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Author Topic: Egyptian President Mursi to Field Marshal Tantawi: "You are fired !"  (Read 1076 times)
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« on: August 12, 2012, 10:45:27 am »
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Egypt leader Morsi orders army chief Tantawi to resign


Relations between Mr Mursi (left) and Field Marshal Tantawi (right) have been tense

Egyptian President Mohammed Mursi has ordered the retirement of the powerful head of the country's armed forces, Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi, a presidential spokesman has said.

No explanation has so far been given.

President Mursi, who was elected in June, is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Relations between the Brotherhood and the military have been tense since the fall of President Hosni Mubarak last year.

It is not clear whether the president has the power to sack the head of the armed forces, or whether Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi will accept the move.

Before Mr Mursi was sworn in, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (Scaf) stripped the presidency of many of its powers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19234763
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« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2012, 10:56:36 am »
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Like Turkey, only faster.
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I believe the simple truth is that they became somewhat alarmed when they realized that I really meant to write what I believed. There is a peculiar parallel between some of our great Northern "liberals" and some of our outstanding Southern liberals.

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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2012, 10:58:42 am »
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When does this take effect?
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2012, 12:10:49 pm »
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Dead0man's opposition to the subjection of the military to civilian rule is really terrifying in light of the fact that he's part of the Armed Forces.
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2012, 12:32:47 pm »
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Dead0man's opposition to the subjection of the military to civilian rule is really terrifying in light of the fact that he's part of the Armed Forces.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate Dead0man's concern that civillian government might hinder his safety/the militaries efficiency, but it is a two way street. The military in most countries (not the USA, unless martial law is enacted) is more of a threat than a protector to its peoples liberties. But for members of the armed forces to support the reversal of roles, is indeed scary.
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2012, 02:01:11 pm »
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Dead0man's opposition to the subjection of the military to civilian rule is really terrifying in light of the fact that he's part of the Armed Forces.
I in no way think the US Military should be in charge of the US.  I hope civilian rule works out in Turkey and Egypt.  I'm certainly not against it, but it does concern me as it should concern anybody that wants peace in the middle east.
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I believe the simple truth is that they became somewhat alarmed when they realized that I really meant to write what I believed. There is a peculiar parallel between some of our great Northern "liberals" and some of our outstanding Southern liberals.

Some of the people in both classes share the deep-seated convictions that only their convictions can possibly be the right ones. They both inevitably say the same thing: "We know the Negro and what is best for him."
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2012, 02:22:28 pm »
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Dead0man's opposition to the subjection of the military to civilian rule is really terrifying in light of the fact that he's part of the Armed Forces.
I in no way think the US Military should be in charge of the US.  I hope civilian rule works out in Turkey and Egypt.  I'm certainly not against it, but it does concern me as it should concern anybody that wants peace in the middle east.

Government by an elite unchosen by the people only amounts to a ceasefire and radicalizes civilian opponents to peace. You can only have true peace when you either force it by long brutal occupation or by the consent of an elected government.
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2012, 02:54:26 pm »
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Internal peace maybe, but not regional peace if that elected govt declares war on it's neighbors (or allows jerkwads to attack it's neighbors while the govt gives lip service that they are trying to stop it).
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I believe the simple truth is that they became somewhat alarmed when they realized that I really meant to write what I believed. There is a peculiar parallel between some of our great Northern "liberals" and some of our outstanding Southern liberals.

Some of the people in both classes share the deep-seated convictions that only their convictions can possibly be the right ones. They both inevitably say the same thing: "We know the Negro and what is best for him."
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« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2012, 03:03:01 pm »
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This is a good thing.
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« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2012, 03:19:46 pm »
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The question is what the military's next move is going to be.
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« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2012, 03:34:57 pm »
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Mursi has beat my expectations so far. Hopefully he is successful in ending the dictatorship, in spite of the billions of dollars of U.S. "aid" against it.
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« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2012, 04:52:20 pm »
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I don't care how horrible the Brotherhood's ideology is. They won the election fair and square, and they get to govern on their own. If they turn out to be sh*tty rulers, they will be voted out next time. But people who support an old, corrupt junta of wannabe dictators because they see them as a "lesser evil" just don't get it.
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« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2012, 12:58:42 am »
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Looks like Tantawi and the military may have gone along with this to escape prosecution:

http://world.time.com/2012/08/12/has-egypts-muslim-brotherhood-staged-a-coup-against-the-military/

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“I think the deal is [Tantawi and Anan] get a safe exit, and they hand the country to the Muslim Brotherhood,” says Mamdouh Hamza, a prominent businessman and pro-democracy advocate. “Because quite honestly, if we apply the same law [to the generals] that we applied to Mubarak’s family, Tantawi would be behind bars.”

