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Author Topic: Whig Liberty Caucus  (Read 1034 times)
Supersonic
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« Reply #25 on: September 02, 2012, 08:17:28 am »
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Hmm, don't really think this is for me. I'm not a libertarian at heart. I, for one, love wire-tapping, the PATRIOT Act, the 'War on Drugs'; not to mention my 3rd favourite pastime is 'smelling the napalm in the morning'.

Oh well. Tongue
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Being a Libertarian is like having a fever, either you sweat it out or you die from it.
Goldwater
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« Reply #26 on: September 02, 2012, 08:36:09 am »
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Hmm, don't really think this is for me. I'm not a libertarian at heart. I, for one, love wire-tapping, the PATRIOT Act, the 'War on Drugs'; not to mention my 3rd favourite pastime is 'smelling the napalm in the morning'.

Oh well. Tongue

It's only your third favorite pastime? What are the other two?
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Scott
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« Reply #27 on: September 02, 2012, 10:36:03 am »
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I don't think a person can call oneself a libertarian unless they legitimately believe that every aspect of government ought to be minimized and not expanded in any way, shape, or form -- hence why I stopped using the word to classify my ideology a long time ago, but that's just me. Tongue

What about roundabout arguments (sort of recognizing that while the government and other individuals can infringe on liberty, the corporation is just as capable of doing so; thus, the proper role of government is to protect our liberties from both other individuals and corporations)? Roundabout arguments like the idea we need freedom of movement, so yes, the government can build the roads. We need freedom to live without being poisoned, so yes, the government can create national parks, restrict pollution, etc. People aren't really free unless they're free to actually live, so yes, the government can set a minimum wage. No one can be truly free if they are in fear for their lives, so yes, the government can fund emergency services and even some welfare programs. Government isn't the solution to the nation's problems, but it isn't so much about minimizing government intrusion, it's maximizing individual freedom through those who can protect them best from those who would infringe on them.

Well, what you said is mainly what a small minority of libertarians believe -- those being, of course, left-libertarians.  Personally, I've mostly encountered the 'Austrian school-type' libertarians who seem to want to tear every wall of government down, or at least just short of doing so, so that we're living in the kind of country Murray Rothbard idealized: no government whatsoever, including a privatized judicial system.  I know that, obviously, not all libertarians subscribe to the anarcho-capitalist ideology, but their long associations with the Chicago and Austrian schools makes them appear overly idealistic to me; in many ways, the Libertarian Party as a whole is much more liberal than the GOP, but it is also more conservative just for its economic platform alone.

Maybe I'm libertarian in the way that I absolutely despise the idea that we should all sacrifice constitutionally-protected liberties and privacy rights for some politician's perverted idea of "security," but that's about it. Tongue
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 01:58:24 pm by Senator Scott »Logged
Supersonic
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« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2012, 02:27:13 pm »
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Hmm, don't really think this is for me. I'm not a libertarian at heart. I, for one, love wire-tapping, the PATRIOT Act, the 'War on Drugs'; not to mention my 3rd favourite pastime is 'smelling the napalm in the morning'.

Oh well. Tongue

It's only your third favorite pastime? What are the other two?

My second is destroying healthcare and making sure only the top 1% can access it. My favourite pastime of all though is drinking inexcusable amounts of alcohol.
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« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2012, 02:45:06 pm »
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While this is not the perfect caucus for me - I don't exactly qualify as a "libertarian" - I wish this caucus well. There are many good people in it! Wink
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Jerseyrules
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« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2012, 04:25:03 pm »
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I don't think a person can call oneself a libertarian unless they legitimately believe that every aspect of government ought to be minimized and not expanded in any way, shape, or form -- hence why I stopped using the word to classify my ideology a long time ago, but that's just me. Tongue

What about roundabout arguments (sort of recognizing that while the government and other individuals can infringe on liberty, the corporation is just as capable of doing so; thus, the proper role of government is to protect our liberties from both other individuals and corporations)? Roundabout arguments like the idea we need freedom of movement, so yes, the government can build the roads. We need freedom to live without being poisoned, so yes, the government can create national parks, restrict pollution, etc. People aren't really free unless they're free to actually live, so yes, the government can set a minimum wage. No one can be truly free if they are in fear for their lives, so yes, the government can fund emergency services and even some welfare programs. Government isn't the solution to the nation's problems, but it isn't so much about minimizing government intrusion, it's maximizing individual freedom through those who can protect them best from those who would infringe on them.

Well, what you said is mainly what a small minority of libertarians believe -- those being, of course, left-libertarians.  Personally, I've mostly encountered the 'Austrian school-type' libertarians who seem to want to tear every wall of government down, or at least just short of doing so, so that we're living in the kind of country Murray Rothbard idealized: no government whatsoever, including a privatized judicial system.  I know that, obviously, not all libertarians subscribe to the anarcho-capitalist ideology, but their long associations with the Chicago and Austrian schools makes them appear overly idealistic to me; in many ways, the Libertarian Party as a whole is much more liberal than the GOP, but it is also more conservative just for its economic platform alone.

Maybe I'm libertarian in the way that I absolutely despise the idea that we should all sacrifice constitutionally-protected liberties and privacy rights for some politician's perverted idea of "security," but that's about it. Tongue

Well then I'd consider you as libertarian as Russ Feingold.  You're a libertarian on civil liberties issues, if you aren't rabbid gun control, etc.
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Endorsements:
President: Hillary Clinton
Governor: Brown (CA), Corbett (PA), Scott (FL)
House: Emken (CA)
Other: Rob McCoy (CA Assembly)

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« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2012, 04:26:20 pm »
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Hmm, don't really think this is for me. I'm not a libertarian at heart. I, for one, love wire-tapping, the PATRIOT Act, the 'War on Drugs'; not to mention my 3rd favourite pastime is 'smelling the napalm in the morning'.

