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| | |-+  Paul Ryan: the elephant in the room
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Poll
Question: Will Republicans vote for a mormon and a catholic?
Yes   -70 (89.7%)
No   -8 (10.3%)
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Total Voters: 78

Author Topic: Paul Ryan: the elephant in the room  (Read 2079 times)
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change08
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« on: August 11, 2012, 04:29:14 pm »
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Will the GOP base vote for a mormon and a catholic?
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Holmes
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2012, 04:32:51 pm »
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Against Obama, yes. Never you worry.
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The Kingfish
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« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2012, 04:36:46 pm »
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Romney has been saying for the past six years that he's an outsider who can change Washington for the better....and then he chooses Paul Ryan as his running mate. That's the bigger problem.
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« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2012, 04:40:34 pm »
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Will the GOP base vote for a mormon and a catholic?
JCL is the only one who has not moved beyond this sort of identity politics.
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« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2012, 05:26:09 pm »
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Will the GOP base vote for a plutocrat and a Randian?
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« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2012, 05:56:04 pm »
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Will the GOP base vote for a plutocrat and a Randian?

Of course they will.
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« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2012, 05:57:03 pm »
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Will the GOP base vote for a plutocrat and a Randian?

Of course they will.

But I thought they were the party of moral values.
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« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2012, 06:02:23 pm »
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Yes, obviously.

And quit trying to paint the Republican base as some kind of intolerant group of voters.
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2012, 06:04:11 pm »
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And quit trying to paint the Republican base as some kind of intolerant group of voters.

Oh they do a good enough job of that themselves. There's no need to paint! Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2012, 06:04:46 pm »
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Will the GOP base vote for a plutocrat and a Randian?

Of course they will.

But I thought they were the party of moral values.

Ryan isn't a Randian and most people don't know who Rand is anyway.
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Senator Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2012, 06:05:33 pm »
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And quit trying to paint the Republican base as some kind of intolerant group of voters.

Do you seriously believe all the bullsh**t you spew?
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2012, 06:06:14 pm »
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Will the GOP base vote for a plutocrat and a Randian?

Of course they will.

But I thought they were the party of moral values.

Ryan isn't a Randian and most people don't know who Rand is anyway.

He's cited Rand as the reason he got into politics. The Obama people could, if they choose, do a very good job of making it very clear to people exactly who Rand was.
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A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2012, 06:08:28 pm »
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Will the GOP base vote for a plutocrat and a Randian?

Of course they will.

But I thought they were the party of moral values.

Ryan isn't a Randian and most people don't know who Rand is anyway.

He's cited Rand as the reason he got into politics. The Obama people could, if they choose, do a very good job of making it very clear to people exactly who Rand was.

Sure he has, but he's also not espoused Ayn Rand's ideology in total. It doesn't make any sense to call him a Randian.
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« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2012, 06:09:12 pm »
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And quit trying to paint the Republican base as some kind of intolerant group of voters.

WTF?
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« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2012, 06:10:44 pm »
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And quit trying to paint the Republican base as some kind of intolerant group of voters.

May I remind you of your last VP candidate's antics on the campaign trail?
Her as well as the members of the base who turned up to McCain/Palin rallies.
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« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2012, 06:23:58 pm »
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Will the GOP base vote for a plutocrat and a Randian?

Of course they will.

But I thought they were the party of moral values.

Ryan isn't a Randian and most people don't know who Rand is anyway.

He's cited Rand as the reason he got into politics. The Obama people could, if they choose, do a very good job of making it very clear to people exactly who Rand was.

Sure he has, but he's also not espoused Ayn Rand's ideology in total. It doesn't make any sense to call him a Randian.

Arguably not, but he's more Randian than I (and I would hope I'm joined in this by many or most Americans) am comfortable with for a Vice-Presidential candidate.
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A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
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« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2012, 06:55:06 pm »
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Will the GOP base vote for a plutocrat and a Randian?

Of course they will.

But I thought they were the party of moral values.

Ryan isn't a Randian and most people don't know who Rand is anyway.

He's cited Rand as the reason he got into politics. The Obama people could, if they choose, do a very good job of making it very clear to people exactly who Rand was.

Sure he has, but he's also not espoused Ayn Rand's ideology in total. It doesn't make any sense to call him a Randian.

Arguably not, but he's more Randian than I (and I would hope I'm joined in this by many or most Americans) am comfortable with for a Vice-Presidential candidate.

Is it just me or does this sound exactly like the "Obama is a socialist" argument that would be rapidly eviscerated on here as a right-wing fantasy...
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« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2012, 06:57:09 pm »
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Not so much that he's Catholic. Is that he doesn't have the southern/country/low class vibe that the GOP desperately needs. Romney already has the grown up college Republican vote. Especially in Virginia, North Carolina, Florida, and Ohio he's gonna need red meat Take Back Our (White) Country crowd. Instead, he went for the best looking Ayn Rand fan in America. I've yet to see Ryan campaign, but I don't get the impression that he can get the job done.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2012, 07:01:29 pm by memphis »Logged

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« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2012, 06:57:10 pm »
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Will the GOP base vote for a plutocrat and a Randian?

