ in the body of an 18 month old baby girl is quite hilarious.

Alfred is the Atlasian equivalent of a malevolent deity.

pepper11
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 661
United States


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2012, 12:39:28 pm »
Ignore

Its going to be fun to watch no matter what...
Logged

PM Econ: 4.26
PM Soc: -1.22
Clinton1996
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3415
United States


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2012, 12:48:18 pm »
Ignore

I'm still gonna go out on a limb and still say edge Biden. But a Ryan debate legit scares me now. Can the old man pull it out? What does it look like? And no trolling saying " Ryan will out-statistic Biden, and he'll just gaffe the entire time". (Winfield and Politico)

Biden only just scraped by against Palin. He'll be crushed.
Palin just beat expectations. Everyone thought Biden won.
"According to a poll of uncommitted voters conducted immediately after the debate by CBS News and the former Knowledge Network, 46% thought Senator Biden won the debate, 21% thought Governor Palin had won, and 33% thought it was a tie. Fox News Channel held a poll regarding the performance of each candidate, with 51% of the votes in favor of Biden, and 39% in favor of Palin. The Opinion Research Corporation's poll on the debate revealed that 51% of viewers felt Biden had won, while 36% were in favor of Palin. In the same poll, 87% said Biden was capable of fulfilling the duties of the vice presidency, while 42% said Palin is. Palin was considered more likable however, scoring 54% to Biden's 36%.Mark Halperin of Time graded both candidates' performances a B."
Logged

J. J.
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 32026
United States


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2012, 12:54:17 pm »
Ignore

I've seen Ryan taking on Obama.  Edge to Ryan (though it will have about as much effect and Bentson's win in 1988).
Logged

J. J.

"Actually, .. now that you mention it...." 
- Londo Molari

"Every government are parliaments of whores.
The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us." - P. J. O'Rourke

"Wa sala, wa lala."

(Zulu for, "You snooze, you lose.")
Stranger in a strange land
strangeland
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6290
United States


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2012, 01:03:43 pm »
Ignore

I've seen Ryan taking on Obama.  Edge to Ryan (though it will have about as much effect and Bentson's win in 1988).

Too bad Ryan won't be debating Obama.
Logged

Speaker Dereich
Dereich
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1816


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2012, 01:08:35 pm »
Ignore

It really depends on the debate topics. I'm sure Biden would win big points on foreign policy discussion, while Ryan has the edge on deficit reduction. The fact that Ryan has a plan (which lets him attack) while Biden will be forced to defend the administration and his role in it has me give Ryan an edge. And yeah, Ryan probably will out statistic Biden.
Logged
pepper11
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 661
United States


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2012, 01:19:04 pm »
Ignore

Biden clearly won the debate but it was seen as a victory because Biden didn't pummel her. Biden is going to be playing defense for most of this one however. It seems like domestic issue have dominate the past few VP debates.
Logged

PM Econ: 4.26
PM Soc: -1.22
Sbane
sbane
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13341


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2012, 01:20:44 pm »
Ignore

Biden will represent older Americans who are accustomed to Medicare and Social Security. Republicans would not want people in Ohio and Florida to watch that debate.
Logged
pepper11
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 661
United States


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2012, 01:24:41 pm »
Ignore

Biden will represent older Americans who are accustomed to Medicare and Social Security. Republicans would not want people in Ohio and Florida to watch that debate.

Seeing that Ryan's plan would not change anything for older American's I am not so sure about this.
Logged

PM Econ: 4.26
PM Soc: -1.22
stegosaurus
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 526
United States


P P
View Profile
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2012, 01:28:00 pm »
Ignore

Paul Ryan could make Joe Biden look stupid, the trick for him is not doing so. Ryan is in the tough position of defending entitlement reform in a debate with a senior citizen, he does not want to look like a disrespectful, inconsiderate punk by blowing Biden out of the water. Romney has enough of an "a-hole" problem as it is.
Logged

liberty or death.
Svensson
NVTownsend
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 646


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2012, 01:29:16 pm »
Ignore

Objectively, Biden is boned. The man legitimately did just scrape by Palin, proving that either she had one night out of character or that his specialty seriously isn't debating, and now he gets to match someone who has spent most of his recent years in Congress debating.

