Question about Israel vs Palestine support

[Sbane]

So basically we have a history where Israel forcefully took land from other people, sometimes using the same terrorist tactics used by the Palestinians today. So why do some people only care about it when Palestinians blow themselves up? Why not compare that to what Israelis did in the past? Or talk about the continuous removal of Palestinians from their lands to this day to create settlements? Why do people ignore this? Obviously it's not as if Palestinians are blameless in this whole mess, but why do people only look at it from the Israeli perspective? Why the double standard? Is it just due to the media coverage or is it just racism?

[The Mikado]

So why do some people only care about it when Palestinians blow themselves up?

Nitpick, but it's worth noting that the terrorist bombings of the 1940s were not suicide bombings, a tactic that doesn't see widespread use until the 1970s.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

This thread will end well.

[Sbane]

This thread will end well.

I started another thread. I have a feeling we will see more posts in the Individual politics board in the next 24 hours than it has seen in a month.

This is interesting to me though. I don't actually think it is racism...just media coverage and ignorance. Most people don't realize the type of conditions Palestinians are forced to live in and the way they are treated by the Israelis.

[Sbane]

So why do some people only care about it when Palestinians blow themselves up?

Nitpick, but it's worth noting that the terrorist bombings of the 1940s were not suicide bombings, a tactic that doesn't see widespread use until the 1970s.

Good point actually. The fact that they blow themselves up makes them seem more crazy. And I don't have a very high opinion of their violent desert culture, and is one reason why they are having such a hard time finding sympathy. For me it's quite simple, the Palestinian people have not been treated right regardless of their level of craziness.

[Emperor Dubya]

I support Israel. Israel is the only stable democracy in the middle-east (possibly excepting Turkey). It stood as a bulwark against Communism in the 20th Century, and as a bulwark against Terrorism in the 21st. The idea of giving the Palestianians a state, when 50 years ago it would have become another appendage of the Soviet Union, and at this present point would become a haven for Islamic Terrorists, is a superficial, dangerous, wrong headed and thoroughly strange idea.

[Pingvin]

^^^^
Israel is an Europe's bastion that is trying to defend it from green plague.

[Donerail]

I support Israel. Israel is the only stable democracy in the middle-east (possibly excepting Turkey). It stood as a bulwark against Communism in the 20th Century, and as a bulwark against Terrorism in the 21st. The idea of giving the Palestianians a state, when 50 years ago it would have become another appendage of the Soviet Union, and at this present point would become a haven for Islamic Terrorists, is a superficial, dangerous, wrong headed and thoroughly strange idea.

You know what's even more thoroughly strange? Why someone would create 5 accounts for the sole purpose of trolling this forum. Go away BD.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

No, but they are often very stubborn in their refusal to look at the situation with fairness.

[TJ in Oregon]

I support Israel. Israel is the only stable democracy in the middle-east (possibly excepting Turkey). It stood as a bulwark against Communism in the 20th Century, and as a bulwark against Terrorism in the 21st. The idea of giving the Palestianians a state, when 50 years ago it would have become another appendage of the Soviet Union, and at this present point would become a haven for Islamic Terrorists, is a superficial, dangerous, wrong headed and thoroughly strange idea.

Why would having a state be any more of a haven for Islamic terrorists than unrecognized Palestinian territories without clear borders or a well-defined government? Wasn't the main point of a neoconservative foreign policy to bring Democracy to the people of the world, free them from oppressive regimes, and allow them to have a say in their government? Wouldn't having two states, one for Israel and one for Palestine help to achieve this end?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Not necessarily racist, but it strikes me as a rather myopic worldview. Israel looks pretty ugly through a Palestinian lens. Many Palestinians carry it much too far, but it is quite normal that they would not like the Israeli government.

[Free Palestine]

I support Israel. Israel is the only stable democracy in the middle-east (possibly excepting Turkey). It stood as a bulwark against Communism in the 20th Century, and as a bulwark against Terrorism in the 21st. The idea of giving the Palestianians a state, when 50 years ago it would have become another appendage of the Soviet Union, and at this present point would become a haven for Islamic Terrorists, is a superficial, dangerous, wrong headed and thoroughly strange idea.

