Brevik convicted

[Filuwaúrdjan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19365616

[Vosem]

This was actually brought up at lunch today, "look at crazy Norway which doesn't have a death penalty." Out of eight people, not including myself, one girl dissented, said it was too lenient but that governments shouldn't have a death penalty. The others said Norway was crazy for not having one. Discussing politics at school is unusual, so I thought I'd bring it up.

[Yelnoc]

How old will he be 21 years?  Still capable of shooting people, I would think.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

This was actually brought up at lunch today, "look at crazy Norway which doesn't have a death penalty." Out of eight people, not including myself, one girl dissented, said it was too lenient but that governments shouldn't have a death penalty. The others said Norway was crazy for not having one. Discussing politics at school is unusual, so I thought I'd bring it up.

Your school sounds like an awful place.

[MaxQue]

How old will he be 21 years?  Still capable of shooting people, I would think.

Justice can lenghten the prison term if needed.

[Yelnoc]

How old will he be 21 years?  Still capable of shooting people, I would think.

Justice can lenghten the prison term if needed.

I saw that, but this case has made me wonder if the Norwegian justice system has the cojones to do that.

[Franzl]

Norway has certainly shown how the rule of law should work.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

How old will he be 21 years?  Still capable of shooting people, I would think.

It's far more likely that he'd be found hanging from a lamppost were that to happen (and it won't). The thing about long prison sentences for known reprobates is that part of the point is to spare the legal system the embarrassment of dealing with a lynching.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Norway has certainly shown how the rule of law should work.

Yes, it's unusual to be even slightly impressed with a court case, but this has been a little different; any mystique that might have attached itself Brevik has been preemptively squashed.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

This was actually brought up at lunch today, "look at crazy Norway which doesn't have a death penalty." Out of eight people, not including myself, one girl dissented, said it was too lenient but that governments shouldn't have a death penalty. The others said Norway was crazy for not having one. Discussing politics at school is unusual, so I thought I'd bring it up.

Your school sounds like an awful place.

What's somewhat confusing or just showing of ignorance is that his state also doesn't have the death penalty. So they can disagree with Norway not having it but it's a little odd to be talking about "crazy Norway" for not having it when you live in a state that's the same way.

[Vosem]

This was actually brought up at lunch today, "look at crazy Norway which doesn't have a death penalty." Out of eight people, not including myself, one girl dissented, said it was too lenient but that governments shouldn't have a death penalty. The others said Norway was crazy for not having one. Discussing politics at school is unusual, so I thought I'd bring it up.

Your school sounds like an awful place.

What's somewhat confusing or just showing of ignorance is that his state also doesn't have the death penalty. So they can disagree with Norway not having it but it's a little odd to be talking about "crazy Norway" for not having it when you live in a state that's the same way.

I've noted many times that although my avatar is Illinois (which, yes, doesn't have the death penalty), I live in Ohio (which does).

[Antonio the Sixth]

Norway has certainly shown how the rule of law should work.

[後援会]

How many months is that per murder? Three months? Four months?

[dead0man]

I have no problem with this.  I'm sure they won't be letting this scum out in 21 years.  I'd have no problem with them hanging him from the nearest tree either, but I understand the desire to be more civilized.

[Redalgo]

From what I heard it is a 21 year sentence with a minimum of 10 to be served, yet it can be extended for however much longer the state sees fit if after that duration of time if Brevik is still reasonably considered a threat to society. Overall, my opinion is basically along the lines of...

Norway has certainly shown how the rule of law should work.

[All Along The Watchtower]

This was actually brought up at lunch today, "look at crazy Norway which doesn't have a death penalty." Out of eight people, not including myself, one girl dissented, said it was too lenient but that governments shouldn't have a death penalty. The others said Norway was crazy for not having one. Discussing politics at school is unusual, so I thought I'd bring it up.

Your school sounds like an awful place.

My personal opinion is that it is a rather natural reaction shared by most people, both in the US and the world at large, that somebody who kills 77 people should die. (Also, a bit of selection bias; people who sit at the same lunch table tend to have vaguely similar cultural beliefs.) As for my school, here're some things worth reading:

Wikipedia article (pretty outdated, but the demographics haven't changed much and are worth a look to get a sense of the sort of students who go there): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westlake_High_School_(Ohio)

EDIT: Urban Dictionary has a different opinion of the school's demographics:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Westlake%20High%20School

It's not a "natural" reaction unless you're a sociopath.