Ryan might have all the charisma of a toaster, but strictly speaking, I find him far more intelligent than both his opponent and his predecessor.
Logged
America™
All For America
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 93
United States


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2012, 01:30:01 pm »
Ignore

Ryan vs Biden is a going to be a much more interesting debate anyways. Obama/Romney is going to be a relatively safe debate while Ryan/Biden could get interesting
Logged
pepper11
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 661
United States


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2012, 01:38:57 pm »
Ignore

Ryan vs Biden is a going to be a much more interesting debate anyways. Obama/Romney is going to be a relatively safe debate while Ryan/Biden could get interesting
Logged

PM Econ: 4.26
PM Soc: -1.22
A-Bob
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5934
United States


Political Matrix
E: 3.42, S: 1.13

View Profile
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2012, 01:42:24 pm »
Ignore

Ryan will win, however the bar by blabbing conservatives and fox will set the bar very high that it may look like a tie.
Logged

AT&T likes to throw money around.©
Eraserhead
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 38304
United States


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2012, 01:51:07 pm »
Ignore

What is all this "Biden scraped by against Palin" nonsense? He easily won but he did so while looking like a gentleman, which is what he had to do. Biden is not dumb. He won't have to hold back against Ryan.

Ryan isn't dumb either though, so it should be a good and hopefully intense debate. It'll definitely be better than the snoozefest we would have got with Portman or the annihilation we would have seen with Pawlenty.
Logged

What are you talking about Duke?  Things are great so far.   I do have to cling to God no matter what.  I have nothing against this at all,  but in my class there are 9 blacks and 4 whites.  African Americans are quite prevalent in that part of Tulsa.  I don't mind it at all,  but it is an interesting fact in white Oklahoma.
Sbane
sbane
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 13341


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2012, 01:51:16 pm »
Ignore

Biden will represent older Americans who are accustomed to Medicare and Social Security. Republicans would not want people in Ohio and Florida to watch that debate.

Seeing that Ryan's plan would not change anything for older American's I am not so sure about this.

This is assuming they aren't jealous bastards who don't care about their kids or grandkids. Why is there an exemption down to 55 years old besides electoral advantage? Is there any valid reason for it? Those already enrolled in Medicare should be allowed to continue, but why exempt those who are years away from enrolling?
Logged
Lt. Governor TJ
TJ in Cleve
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4665
United States


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2012, 01:56:31 pm »
Ignore

Biden will represent older Americans who are accustomed to Medicare and Social Security. Republicans would not want people in Ohio and Florida to watch that debate.

Seeing that Ryan's plan would not change anything for older American's I am not so sure about this.

This is assuming they aren't jealous bastards who don't care about their kids or grandkids. Why is there an exemption down to 55 years old besides electoral advantage? Is there any valid reason for it? Those already enrolled in Medicare should be allowed to continue, but why exempt those who are years away from enrolling?

The logic is probably that it gives those close to enrolling a pass since their financial planning was done with the understanding that they would be able to enroll. I'm sure there is some electoral consideration involved too. Obviously a budget plan must be able to actually pass for it to actually happen. The line has to be drawn somewhere and Ryan chose 55.

Discussing changes to the Medicare/Social security system is one of the unspeakable truths in American politics, that it will one day collapse if significant changes are not made. It remains to be seen if the voters will appreciate such honesty or eviscerate him for breaking the taboo. By choosing Ryan, Romney may have defined this election as such.
Logged
Clinton1996
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3415
United States


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2012, 02:00:49 pm »
Ignore

Objectively, Biden is boned. The man legitimately did just scrape by Palin, proving that either she had one night out of character or that his specialty seriously isn't debating, and now he gets to match someone who has spent most of his recent years in Congress debating.