All bullsh#t reasons to support Israel.

Palestinians homes, including entire villages, are demolished all the time.  Palestinians are banned from driving on certain roads.  Settlements are often built on private Palestinian land (and when they aren't, they're still illegal under international law and are very much an act of ethnic cleansing), and some have pools while surrounding Palestinian villages have water shortages.  Settlers constantly harass and terrorize the natives.  Palestinians in the West Bank are subject to different legal regulations than Israeli settlers.

To answer the OP's question: it's either a sign of racism, or just stupidity.  There's a lot of left-wing people who support Israel 'cuz they got gay rights, for instance.

[Free Palestine]

^^^^
Israel is an Europe's bastion that is trying to defend it from green plague.

Okay, honestly: f#ck you if you think Muslims are in any way a "plague."

[Antonio the Sixth]

I support Israel. Israel is the only stable democracy in the middle-east (possibly excepting Turkey). It stood as a bulwark against Communism in the 20th Century, and as a bulwark against Terrorism in the 21st. The idea of giving the Palestianians a state, when 50 years ago it would have become another appendage of the Soviet Union, and at this present point would become a haven for Islamic Terrorists, is a superficial, dangerous, wrong headed and thoroughly strange idea.

This is especially funny considering how the USSR was one of the earlier supporters of Israel (and the strong influence of socialism in the Zionist movement).

[Redalgo]

I reckon it is not really an either-or choice of who to side with. And just as one need not be an anti-Semite to be pro-Palestinian, one need not be an Islamophobe or anti-Arab racist to feel a strong affinity with the pro-Israel position. Most folks I talk to about it who do not care for the plight of Palestinians seem to be of that inclination because of their ignorance concerning the conflict itself - not because they believe being ethnically Jewish makes a person innately better than those who are Arab or of Islamic faith. To be fair though, it does not surprise me anymore when an American tells me that Palestinians yearn to purge Israel and Jews from the face of the Earth - lol.

I like the Israelis and Palestinians alike, and only consider myself with the Palestinian "side" since the ideal outcomes I want to see unfold in the Holy Lands require greater compromises from Israel at this point than they do from Palestine. If anybody, my opponents in the conflict are religious fundamentalists and violent extremists in both nations, whose stubborn insistence on taking their dogmatic, superstitious beliefs to harmful lengths is still needlessly complicating the occasional attempts by cooler, more sensible factions to resolve the conflict.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I support Israel. Israel is the only stable democracy in the middle-east (possibly excepting Turkey). It stood as a bulwark against Communism in the 20th Century, and as a bulwark against Terrorism in the 21st. The idea of giving the Palestianians a state, when 50 years ago it would have become another appendage of the Soviet Union, and at this present point would become a haven for Islamic Terrorists, is a superficial, dangerous, wrong headed and thoroughly strange idea.

Did you know that Israel was founded upon Socialism?

[Sbane]

I like the Israelis and Palestinians alike, and only consider myself with the Palestinian "side" since the ideal outcomes I want to see unfold in the Holy Lands require greater compromises from Israel at this point than they do from Palestine. If anybody, my opponents in the conflict are religious fundamentalists and violent extremists in both nations, whose stubborn insistence on taking their dogmatic, superstitious beliefs to harmful lengths is still needlessly complicating the occasional attempts by cooler, more sensible factions to resolve the conflict.

I completely agree with this. The Israeli side needs to make more compromises from the current situation but they hold more power making it unlikely. It's quite a clusterfukc. And of course the extremists on both sides.

[NY Jew]

This thread will end well.

I started another thread. I have a feeling we will see more posts in the Individual politics board in the next 24 hours than it has seen in a month.

This is interesting to me though. I don't actually think it is racism...just media coverage and ignorance. Most people don't realize the type of conditions Palestinians are forced to live in and the way they are treated by the Israelis.

you know they had a waterpark before Hamas burned it down

[NY Jew]

I support Israel. Israel is the only stable democracy in the middle-east (possibly excepting Turkey). It stood as a bulwark against Communism in the 20th Century, and as a bulwark against Terrorism in the 21st. The idea of giving the Palestianians a state, when 50 years ago it would have become another appendage of the Soviet Union, and at this present point would become a haven for Islamic Terrorists, is a superficial, dangerous, wrong headed and thoroughly strange idea.