[MASHED POTATOES. VOTE!]

I have no problem with this.  I'm sure they won't be letting this scum out in 21 years.  I'd have no problem with them hanging him from the nearest tree either, but I understand the desire to be more civilized.

Yeah, this sentence it's basically life in prison with some possibility of parole and I don't see him likely to be out.

[Free Palestine]

Now will all the bloodthirsty idiots calling for him to be publicly hanged shut up?

I really wish Americans could be more like the Norwegians -- in terms of not responding to tragedies by forming lynch mobs.  Really, it bothers me, the way some people can be so casual about human death and suffering, so long as the person facing death and suffering "deserves it."

[Vosem]

Now will all the bloodthirsty idiots calling for him to be publicly hanged shut up?

I really wish Americans could be more like the Norwegians -- in terms of not responding to tragedies by forming lynch mobs.  Really, it bothers me, the way some people can be so casual about human death and suffering, so long as the person facing death and suffering "deserves it."

I suppose there's no way an anarchist could support the death penalty.

But you don't think somebody who's inflicted vast amounts of death and suffering on other people deserves it himself?

And I don't think he should be hanged publicly, if only because of the opportunity for him to be made into some sort of martyr. Settle it away from the actual eye of the public (though of course it should be publicly announced). I'm really just quibbling though.

[Antonio the Sixth]

To me, it doesn't really matter what someone "deserves". The point is that I don't think the State, ie the embodiment of a collective of citizens, should perform the act of killing someone. Or, to put it differently, I don't think Breivik should be left alive out of compassion for him. I think the State should leave him alive because it makes it (and, therefor, us) morally superior.

[Free Palestine]

Now will all the bloodthirsty idiots calling for him to be publicly hanged shut up?

I really wish Americans could be more like the Norwegians -- in terms of not responding to tragedies by forming lynch mobs.  Really, it bothers me, the way some people can be so casual about human death and suffering, so long as the person facing death and suffering "deserves it."

I suppose there's no way an anarchist could support the death penalty.

But you don't think somebody who's inflicted vast amounts of death and suffering on other people deserves it himself?

Well, anarchists can't support the death penalty, but extrajudicial killings are fine with some of us (not me).

And, really, no.  I don't see the point in that.  If someone commits massive amounts of death and suffering, they should be prevented from being able to commit any more death and suffering.  Anything else is simply unnecessary.  And as long as the state is going to exist, I think it should do what it can to ensure that the person is still treated humanely -- which is why I like Norway's justice system.

However, if, say, Breivik were given superpowers by Odin and could only be stopped by being shot between the eyes with a high-powered rifle, then I'd be fine with that.

You're lucky you caught me in my "rational" mood, instead of how I get after watching a documentary about Nazis.

[MaxQue]

Now will all the bloodthirsty idiots calling for him to be publicly hanged shut up?

I really wish Americans could be more like the Norwegians -- in terms of not responding to tragedies by forming lynch mobs.  Really, it bothers me, the way some people can be so casual about human death and suffering, so long as the person facing death and suffering "deserves it."

I suppose there's no way an anarchist could support the death penalty.

But you don't think somebody who's inflicted vast amounts of death and suffering on other people deserves it himself?

Indeed. He deserves suffering. And he will suffer much more being stuck between walls than being dead.
It's way worse to know than you'll be in prison for decades and than you'll never get out until your death. It's longer and it makes him suffer more.
A dead person can't suffer.

[Joe Republic]

But you don't think somebody who's inflicted vast amounts of death and suffering on other people deserves it himself?

Indeed. He deserves suffering. And he will suffer much more being stuck between walls than being dead.
It's way worse to know than you'll be in prison for decades and than you'll never get out until your death. It's longer and it makes him suffer more.
A dead person can't suffer.

I've been saying this here for years, but you'd be amazed how difficult it is for the death penalty advocates here to grasp it.

Of course, some of them (not necessarily anyone here, but still) entertain the belief that there is a worse 'punishment' than prison waiting for them after their execution.  That's the point where I guess I give up.  I can't discuss rational topics that affect human life and death with someone who believes that.  [/mini-rant]

[Free Palestine]

What good does inflicting suffering on those who "deserve it" do?  Nothing, except provide satisfaction to the society inflicting that suffering.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

I don't see why people are bringing up the death penalty; it's really not an issue in this case for multiple reasons, at least two of which are too obvious to bother pointing out. Not everything is about the cross between psychodrama and showbusiness that we call American Politics.