Of course they will.

But I thought they were the party of moral values.

Ryan isn't a Randian and most people don't know who Rand is anyway.

He's cited Rand as the reason he got into politics. The Obama people could, if they choose, do a very good job of making it very clear to people exactly who Rand was.

Sure he has, but he's also not espoused Ayn Rand's ideology in total. It doesn't make any sense to call him a Randian.

Arguably not, but he's more Randian than I (and I would hope I'm joined in this by many or most Americans) am comfortable with for a Vice-Presidential candidate.

Is it just me or does this sound exactly like the "Obama is a socialist" argument that would be rapidly eviscerated on here as a right-wing fantasy...

1. If Obama had cited some prominent socialist thinker as the reason he got into politics that would be a much more sensible line of attack.
2. There's nothing inherently unreasonable about saying that Obama's policies are closer to socialism than one is comfortable with. It's the idea that he's some sort of unreconstructed Marxist-Leninist or Eurocommunist that's prima facie absurd.
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A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
You kip if you want to...
change08
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« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2012, 06:57:46 pm »
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Will the GOP base vote for a plutocrat and a Randian?

Of course they will.

But I thought they were the party of moral values.

Ryan isn't a Randian and most people don't know who Rand is anyway.

He's cited Rand as the reason he got into politics. The Obama people could, if they choose, do a very good job of making it very clear to people exactly who Rand was.

Sure he has, but he's also not espoused Ayn Rand's ideology in total. It doesn't make any sense to call him a Randian.

Arguably not, but he's more Randian than I (and I would hope I'm joined in this by many or most Americans) am comfortable with for a Vice-Presidential candidate.

Is it just me or does this sound exactly like the "Obama is a socialist" argument that would be rapidly eviscerated on here as a right-wing fantasy...

Did Barack Obama call himself a socialist or claim Tommy Douglas or Aneurin Bevan as the inspirations behind the Affordable Care Act?
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change08
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« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2012, 06:59:59 pm »
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Will the GOP base vote for a plutocrat and a Randian?

Of course they will.

But I thought they were the party of moral values.

Ryan isn't a Randian and most people don't know who Rand is anyway.

He's cited Rand as the reason he got into politics. The Obama people could, if they choose, do a very good job of making it very clear to people exactly who Rand was.

Sure he has, but he's also not espoused Ayn Rand's ideology in total. It doesn't make any sense to call him a Randian.

Arguably not, but he's more Randian than I (and I would hope I'm joined in this by many or most Americans) am comfortable with for a Vice-Presidential candidate.

Is it just me or does this sound exactly like the "Obama is a socialist" argument that would be rapidly eviscerated on here as a right-wing fantasy...

1. If Obama had cited some prominent socialist thinker as the reason he got into politics that would be a much more sensible line of attack.
2. There's nothing inherently unreasonable about saying that Obama's policies are closer to socialism than one is comfortable with. It's the idea that he's some sort of unreconstructed Marxist-Leninist or Eurocommunist that's prima facie absurd.

Even calling him a social democrat would over doing it. He's to the right of your Milibands, your Hollandes and your Thorning-Schmidts.
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« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2012, 07:07:41 pm »
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There are obvious problems with calling Obama a socialist, but can't you people see the obvious problems with calling Ryan a Randite? I mean, would Ayn Rand have voted for TARP? Would Rand be against abortion? How about the auto bailouts?

It just doesn't match up at all.

And as for his early political inspiration, the same argument can be made for Obama since he has plenty of questionable ties from early in his community organizer days.
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« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2012, 07:33:48 pm »
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Republicans will vote for whoever they're told to vote for in the end. Plus, religion can be forgotten more than race if only for the simple fact that you can't see it.
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« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2012, 09:14:50 pm »
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Not so much that he's Catholic. Is that he doesn't have the southern/country/low class vibe that the GOP desperately needs. Romney already has the grown up college Republican vote. Especially in Virginia, North Carolina, Florida, and Ohio he's gonna need red meat Take Back Our (White) Country crowd. Instead, he went for the best looking Ayn Rand fan in America. I've yet to see Ryan campaign, but I don't get the impression that he can get the job done.

Either the "white working class" vote is more Democratic (or less Republican, alternatively) than the pundits give them credit for, or the Republicans take them completely for granted and really don't care about them.
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« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2012, 09:42:44 pm »
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If you'll vote for a Mormon, you'll vote for a Catholic. The bridge was already crossed. The OP is confusing though when it asks whether or not the "base" will vote for a Catholic. This is strange considering what a large segment of the base conservative Catholics are. Have you ever picked up National Review?

The more into politics a conservative evangelical is the more likely they are to be pro-Catholic, in politics or just in general. Hence for those who are even informed enough to be aware of his affiliation, it's probably a plus.

As for the nominally religious parts of the base, obviously it doesn't matter.
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