Opinion of the Christian Social Party of Switzerland

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Social_Party_(Switzerland)

FP big time for sure. I wish there was more parties like this (The Netherlands did have the Evangelical People's Party in the 80s before they folded into the Greens, another great party from what it sounds like.)

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Seems pretty good, though in terms of policy positions as opposed to rhetoric I don't see from that very brief overview what's uniquely Christian about it.

[後援会]

Tolerable.

And the Christian Left actually has a future. Even though the Democrats are dashing to the left on social issues (lol, Sandra Fluke), I don't think it's going to be a long-term slide. The minorities who are going to become the bulk of the Democratic Party (in the USA) in a generation or two are largely religious and much more religious than say, the secular, wealthy whites who currently dominate the party.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Tolerable.

And the Christian Left actually has a future. Even though the Democrats are dashing to the left on social issues (lol, Sandra Fluke), I don't think it's going to be a long-term slide. The minorities who are going to become the bulk of the Democratic Party (in the USA) in a generation or two are largely religious and much more religious than say, the secular, wealthy whites who currently dominate the party.

Actually, support for same-sex marriage has grown over the years even with the demographics changes.  I don't see the Democratic Party turning to the right on social issues any time soon.

It's good that there's a Christian Left; I can't even express how annoying it is to be grouped with anti-theists for my views on social issues just as it is to be grouped with conservatives merely for my religious beliefs.

[後援会]

Actually, support for same-sex marriage has grown over the years even with the demographics changes.  I don't see the Democratic Party turning to the right on social issues any time soon.

It's good that there's a Christian Left; I can't even express how annoying it is to be grouped with anti-theists for my views on social issues just as it is to be grouped with conservatives merely for my religious beliefs.

Well, I'm of the opinion that same-sex marriage is going to triumph, quite handily. So handily in fact, that it really gets removed from the table in terms of "social issues". So I'm not really sure SSM is going to be an issue that will really determine whether parties are left-wing or right-wing. After all, we don't pidgeon-hole parties based on their views on alcohol prohibition anymore.

But there are other issues that I can definitely see the Democrats moving towards the center. Abortion being one example - the Democrats have charged to the left with Sandra Fluke, removing "safe, legal, and rare" from the platform, and all of that. I don't think this will be a permanent shift.

When SSM is the law of the land, we might end up moving towards issues where the Democrats can position themselves closer to the center (triangulation!). There will certainly be voices calling for the teaching of LGBT history in public schools, the creation of hate speech laws targeting "heteronormativity", the public funding/support for LGBT-orientated cultural pursuits, and other such stances. I believe the Democratic Party will not heed those calls.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Actually, support for same-sex marriage has grown over the years even with the demographics changes.  I don't see the Democratic Party turning to the right on social issues any time soon.

It's good that there's a Christian Left; I can't even express how annoying it is to be grouped with anti-theists for my views on social issues just as it is to be grouped with conservatives merely for my religious beliefs.

Well, I'm of the opinion that same-sex marriage is going to triumph, quite handily. So handily in fact, that it really gets removed from the table in terms of "social issues". So I'm not really sure SSM is going to be an issue that will really determine whether parties are left-wing or right-wing. After all, we don't pidgeon-hole parties based on their views on alcohol prohibition anymore.

But there are other issues that I can definitely see the Democrats moving towards the center. Abortion being one example - the Democrats have charged to the left with Sandra Fluke, removing "safe, legal, and rare" from the platform, and all of that. I don't think this will be a permanent shift.

When SSM is the law of the land, we might end up moving towards issues where the Democrats can position themselves closer to the center (triangulation!). There will certainly be voices calling for the teaching of LGBT history in public schools, the creation of hate speech laws targeting "heteronormativity", the public funding/support for LGBT-orientated cultural pursuits, and other such stances. I believe the Democratic Party will not heed those calls.

Yeah, I wouldn't expect gay marriage to be as divisive in fifty years as it is now.  Still, I'm confident that there will unfortunately be some folks who cling to the outdated belief when gay marriage is accepted as the status quo.  It'll be an indefensible position in most areas of the country, no doubt, so more people are just going to be in the closet (heheh) on the issue; but I can imagine it will remain the "conservative" position just as it is the "conservative" position to support alcohol prohibition, nowadays -- or at least, that's what Jack Fellure would tell you it is.

As for abortion, I'm not too sure where that will go, but I see no evidence of Democrats triangulating on it very much now.  I don't expect it to be uncontroversial in the next generation, but as you've said, the Democrats have shown a clear shift to the left on this lately, even with the ongoing demographics change in the party.  We also have to take into account the fact that "religious" =/= socially conservative/Republican and there are some people who are actually okay with abortion but totally abhor gay marriage.  The reasoning behind that train of belief, I will never know.  Either way, the Democratic Party won't be the 'anti-religion party' that so many folks construe it as now, nor will it be the 'Christian Leftist party' in the way that European leftist parties emphasize on religion.

[Antonio the Sixth]

Certainly not the worst party in Switzerland, but still pretty clearly a right-wing party, on economic as well as social issues.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Certainly not the worst party in Switzerland, but still pretty clearly a right-wing party, on economic as well as social issues.

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How on earth is this right-wing?

[Antonio the Sixth]

Certainly not the worst party in Switzerland, but still pretty clearly a right-wing party, on economic as well as social issues.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

How on earth is this right-wing?

Well, does it translate into actual policies? From what I've read about Swiss politics, their policies tend to lean to the right of the political spectrum.

[後援会]

Yeah, I wouldn't expect gay marriage to be as divisive in fifty years as it is now.  Still, I'm confident that there will unfortunately be some folks who cling to the outdated belief when gay marriage is accepted as the status quo.  It'll be an indefensible position in most areas of the country, no doubt, so more people are just going to be in the closet (heheh) on the issue; but I can imagine it will remain the "conservative" position just as it is the "conservative" position to support alcohol prohibition, nowadays -- or at least, that's what Jack Fellure would tell you it is.

As for abortion, I'm not too sure where that will go, but I see no evidence of Democrats triangulating on it very much now.  I don't expect it to be uncontroversial in the next generation, but as you've said, the Democrats have shown a clear shift to the left on this lately, even with the ongoing demographics change in the party.  We also have to take into account the fact that "religious" =/= socially conservative/Republican and there are some people who are actually okay with abortion but totally abhor gay marriage.  The reasoning behind that train of belief, I will never know.  Either way, the Democratic Party won't be the 'anti-religion party' that so many folks construe it as now, nor will it be the 'Christian Leftist party' in the way that European leftist parties emphasize on religion.

Well, accepting gay marriage and tolerating it being a legal procedure is very politically different. There are many people who hold very negative views of homosexuals but have no opposition towards legalizes SSM. SSM heading out of the political debate is not necessarily contingent on a vast shift in American attitudes towards homosexuality.

Well, of course religious =/= socially conservative/Republican. But is often is among whites. The overwhelming majority of very religious whites are Republicans. But the overwhelming majority of Democrats who are very religious are minorities. And that latter group is a growing group in society. Though it's quite possible they may get less religious in the future. A "Quiet Revolution" among Hispanics would be uh, quite terrifying.

And accepting legalized abortion to some extent is very different from say, removing "safe, legal, and rare", promoting abortion as a social good, and telling Catholics they "need to get over the conscience thing". Some Democrats used to straddle a more moderate position on abortion (it is very bad, but criminalization is not a solution and we should seek other ways, both legal and policy, to lower its prevalence). Which is largely my position. But it's becoming harder in a party that increasingly castigates policies popular in the rest of the world, by equating parental notification with misogyny, ultrasounds with rape, and etc. I don't think this trend will not portend a long-term shift, because I think the growing non-whiteness of the Democratic Party will snap them back towards the center.

And is it very common for people to be "okay with abortion but hate SSM"? Are there many people who would say that abortion isn't immoral but that SSM is? I know when it comes for polling among Republicans, young Republicans are much more supportive of SSM but usually equally pro-life (or more so).

[TNF]

Freedom party.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Yeah, I wouldn't expect gay marriage to be as divisive in fifty years as it is now.  Still, I'm confident that there will unfortunately be some folks who cling to the outdated belief when gay marriage is accepted as the status quo.  It'll be an indefensible position in most areas of the country, no doubt, so more people are just going to be in the closet (heheh) on the issue; but I can imagine it will remain the "conservative" position just as it is the "conservative" position to support alcohol prohibition, nowadays -- or at least, that's what Jack Fellure would tell you it is.

As for abortion, I'm not too sure where that will go, but I see no evidence of Democrats triangulating on it very much now.  I don't expect it to be uncontroversial in the next generation, but as you've said, the Democrats have shown a clear shift to the left on this lately, even with the ongoing demographics change in the party.  We also have to take into account the fact that "religious" =/= socially conservative/Republican and there are some people who are actually okay with abortion but totally abhor gay marriage.  The reasoning behind that train of belief, I will never know.  Either way, the Democratic Party won't be the 'anti-religion party' that so many folks construe it as now, nor will it be the 'Christian Leftist party' in the way that European leftist parties emphasize on religion.

Well, accepting gay marriage and tolerating it being a legal procedure is very politically different. There are many people who hold very negative views of homosexuals but have no opposition towards legalizes SSM. SSM heading out of the political debate is not necessarily contingent on a vast shift in American attitudes towards homosexuality.

Well, of course religious =/= socially conservative/Republican. But is often is among whites. The overwhelming majority of very religious whites are Republicans. But the overwhelming majority of Democrats who are very religious are minorities. And that latter group is a growing group in society. Though it's quite possible they may get less religious in the future. A "Quiet Revolution" among Hispanics would be uh, quite terrifying.

And accepting legalized abortion to some extent is very different from say, removing "safe, legal, and rare", promoting abortion as a social good, and telling Catholics they "need to get over the conscience thing". Some Democrats used to straddle a more moderate position on abortion (it is very bad, but criminalization is not a solution and we should seek other ways, both legal and policy, to lower its prevalence). Which is largely my position. But it's becoming harder in a party that increasingly castigates policies popular in the rest of the world, by equating parental notification with misogyny, ultrasounds with rape, and etc. I don't think this trend will not portend a long-term shift, because I think the growing non-whiteness of the Democratic Party will snap them back towards the center.

And is it very common for people to be "okay with abortion but hate SSM"? Are there many people who would say that abortion isn't immoral but that SSM is? I know when it comes for polling among Republicans, young Republicans are much more supportive of SSM but usually equally pro-life (or more so).

That's true, but I think there will still be an increasing number of Americans who are accepting of it, especially compared to years before.  Minority groups, though more religious, have, I believe, been becoming more supportive of gay marriage since prop 8 passed.  That might mean they're becoming less religious, but I think it's likely they're just uncomfortable of the idea of religious morals being legislated.

According to Gallup polls, Americans were apparently much more tolerant of abortion and much less tolerant of gay marriage in the early 90s.  Then again, of course, abortion is a difficult issue to poll by asking people if they identify as "pro-choice" or "pro-life" since those words can indicate a variety of opinions as to how much/little abortion should be restricted.

Certainly not the worst party in Switzerland, but still pretty clearly a right-wing party, on economic as well as social issues.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

How on earth is this right-wing?

Well, does it translate into actual policies? From what I've read about Swiss politics, their policies tend to lean to the right of the political spectrum.

I'm no expert on Swiss politics, so that's interesting to hear.  Too many moderates in the party, perhaps?

[Antonio the Sixth]

No idea. Guess I have to get more info. Swiss politics are so weird...

[SUSAN CRUSHBONE]

Let's all be honest with ourselves here -- the only reason BRTD made this poll is to get a favourable result for a "Christian" party.
The same way he polls opebo vs. any number of horrible people, or Jesus vs. NYJew.

Presumably, he wants the illusion that people agree with him on everything.

[ZuWo]

For those who think the Christian Social Party is right-wing - don't confuse it with the Christian Democratic People's Party, which is usually considered centrist and one of the largest and most powerful Swiss parties. The Christian Social Party on the other hand is undeniably left and very small and only plays a somewhat important role in two or three Swiss cantons.

[Antonio the Sixth]

For those who think the Christian Social Party is right-wing - don't confuse it with the Christian Democratic People's Party, which is usually considered centrist and one of the largest and most powerful Swiss parties. The Christian Social Party on the other hand is undeniably left and very small and only plays a somewhat important role in two or three Swiss cantons.

Oh damn... Yes, I confused it, sorry. What an idiot.

Still, I maintain that the CVP (the big one) is right-wing.

[Leftbehind]

^The CVP are right of centre.

Not ideal, but respectable (which, in the context of Swiss politics, makes them outstanding). FP.