Did you know that Israel was founded upon Socialism?

way to simplistic.
though it's a good thing Likud took over in 1977. 

[Emperor Dubya]

I support Israel. Israel is the only stable democracy in the middle-east (possibly excepting Turkey). It stood as a bulwark against Communism in the 20th Century, and as a bulwark against Terrorism in the 21st. The idea of giving the Palestianians a state, when 50 years ago it would have become another appendage of the Soviet Union, and at this present point would become a haven for Islamic Terrorists, is a superficial, dangerous, wrong headed and thoroughly strange idea.

Did you know that Israel was founded upon Socialism?

Meh, you could call it socialism. But remember, at the same time, most other western countries were busy creating socialist institutions, e.g. Britain with the NHS. My point is that it was still a stable, anti-communist democracy, therefore it was worthy of our support, and today it still is a democracy, and it stands against terrorism, so it is still worthy of support.

[後援会]

I don't really "sympathize" with either the Israeli or Palestinian peoples over the other. I find both cultures to be equally unrelatable. And of course, the conflict and violence is quite unfortunate. And I do admit that in the current situation, the Palestinians are suffering far more than the Israelis.

However, I don't think one can be pragmatically "pro-Palestinian". The fact of the matter is that Israel is a liberal democracy that meets almost all of the standards of a free society. And most importantly of all, Israel respects minority rights, especially the rights of its Arab citizens (20% of Israel). Of course, there are still injustices perpetrated, but in the free society that is Israel, at least there are ways to gain redress. Arabs have taken cases to the Supreme Court of Israel (which an Arab sits on) and won.

On the other hand, there is no functional civil society in Palestine. The most powerful political group in society, Hamas, is an intolerant and violent group. The two simply cannot be compared.

Regardless of whether you support Israel's current policies (I personally don't, especially their settler policies), regardless of whether you like Israelis or Palestinians "better", and regardless of your views on the Palestine issue, you can't reasonably not support Israel, the democratic, minority rights-respecting society.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Why not compare that to what Israelis did in the past?

What would that accomplish at this point?

[Free Palestine]

I support Israel. Israel is the only stable democracy in the middle-east (possibly excepting Turkey). It stood as a bulwark against Communism in the 20th Century, and as a bulwark against Terrorism in the 21st. The idea of giving the Palestianians a state, when 50 years ago it would have become another appendage of the Soviet Union, and at this present point would become a haven for Islamic Terrorists, is a superficial, dangerous, wrong headed and thoroughly strange idea.

Did you know that Israel was founded upon Socialism?

Meh, you could call it socialism. But remember, at the same time, most other western countries were busy creating socialist institutions, e.g. Britain with the NHS. My point is that it was still a stable, anti-communist democracy, therefore it was worthy of our support, and today it still is a democracy, and it stands against terrorism, so it is still worthy of support.

And if it was a "pro-communist" democracy it would be worthy of a CIA-backed coup, amiright?

[Sbane]

Why not compare that to what Israelis did in the past?

What would that accomplish at this point?

Awareness. Many people don't know it happened, and only see Palestinian terrorist acts through the media. Of course they could also show what's going on today in the Palestinian territories but perhaps that's not good for ratings.

[Peter the Lefty]

The best solution in the beginning would've been a binational state between both Israelis and Palestinians, however volatile it would've been in the beginning.  Would've had Hebrew, Arabic, Yiddish, and English as its official languages, and a constitution guaranteeing democracy and protection for both groups.  Oh, what a dream. 

But in this reality, I always am much more sympathetic to the Palestinians.  Israel has treated them like sh**t since its founding, and even if it was founded upon socialism, that "socialism" was only for Jews, and not for Arabs, which means that it wasn't actually socialism.  They've massacred and expelled countless times and gotten away with it.