Also, can someone explain what the current state of play is on the reinstatement of parliament?  The courts dissolved parliament, because they said there was a constitutional problem with how the election was conducted, and SCAF then claimed legislative powers for itself until a new parliament is elected.  Morsi then tried to reinstate them, but they only met for one day to formally lodge a complaint to the judiciary about being reinstated, and I'm not sure what the state of play is there.  According to that Time article, Morsi is now claiming legislative powers for himself, and also taking control of the constitutional committee:

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Whereas the military had, in June, claimed full legislative authority following the Supreme Court’s dissolution of the parliament, Morsy now claims legislative control for himself. He also seized the right — from the generals — to dissolve and replace the committee tasked with drafting Egypt’s new constitution, if the committee is somehow “prevented from doing its duties,” the state-backed Ahram Online news website reported.

So yes, Morsi won the presidential election, and I'm glad that he's taking power away from the generals, but is he just doing it to grant himself dictatorial powers, with no checks from other branches of government?
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« Reply #13 on: August 13, 2012, 01:08:21 am »
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Morsi ought to take a note from Andrew Jackson's sleeve and throw out the court on the basis of it being a vestige of the Mubarak dictatorship, then reinstate parliament.
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« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2012, 02:54:29 am »
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My somewhat significant other who is a Coptic Christian, expressed deep worry today.
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« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2012, 07:58:01 am »
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Tantawi's really going? I honestly thought this was going to be a "Mister Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it" case.
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« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2012, 08:20:29 am »
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Tantawi's really going? I honestly thought this was going to be a "Mister Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it" case.

Yes, Tantawi's really going:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/12/egyptian-defence-chief-ousted-shakeup?newsfeed=true

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Tantawi and Anan were honoured with accolades, Tantawi receiving the highest medal in the country, the Order of the Nile, and Anan also receiving a medal, which has led to speculation that rather than indicating a face-off, this latest move comes as part of the "safe exit scenario" that would see Scaf members leave office without fear of prosecution for crimes committed against protesters during their tenure, including when army APCs ran over Coptic Christian protesters on 9 October 2011, killing 27.

Now the battle will be between the Muslim Brotherhood and the courts.  The constitutional court will probably call most of the constitutional decrees Morsi is issuing to be illegal.
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« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2012, 09:05:09 am »
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For Morden: Morsi's proposed timetable is that he appoints a new Constitutional Convention over the next two weeks, they produce a document over the course of the following three months, one month later to be followed by a referenda on whether or not to adopt the new constitution, and if the constitution passes, new popular elections would be held two months after the adoption of the new constitution.

That does mean that for the next ~half a year, Morsi would basically be the government, if this timetable is adopted.
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« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2012, 10:57:56 am »
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This is terrible.  Is there any chance Tantawi will refuse and have a coup d'état?
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« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2012, 06:47:43 pm »
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This is terrible.  Is there any chance Tantawi will refuse and have a coup d'état?

No. Tantawi's very old and likely very tired by now.
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« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2012, 07:16:58 pm »
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This is tough to assess, because it looks like Morsi has basically grabbed absolute power for himself on an interim basis until a new constitution and new parliament are in place.  The question is how he's going to use that power.  Is he actually going to try to work with secular liberals to write the new constitution and establish the new system, or shut them out of the game?

"Did Egypt's President Just Make Himself a Dictator?"

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Among many things to watch for is if Morsi entrenches power within the judiciary, a move that could really destroy any semblance of a separation of powers and would cause alarm among U.S. officials, notes Ignatius. "Worries about the judiciary were prompted by another Morsi move Sunday — to appoint senior judge Mahmoud Mekki as vice president. The fear is that Mekki, as a former jurist, might reject rulings by the courts," he writes. Also, conservative hawk Barry Rubin notes that the Brotherhood has also taken control of the media. "Muslim Brotherhood President al-Mursi has also just named the editors of the top Egyptian newspaper and other media outlets. They are state-owned, you know, and there are a half-dozen good little independent newspapers."
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« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2012, 08:15:35 pm »
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Stuff like this is also less than encouraging:

Egypt TV boss, journalist to be tried for insulting Morsi
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« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2012, 02:12:50 am »
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Stuff like this is also less than encouraging:

Egypt TV boss, journalist to be tried for insulting Morsi


So Morsi is more like John Adams than Thomas Jefferson?
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« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2012, 02:29:10 am »
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Now I am more ambivalent toward the situation. It seems that the imperialists are using both the Muslim Brotherhood and the military to hedge their bets:

Pentagon: U.S. to Retain Close Ties with Egypt’s Military

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The Egyptian president replaced Tantawi, who had forged links with top American brass over decades, with Abdel Fattah al-Sissi, head of military intelligence.

“The new defense minister is someone who’s known to us; he comes from within the ranks of the SCAF, and we believe we’ll be able to continue the strong partnership that we have with Egypt,” Little said.

U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta “looks forward” to calling him “at the earliest possible moment,” he added.
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