Mideast Constitutional Convention

[Akno21]

Peter, does the "right of choice" make it impossible to legally outlaw abortion?

I would severely doubt it. Protecting what is at the least the potency of life can certainly be claimed to be a compelling interest for the state.

All right then.

[Peter]

"The right of individuals to make their own choices in life shall not be denied or abridged without just cause.  An example of "just causes" include (but are not limited to) said individual  causing bodily or financial harm to another individual against their will. Neither individual lifestyle choices nor honest practice of commerce are to be considered "just causes". "

Wording in that manner is somewhat obscure. This is once again open to interpretation because you specifically isolate lifestyle choices: Is living off welfare a lifestyle choice? I have no idea how insanely "honest" commerce practices would get interpretted, but "honest" would very quickly become the moral opinions of the Judge concerned I suspect.

Unless you codify every specific example possible (which obviously you could never do) giving examples in this type of instance often creates more problems than it solves.

Trying to create sensible language for this that tries to convey at least for the most part what we mean whilst not being specific will be difficult. I am open to suggestions, but anything that potentially codifies a communist and/or libertarian paradise based on the Judge isn't acceptable.

I am presently reasonably happy with this:

"The right of individuals to make their own choices in life shall not be denied or abridged without just cause."

In my own mind "Right of Choice" conveys exactly what Daniel expounds in a longer format. I'm not bothered either way, though if I had to make a choice I prefer compactness.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Al stated an objection to the Lt. Governorship provisions. Would he care to offer alternatives and more specifically his objections?

Elected post perhaps? It's not a major objection though.

[Peter]

Elected post perhaps? It's not a major objection though.

You mean run it as a separate race?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Elected post perhaps? It's not a major objection though.

You mean run it as a separate race?

Yep

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Nicked from the federal constitutional convention: "Persons in employment shall have the right to organize for the purpose of collective bargaining, with such exceptions as the Senate may provide for by Law on the grounds of vital national interest."

Obviously "Senate" needs to be edited out

[Peter]

That looks familiar..... Oh yes, I wrote it.

"Persons in employment shall have the right to organize for the purpose of collective bargaining, with such exceptions as the Law may provide on grounds of vital Regional interests."

Thats probably an acceptable format for our purposes. I am fine with it going in.

*Note to self: Find out how to make exempting coal mining legal* :-)

[KEmperor]

bumping for the assembled and dignified citizens of the Mideast

I dont see anyone assembling....and with regard to dignified I will refrain from comment.

[Peter]

Okay. I am done on everything but the Bill of Rights, which hopefully I should finish in the next couple of days when I have some spare time. The Bill of Rights will be contained in Article V.

Draft So Far for Mideast Constitution

All comments/thoughts welcome.

The ordering simply came out as I was writing it; I'll probably reorganise it to make Props and Initiatives as Article I at some point.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Okay. I am done on everything but the Bill of Rights, which hopefully I should finish in the next couple of days when I have some spare time. The Bill of Rights will be contained in Article V.

Draft So Far for Mideast Constitution

All comments/thoughts welcome.

The ordering simply came out as I was writing it; I'll probably reorganise it to make Props and Initiatives as Article I at some point.

Looks good

[Akno21]

Does their avatar or signature have to be correct at the time of the vote (impossible to check) or at 12:01 on Monday morning?

And should it be the third weekend in January, May, and September?

[Peter]

bump.

Here's a Bill of Rights I wrote up. As ever, comments welcome.

I plan to put this Constitution to a vote concurrent with the Presidential/Senate elections. I also plan to appoint a Lt Governor before then.

   1. No person shall be denied of Life, Liberty or property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of the Law.

   2. The right of the people to keep and bear firearms and low potency explosives shall not be infringed.

   3. No person shall be held in slavery or involuntary servitude except in punishment for a crime for which they have been duly convicted.

   4. The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be denied except in times of public rebellion or natural disaster, and then only in a manner consistent with Law.

   5. No branch of the Regional government shall conscript any person into the service of the Armed Forces except in times of War, public rebellion or natural disaster, and then only in a manner consistent with Law.

   6. No soldier shall be quartered on any property without the consent of the Lawful occupier except in time of War or in time of public rebellion so declared under the Judiciary Article.

   7. The Armed Forces shall not be used for Law enforcement or policing duties except in times of public rebellion or in the interests of public safety, and then only in a manner consistent with Law.

   8. No branch of the Regional government shall issue a Law or declaration respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech or expression, or of the press.

   9. No branch of government shall restrict Freedom of association, Nor the Right to peacefully assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances.

  10. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, communications and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

  11. The Right to trial by jury shall be preserved and such trial will be as open and swift as justice shall allow. No person shall be tried for the same offence twice, Nor shall any person be compelled to incriminate himself. The accused shall enjoy the right to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to compel witnesses in his defence and to have the Assistance of Counsel in his defence.

  12. Private property shall not be taken for public use, without just compensation.

  13. All persons shall have the Right to privacy in respect of their personal and family lives, property, effects and communications.

  14. No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the armed forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger.

  15. In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the Mideast Region, than according to the rules of the common law.

  16. Excessive bail shall not be required, Nor excessive fines imposed, Nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

  17. All persons under eighteen shall have the right to a publicly funded, well-balanced education.

  18. The right of individuals to make their own choices in life shall not be denied or abridged without just cause.

  19. Persons in employment shall have the right to organize for the purpose of collective bargaining, with such exceptions as the Law may provide on grounds of vital Regional interests.