Oh well. Tongue

It's only your third favorite pastime? What are the other two?

My second is destroying healthcare and making sure only the top 1% can access it. My favourite pastime of all though is drinking inexcusable amounts of alcohol.

[insert joke about how this is why you Brits spell everything wrong]

Wink Tongue
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An Empire of Stars and Stripes:

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=156974.0

Quote
FOOL!  I AM Cathcon!

Endorsements:
President: Hillary Clinton
Governor: Brown (CA), Corbett (PA), Scott (FL)
House: Emken (CA)
Other: Rob McCoy (CA Assembly)

---------------------------------------

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Jerseyrules
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« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2012, 04:27:13 pm »
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While this is not the perfect caucus for me - I don't exactly qualify as a "libertarian" - I wish this caucus well. There are many good people in it! Wink

Thanks governor, and good luck to you in your bid for re-election Wink
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An Empire of Stars and Stripes:

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=156974.0

Quote
FOOL!  I AM Cathcon!

Endorsements:
President: Hillary Clinton
Governor: Brown (CA), Corbett (PA), Scott (FL)
House: Emken (CA)
Other: Rob McCoy (CA Assembly)

---------------------------------------

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Jerseyrules
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« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2012, 07:21:16 pm »
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Napoleon for second preference?  I'm undecided for mine, but should we even endorse someone for second pref?
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http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=147022.0

An Empire of Stars and Stripes:

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Quote
FOOL!  I AM Cathcon!

Endorsements:
President: Hillary Clinton
Governor: Brown (CA), Corbett (PA), Scott (FL)
House: Emken (CA)
Other: Rob McCoy (CA Assembly)

---------------------------------------

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Goldwater
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« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2012, 09:17:30 pm »
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I think we should only make one presidential endorsement, since only one person can become president.
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Jerseyrules
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« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2012, 01:18:41 am »
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I think we should only make one presidential endorsement, since only one person can become president.

Yeah; the runoff voting thing never really made any sense to me.
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Drink Too Much:
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=147022.0

An Empire of Stars and Stripes:

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=156974.0

Quote
FOOL!  I AM Cathcon!

Endorsements:
President: Hillary Clinton
Governor: Brown (CA), Corbett (PA), Scott (FL)
House: Emken (CA)
Other: Rob McCoy (CA Assembly)

---------------------------------------

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Jerseyrules
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« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2012, 06:05:14 pm »
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Bump.
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An Empire of Stars and Stripes:

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Quote
FOOL!  I AM Cathcon!

Endorsements:
President: Hillary Clinton
Governor: Brown (CA), Corbett (PA), Scott (FL)
House: Emken (CA)
Other: Rob McCoy (CA Assembly)

---------------------------------------

Libertarian Internationalist Monarchist
R2D2
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« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2012, 06:11:33 pm »
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[1] Jbrase
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Jerseyrules
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« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2012, 08:46:54 pm »
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[1] Jbrase

He's not even running!
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An Empire of Stars and Stripes:

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Quote
FOOL!  I AM Cathcon!

Endorsements:
President: Hillary Clinton
Governor: Brown (CA), Corbett (PA), Scott (FL)
House: Emken (CA)
Other: Rob McCoy (CA Assembly)

---------------------------------------

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Scott
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« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2012, 08:47:26 pm »
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Yes he is. Tongue
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Goldwater
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« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2012, 09:57:39 pm »
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I think he was voting on who we should endorse for president, not who should be chairman. Tongue
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Jbrase
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« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2012, 10:04:47 pm »
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Hi guys, just thought I'd pop in here while in the neighborhood. Smiley

An endorsement would be nice. Also, be sure to vote in the primary Sept. 9th.

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Lol at those who think Barrow will lose.
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Glorious news! even Quinnijunk can't get condom hater outside the margin of error, Udall is on track to deliver a good whipping[/q
Jerseyrules
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« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2012, 05:29:41 pm »
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I think he was voting on who we should endorse for president, not who should be chairman. Tongue

Oh.  I'm sorry, I had a massive brain fart Shocked.  I just kinda figured that was already decided unanimously Wink.

Anyway, for the presidential endorsement

[1] JBrase
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An Empire of Stars and Stripes:

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=156974.0

Quote
FOOL!  I AM Cathcon!

Endorsements:
President: Hillary Clinton
Governor: Brown (CA), Corbett (PA), Scott (FL)
House: Emken (CA)
Other: Rob McCoy (CA Assembly)

---------------------------------------

Libertarian Internationalist Monarchist
Goldwater
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« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2012, 05:50:30 pm »
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[1] JBrase
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Jerseyrules
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« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2012, 06:15:04 pm »
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Alright so now let's start voting on party chairman.  (Unless anyone's opposed to doing so).  If RP jumps in he has my endorsement.
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Drink Too Much:
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=147022.0

An Empire of Stars and Stripes:

http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=156974.0

Quote
FOOL!  I AM Cathcon!

Endorsements:
President: Hillary Clinton
Governor: Brown (CA), Corbett (PA), Scott (FL)
House: Emken (CA)
Other: Rob McCoy (CA Assembly)

---------------------------------------

Libertarian Internationalist Monarchist
Goldwater
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« Reply #45 on: September 08, 2012, 07:57:13 pm »
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This isn't really a party, so would you call it a party chairman?
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