SENATE BILL: The Contempt of Congress Act (Law'd)
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  SENATE BILL: The Contempt of Congress Act (Law'd)
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Author Topic: SENATE BILL: The Contempt of Congress Act (Law'd)  (Read 3167 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: September 02, 2012, 09:04:41 PM »
« edited: October 02, 2012, 12:16:58 AM by Senator North Carolina Yankee »

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Sponsor: Ben
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2012, 09:09:56 PM »

Ben you have have 24 hours to advocate for this.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2012, 09:11:50 PM »

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2012, 09:13:34 PM »

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How is this for implementing the Committee's secondary recommendation?
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shua
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« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2012, 10:27:40 PM »

This would constitute a bill of attainder and is beyond the enumerated powers of the Senate.
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« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2012, 10:37:06 PM »

We need to find a way to prevent officials and citizens from refusing to speak to Committees.  This legislation will put the fear of God into them, and ensure that never happens.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2012, 10:40:05 PM »

I am aware of that concern, shua. Would you care to offer a framework that would pass Constitutional muster, then?
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shua
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2012, 08:12:51 PM »

I am aware of that concern, shua. Would you care to offer a framework that would pass Constitutional muster, then?
Not really, since I don't see the need for this.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2012, 02:08:50 AM »

How does the real US Congress do this then?


I do see the need. The committees are very new and could easily be subjected to whims of someone up and deciding they are worthless and thus ignoring their requests and demands. This will ensure that atleast for the duration they exist, they will be taken seriously by such people and thus allow the committees to get a fair chance at success.
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Redalgo
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« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2012, 09:47:20 AM »

The best guess I can think of off the top of my head would be there is an implicit understanding among congresspersons that if any member of a party fails to satisfactorily cooperate with the committees, which seem to always have seats filled with people aligned with both the presiding government and a minority from the opposition, there would be punishments related to patronage delivered within the party rather than by the government as a whole. Alas, because candidates in the game do not really depend upon their parties to be effective instruments of political influence nearly so much as in real life, there is much less of an incentive for individual public officials to go along with all the unspoken rules and procedures established over time within the government.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2012, 12:09:12 AM »

The best guess I can think of off the top of my head would be there is an implicit understanding among congresspersons that if any member of a party fails to satisfactorily cooperate with the committees, which seem to always have seats filled with people aligned with both the presiding government and a minority from the opposition, there would be punishments related to patronage delivered within the party rather than by the government as a whole. Alas, because candidates in the game do not really depend upon their parties to be effective instruments of political influence nearly so much as in real life, there is much less of an incentive for individual public officials to go along with all the unspoken rules and procedures established over time within the government.

Are you certain that is how it works?
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Redalgo
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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2012, 09:25:31 PM »

No - my concentration in study has never been anywhere near parliamentary procedures and I don't know political sociology like the back of my hand. If I were right there would likely be a lot of exceptions. But I do not see anyone else providing ideas, so I suppose this is at least marginally better than letting the thread go silent for a couple days. When in doubt, I try to figure out who controls which strategic resources and how much leverage that might afford them against others.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2012, 01:05:48 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contempt_of_Congress

It is a criminal offense in RL.

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2012, 11:38:05 PM »

Can I get some feedback, based on what I posted? How would it be best to structure this so as to be legal based on our Constitution?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2012, 12:49:40 AM »

We have a new group of people in the Senate now, including some Constitution experience.


Marokai, what do you think of this and how should it proceed and still be valid legally?
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2012, 01:10:51 AM »

Marokai, what do you think of this and how should it proceed and still be valid legally?

Simple, instead of making it an instant punishment which would be a bill of attainder (and subsequently unconstitutional, IMO) just make refusal to appear in front of a Senate committee a crime, specify the range of punishment, and write procedure for a prosecutor to be selected by the committee to bring up the contempt case for judicial review from the Supremes. The court process would basically be a formality and you'd get the same result.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2012, 11:14:59 AM »
« Edited: September 16, 2012, 10:50:03 AM by HagridOfTheDeep »

Not too sure how criminal law works in Atlasia. Does this amendment address Marokai's suggestions?


A suggestion... your thoughts, Marokai?:

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I didn't quite know how to work the impeachment stuff into the wording. So if anyone wants to take a better go at it, be my guest.


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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2012, 12:18:14 AM »

You would have to do it as a ban from holding office, which would compel a resignation, rather then impeachment.

Hagrid, I will make this suggestion to you. If you are desiring feedback on a text, the best way to handle it is to post it without calling/offering it as an amendment. Once you offer it as an amendment though, the process kicks in and you risk a vote, and even a failing one at that, that could have been avoided simply by getting the feedback first. Especially if it is a small concern or issue. One it is resolved, then it can be offered and quickly passed possibly without needing a vote on it.
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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2012, 12:52:04 AM »

Noted. Is it too late for me to edit my post and remove my calling it "an amendment"?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2012, 06:55:02 AM »

It is not to late. It is only too late, if a vote has been started on it.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2012, 06:55:48 AM »

The whole point though is to save time so if Marokai could give a response that would be wonderfull. Tongue
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Marokai Backbeat
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« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2012, 05:22:32 PM »

The whole point though is to save time so if Marokai could give a response that would be wonderfull. Tongue

It seems constitutionally acceptable to me, yes. Tongue
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2012, 12:03:18 AM »

Hagrid do you want to add that ban on holding office in as well, or just leave it with a voting ban?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2012, 12:29:38 AM »

Hagrid?


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HagridOfTheDeep
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« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2012, 06:07:03 PM »

My apologies. I saw the initial message, meant to reply, and then totally forgot. Tongue

An Amendment:

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