  20. No person shall be denied any Right enumerated herein on basis of nationality, race, religion, gender, sexuality, age or political affiliation.

  21. No person shall be denied their Right to vote or candidacy on basis of nationality, race, religion, gender, sexuality, age or political affiliation.

  22. The enumeration of certain Rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage those retained by the people.

[Joe Republic]

Looks good to me, but for a few things.

Clause 2: do we really need this?  I know I'm opening up a huge can of worms here, but just because the Second Amendment of the RL Constitution says the same thing, do we really need to put it in this one?  I don't think we really need this, IMHO.

Clause 16: How much is 'excessive'?

[Peter]

Clause 2: do we really need this?  I know I'm opening up a huge can of worms here, but just because the Second Amendment of the RL Constitution says the same thing, do we really need to put it in this one?  I don't think we really need this, IMHO.

I wouldn't be opposed to cutting it back a bit, but I know the gun-tooting libertarians would come after me.

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Thats up to the Judges I suppose, but they generally get guided by the prevailing standards of decency both within the Region, the nation and similar nations in the international community.

[Joe Republic]

Are there any gun-toting libertarians in the Mideast?

[Peter]

I don't know: Philip is pretty crazy.

How does this sound as a possibility then:

"The Right to bear Arms of a nature reasonable for self defense shall not be infringed"

[Akno21]

The important thing that we can do is try to prevent long-lasting debate over what these rights actually are.

What is reasonable self-defense? We should define that.

[DanielX]

bump.

Here's a Bill of Rights I wrote up. As ever, comments welcome.

I plan to put this Constitution to a vote concurrent with the Presidential/Senate elections. I also plan to appoint a Lt Governor before then.

   1. No person shall be denied of Life, Liberty or property without due process of Law, Nor shall any person be denied the equal protection of the Law.

Good, good. You can throw in "Pursuit of happiness", too.

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Define "low potency explosive" does that mean fireworks are kosher or not?

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All good so far

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Might need to be a tad more specific - plus, 'communications' might be construed in such a way as to make looking for terrorists and such a bit more difficult.

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All good, although in modern times the minimum could be more than $20.

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Whoa there! At the very least you should add something to this clause about "they also have the right, if their parent or legal guardian so chooses, to pursue a private education."

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Okay. I'd change 'choices' to 'decisions', but that's me.

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Okay.

[Joe Republic]

How does this sound as a possibility then:

"The Right to bear Arms of a nature reasonable for self defense shall not be infringed"

I could live with that.

[Peter]

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Might need to be a tad more specific - plus, 'communications' might be construed in such a way as to make looking for terrorists and such a bit more difficult.

Actually I was far too over specific now that I look at it again because all of the last three entries are already covered under clause 10. Consider cluase 13 to now read:

"All persons shall have the Right to privacy in respect of their personal and family lives."

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Whoa there! At the very least you should add something to this clause about "they also have the right, if their parent or legal guardian so chooses, to pursue a private education."[/quote]

Everybody has the ability to waive their rights already, this doesn't compel anybody to use the public education system.

[Peter]

My next draft is now online

I plan to put this Constitution concurrent with the Presidential/Senate elections. I am willing to make last minute changes if any spelling/grammar errors are made known (though its already been through a spell check). I am still willing to make substantive changes if anybody can make a good argument or there seems to general approval.

There is also a more general Office of the Mideast Governor online as well. It still needs updating and most of the links are 404s; I'll do my best to complete over the next week or so.

[King]

Will the Mideast have a flag?



11 stripes represent the 10 states + DC and the hammer/sickle represents the political makeup of the region.

[Peter]

Whilst doubtless BRTD would like it, he fortunately lives in the Socialist Republic of Minnesota or whatever its called.

[Joe Republic]

Hey Peter, I had an idea.  Since StevenNick has been away for so long and the SoFA thread hasn't been updated either, perhaps you could put a list of registered Mideast voters on the Office of Mideast Governor website.  You could even link to it from the relevant part of the constitution.

Akno did a list of the voters during the guber election in a graphic - you probably saw it.  I don't think too many people have registered in the Mideast since then.  Went that way (IL) and Proud Liberal (VA) spring to mind, but there could be others.

[Peter]

I actually have been maintaining a list of registrants since StevenNick's going on holiday:

Mideast

9iron*   R   MI
Acsenray   D   OH
Al   FL   WV
Akno21   D   MD
AuH20*   R   VA
Ben   UP   VA
DanielX   O   MD (now R, moved to WY)
DemRepDan   O   IL
I-Spy   I   MD
Kodratos   FL   IL
KucinichForPrez   O   MI
Liberty   I   VA
MasterJedi   R   WI
MHS2002   R   VA (now UP)
Michael Z   UL   DC
NickG   UL   MD
Nym90   D   MI
Peter Bell   I   IN
Philip   O   VA
sanstrom54014   D   WI
Rococo4*   R   OH
Ronald Reagan   R   OH  (now Chief of Staff Mike Naso)
Texasgurl   D   WI  (moved to OK)

Since Jan 5th:

Beet   UP   MD
Opebo  D  MO
nickshepDEM   D  MD
elcorazon   D  IL
Joe Republic   I  OH
BobOMac2k2   D  IL
skybridge   D  MI
Went That Way   FL  IL