Ryan might have all the charisma of a toaster, but strictly speaking, I find him far more intelligent than both his opponent and his predecessor.
The thing is, the campaign didn't want Biden to pummel Palin and seem like he was talking down to her, like Bush seemed in 1984 against Ferraro. Now with Ryan, Biden can go all out against Ryan and Romney like he did back in the Senate. Don't forget, Biden comes from a time where there was actually spirited floor fights and debate in the US Senate. Everything wasn't done beforehand by party leaders in committee back then. Ryan is also gifted at argument. What's certain, this will be the most interesting VP debate in decades.
Logged

Marokai Besieged
Marokai Blue
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16694
United States


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2012, 02:04:06 pm »
Ignore

The Medicare and Social Security "problems" are two of perhaps the easiest solved issues in American politics right now, let's not pretend they require some unknown, wonky, new approach that has never been attempted ever before. The only reason no headway has been made on those issues and have subsquently been made "taboo" is because the ideology of the Right in this country has never actually been geared toward problem solving, but rather, focused on using problems as a vehicle to implement their ideological view of what government should do, rather than what it can do.
Logged

Lt. Governor TJ
TJ in Cleve
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4665
United States


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2012, 02:48:16 pm »
Ignore

The Medicare and Social Security "problems" are two of perhaps the easiest solved issues in American politics right now, let's not pretend they require some unknown, wonky, new approach that has never been attempted ever before. The only reason no headway has been made on those issues and have subsquently been made "taboo" is because the ideology of the Right in this country has never actually been geared toward problem solving, but rather, focused on using problems as a vehicle to implement their ideological view of what government should do, rather than what it can do.

The left hasn't been remotely interested in dealing with it either. Every mention of what to do about the massive budget apocalypse of these programs is either demagogued ruthlessly as ___ hates old people/sick people/poor people/etc or just proposing some statement-making tax increase that does nothing to address the massive looming shortfall. No, the left has been raiding social security over the years just like everyone else.
Logged
milhouse24
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2343
View Profile
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2012, 02:48:21 pm »
Ignore

The trick is to make Biden look very old and out of touch.  Biden has the energy of a man ten years younger, but he's still a relatively old guy; and the age will catch up to him at some point.  Make Biden look senile and stupid with all his gaffes.  I would advise Biden to get a lot of rest for the next month, just try to do nothing stressful.  

Ryan may look too young and nerdy compared to Biden.  Ryan has to connect to voters empathetically and not with numbers.  He needs to be the compassionate next generation of Catholic politicians, taking the baton from Biden.  

Biden's always been very good at ramble-rousing, and that is his strength.  Ryan has to make voters love him more than Joe.  
Logged
Marokai Besieged
Marokai Blue
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16694
United States


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2012, 02:58:45 pm »
Ignore

The Medicare and Social Security "problems" are two of perhaps the easiest solved issues in American politics right now, let's not pretend they require some unknown, wonky, new approach that has never been attempted ever before. The only reason no headway has been made on those issues and have subsquently been made "taboo" is because the ideology of the Right in this country has never actually been geared toward problem solving, but rather, focused on using problems as a vehicle to implement their ideological view of what government should do, rather than what it can do.

The left hasn't been remotely interested in dealing with it either. Every mention of what to do about the massive budget apocalypse of these programs is either demagogued ruthlessly as ___ hates old people/sick people/poor people/etc or just proposing some statement-making tax increase that does nothing to address the massive looming shortfall. No, the left has been raiding social security over the years just like everyone else.

A left-wing party would follow through on those solutions. Your problem is considering the Democratic Party as a left-wing party.
Logged

Clinton1996
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3415
United States


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2012, 03:06:38 pm »
Ignore

The trick is to make Biden look very old and out of touch.  Biden has the energy of a man ten years younger, but he's still a relatively old guy; and the age will catch up to him at some point.  Make Biden look senile and stupid with all his gaffes.  I would advise Biden to get a lot of rest for the next month, just try to do nothing stressful.  
Biden has only made like one gaffe all year, and that was his endorsement of marriage equality. And even that one wasn't considered a huge gaffe.
Ryan may look too young and nerdy compared to Biden.  Ryan has to connect to voters empathetically and not with numbers.  He needs to be the compassionate next generation of Catholic politicians, taking the baton from Biden. Ryan has to make voters love him more than Joe.  
That's easier said than done. Biden's very popular among working class whites. He's got that crazy lovable grandpa, or favorite drunk uncle thing going for him. Romney strikes you as your smug neighbor or boss and Ryan is tour brother in law who the family never quite likes.
And I think Brian Schweitzer is next in line as "the compassionate next generation of Catholic politicians." That title been in the Democratic Family since the 1960s. JFK, RFK, EMK, JRB, and now BDS.
Logged

Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines