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(Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
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Topic: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill (Read 4423 times)
12th Doctor
supersoulty
Moderators
YaBB God
Posts: 20864
Political Matrix
E: 1.38, S: -1.74
(Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
on:
January 25, 2005, 07:27:39 pm »
Using the text for the first one, I would liek to ask that funds be appropriated for the creation of another Heavy Infantry Division:
Quote from: Senator Gabu on January 02, 2005, 04:18:27 am
Submitted by request of John Ford:
Military Division Appropriation Bill
§ 1.
Upon passage of this bill, $10 billion shall be appropriated from the Treasury to the Department of Defense to be used in the creation of an additional division in the Atlasian Army.
I went with $10 billion because that was John Ford's maximum estimate and I figured that it would be better to have money left over rather than to run out of money.
I trust the men and women of our armed forces more than anyone else to know what they need, and if they say that our numbers are too small, then our numbers are too small. I believe that we owe it to them for their willingness to put their lives on the line for Atlasia to ensure that their needs are met.
«
Last Edit: February 01, 2005, 07:58:12 pm by Senator Supersoulty
»
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Gabu
YaBB God
Posts: 28774
Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52
Re: (Another) Military Dividion Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #1 on:
February 01, 2005, 04:06:22 pm »
With the failure of the Cabinet Officers and Structure Bill, a spot has opened up on the floor, so I hereby open debate on this bill.
EDIT: Never mind, I was right the first time and the above bill passes, so technically there shouldn't be a spot for debates, but now that I've opened the floodgates, I'll let it slide and keep debate open.
«
Last Edit: February 01, 2005, 04:22:38 pm by Senator Gabu, PPT
»
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"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains. That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
frenger
Bono
YaBB God
Posts: 11785
Political Matrix
E: 8.65, S: -4.17
Re: (Another) Military Dividion Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #2 on:
February 01, 2005, 04:17:54 pm »
Geez, am I the only one thinking enough is enough?
Logged
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed – and hence clamorous to be led to safety – by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." – H.L. Mencken
NO, I don't want to go back to Fantasy Elections.
Gabu
YaBB God
Posts: 28774
Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52
Re: (Another) Military Dividion Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #3 on:
February 01, 2005, 04:20:53 pm »
Quote from: Senator Bono on February 01, 2005, 04:17:54 pm
Geez, am I the only one thinking enough is enough?
No, I'm personally hesitant, though I certainly will go for it if John Ford can prove to me that this is necessary.
Logged
"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains. That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
The Duke
JohnD.Ford
YaBB God
Posts: 9424
Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: -1.23
Re: (Another) Military Dividion Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #4 on:
February 01, 2005, 07:41:49 pm »
Why I believe this is a worthwhile expenditure.
Most analysts believe the Army is too small. IRL, Congressional Democrats have signed a petitition asking for an increase in the size of the Army. Senator Kerry made it part of his campaign platform. Conservatives, most louldy those at the Weekly Standard, have editorialized in favor of an enlarged force. There is a broad spectrum of acknowledgement that in the modern world, with the US carrying out a wider range of missions around the world and recieving less allied help than it would like, a larger military is required.
The small size of the military has caused problems for us. Longer tours of duty for soldiers and shorter stays stateside have hurt recruitment and retainment and led to the triggering of the ready reserve program, whereby enlisted personnel are held in service beyond their enlistment period and those who have left the military are called back to serve. The National Guard has been hardest hit, with civilian soldiers unable to carry out both their military and civilian duties under such pressure.
In Atlasia, we have 13 Divisions in the Army, thats three more than IRL. This has eased the strain significantly, but it is not enough. In his last report as GM, Hughento points out that we have enough personnel in Iraq to hold the major urban areas, but not the rest of the country. As a result, the insurgency still can move weapons across the Syrian and Iranian borders.
With the 10 Division Army I inherited, we did not have enough men to sustain a 130,000 strong force in Iraq. Now, we do. However, the force in Iraq is still not large enough to secure the entire country. Adding another division would give us enough people to increase our presence on the Syrian border and stop weapons from flowing into the country. If we tried to increase our presence there, we would be right back where we started in terms of over stretching the force.
A second reason for increasing the Army's size is contingency planning. We have enough men to deal with iraq, but we have almost nothing in reserve if something goes wrong elsewhere inthe world. There are a dozen hot spots like Haiti where we could be called on to stabilize a country or area with our own people until international forces can be assembled to do peacekeeping and we can leave. We need a force alrge enough to handle such contingencies.
Logged
Quote from: Scam of God on December 24, 2009, 11:27:46 am
Shut you hole... Conservatism is dead. I hope I get to see your head paraded on a pike with it.
Gabu
YaBB God
Posts: 28774
Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #5 on:
February 02, 2005, 04:09:22 pm »
Bump. If we have nothing to debate, I motion to bring this to an early vote. If we do have something to debate, let's do it.
Logged
"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains. That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
The Duke
JohnD.Ford
YaBB God
Posts: 9424
Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: -1.23
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #6 on:
February 02, 2005, 11:44:41 pm »
Just so everyne is sure to read it, there will be some important stuff in my last Defense Department briefing tat Senators need be aware of.
Logged
Quote from: Scam of God on December 24, 2009, 11:27:46 am
Shut you hole... Conservatism is dead. I hope I get to see your head paraded on a pike with it.
Siege40
YaBB God
Posts: 1841
Political Matrix
E: -6.25, S: -4.26
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #7 on:
February 03, 2005, 11:08:04 am »
I support this legislation, largely because I'm a militant Chicken-Hawk.
Siege
Logged
President - July 1, 2005 - Nov 4, 2005
Secretary of State - Mar 6, 2005 - July 1, 2005
Senator - Nov 5, 2004 - Mar 1, 2005
Northeast Governor - Aug 29, 2004 - Nov 5, 2004
Northeast Lt. Governor - Apr 9, 2004 - Aug 29, 2004
PC Scores: Econ - -6.25 Social - -4.26
Canadian registered in Vermont
12th Doctor
supersoulty
Moderators
YaBB God
Posts: 20864
Political Matrix
E: 1.38, S: -1.74
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #8 on:
February 03, 2005, 05:47:12 pm »
I second the motion to end the debate process.
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Nym90
nym90
Modadmin
YaBB God
Posts: 15110
Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #9 on:
February 03, 2005, 05:54:02 pm »
I third.
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WMS
YaBB God
Posts: 5845
Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 0.35
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #10 on:
February 03, 2005, 08:20:17 pm »
I fourth.
Logged
Quote from: Sam Spade on June 07, 2008, 10:56:40 am
The political class has demonized the working class because the political class no longer represents the working class. Neither Republicans or Democrats.
Political Beliefs Summarized:
Gabu
YaBB God
Posts: 28774
Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #11 on:
February 03, 2005, 09:18:29 pm »
With three senators concurring, I hereby declare debate to have ended and voting to have begun.
All senators in favor, vote "yea"; all senators against, vote "nay".
Logged
"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains. That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
WMS
YaBB God
Posts: 5845
Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 0.35
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #12 on:
February 03, 2005, 09:19:53 pm »
Earlier vote superceded by vote on Page 2.
«
Last Edit: February 03, 2005, 09:41:57 pm by Senator WMS
»
Logged
Quote from: Sam Spade on June 07, 2008, 10:56:40 am
The political class has demonized the working class because the political class no longer represents the working class. Neither Republicans or Democrats.
Political Beliefs Summarized:
The Duke
JohnD.Ford
YaBB God
Posts: 9424
Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: -1.23
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #13 on:
February 03, 2005, 09:23:08 pm »
WAIT! I want to amend this bill, give me second to get the language pasted on here.
I want to add the $80 billion supplemental and the troop pay increase to this so we can get three things done in one bill. The floor is crowded with enough bills, we don't need 3 seperate bills for this.
Logged
Quote from: Scam of God on December 24, 2009, 11:27:46 am
Shut you hole... Conservatism is dead. I hope I get to see your head paraded on a pike with it.
WMS
YaBB God
Posts: 5845
Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 0.35
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #14 on:
February 03, 2005, 09:24:22 pm »
Okay, I'll freeze my vote in stasis, if that's okay with everyone. I'll vote for it anyway, of course...
Logged
Quote from: Sam Spade on June 07, 2008, 10:56:40 am
The political class has demonized the working class because the political class no longer represents the working class. Neither Republicans or Democrats.
Political Beliefs Summarized:
Gabu
YaBB God
Posts: 28774
Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #15 on:
February 03, 2005, 09:28:07 pm »
Okay, I'll wait until John amends the bill, though I don't see why I wouldn't vote for it.
Logged
"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains. That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
The Duke
JohnD.Ford
YaBB God
Posts: 9424
Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: -1.23
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #16 on:
February 03, 2005, 09:30:39 pm »
I didn't think it would change many votes, but just to consolidate and all.
Proposed Amendment:
§ 2.
$80 billion shall be appropriated as a supplement to the 2005 Defense Budget to fund ongoing operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.
§ 3.
A $2,000 a year pay increase for all active duty military personnel and a $1,000 pay increase for all reserve and National Guard personnel shall take effect in the fiscal year 2005. This measure shall cost $4 billion.
Logged
Quote from: Scam of God on December 24, 2009, 11:27:46 am
Shut you hole... Conservatism is dead. I hope I get to see your head paraded on a pike with it.
Gabu
YaBB God
Posts: 28774
Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #17 on:
February 03, 2005, 09:37:29 pm »
Okay, well, technically, since John is not the originator of this bill, we need to do a vote on the amendment, but just to speed things along, I'm going to do the following:
All senators, please vote "yea" or "nay" on the amendment itself, then on the bill
without
the amendment, and then on the bill
with
the amendment. That way, we don't have to split it into two separate votes and waste more time.
Yea/Yea/Yea.
Logged
"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains. That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
Jake
dubya2004
YaBB God
Posts: 18852
Political Matrix
E: -0.90, S: -0.35
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #18 on:
February 03, 2005, 09:39:49 pm »
The bill:
Military Division Appropriation Bill
§ 1.
Upon passage of this bill, $10 billion shall be appropriated from the Treasury to the Department of Defense to be used in the creation of an additional division in the Atlasian Army.
Proposed Amendment:
§ 2.
$80 billion shall be appropriated as a supplement to the 2005 Defense Budget to fund ongoing operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.
§ 3.
A $2,000 a year pay increase for all active duty military personnel and a $1,000 pay increase for all reserve and National Guard personnel shall take effect in the fiscal year 2005. This measure shall cost $4 billion.
Logged
The Duke
JohnD.Ford
YaBB God
Posts: 9424
Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: -1.23
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #19 on:
February 03, 2005, 09:40:05 pm »
I assume my second vote only counts if the amendment fails?
On Amendment: Yea
On UnAmended Bill: Yea
On Amended Bill: Yea
Logged
Quote from: Scam of God on December 24, 2009, 11:27:46 am
Shut you hole... Conservatism is dead. I hope I get to see your head paraded on a pike with it.
WMS
YaBB God
Posts: 5845
Political Matrix
E: -0.52, S: 0.35
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #20 on:
February 03, 2005, 09:41:14 pm »
Yea/Yea/Yea.
Logged
Quote from: Sam Spade on June 07, 2008, 10:56:40 am
The political class has demonized the working class because the political class no longer represents the working class. Neither Republicans or Democrats.
Political Beliefs Summarized:
12th Doctor
supersoulty
Moderators
YaBB God
Posts: 20864
Political Matrix
E: 1.38, S: -1.74
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #21 on:
February 03, 2005, 09:46:05 pm »
Yea/Yea/Yea
Logged
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frenger
Bono
YaBB God
Posts: 11785
Political Matrix
E: 8.65, S: -4.17
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #22 on:
February 04, 2005, 03:01:37 am »
I want to ask for a section by section vote on the ammendment.
Logged
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed – and hence clamorous to be led to safety – by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." – H.L. Mencken
NO, I don't want to go back to Fantasy Elections.
The Duke
JohnD.Ford
YaBB God
Posts: 9424
Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: -1.23
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #23 on:
February 04, 2005, 03:03:15 am »
Which section do you object to?
Logged
Quote from: Scam of God on December 24, 2009, 11:27:46 am
Shut you hole... Conservatism is dead. I hope I get to see your head paraded on a pike with it.
Gabu
YaBB God
Posts: 28774
Political Matrix
E: -4.32, S: -6.52
Re: (Another) Military Division Appropriations Bill
«
Reply #24 on:
February 04, 2005, 03:04:43 am »
Quote from: John Ford on February 03, 2005, 09:40:05 pm
I assume my second vote only counts if the amendment fails?
On Amendment: Yea
On UnAmended Bill: Yea
On Amended Bill: Yea
Yes, I'll take whichever vote is applicable, depending on whether or not the amendment passes.
Quote from: Senator Bono on February 04, 2005, 03:01:37 am
I want to ask for a section by section vote on the ammendment.
Er, can we even do that? I haven't seen that before.
At any rate... I'd really prefer not to start up voting a third time; if you have a problem with part of the amendment, I think the easiest thing to do would be to vote against the amendment, hope it fails, and then propose the part that you approve of later.
Logged
"To me, 'underground' sounds like subway trains. That's the only sound I associate with 'underground'." - Everett
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