Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 25, 2014, 01:18:46 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Atlas Hardware Upgrade complete October 13, 2013.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Discussion
| |-+  Religion & Philosophy (Moderator: Gustaf)
| | |-+  Historian Says Piece of Papyrus Refers to Jesus' Wife
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: Historian Says Piece of Papyrus Refers to Jesus' Wife  (Read 721 times)
Warner for Senate '14
benconstine
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 30640
United States


View Profile
« on: September 18, 2012, 01:39:56 pm »
Ignore

Quote
CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — A historian of early Christianity at Harvard Divinity School has identified a scrap of papyrus that she says was written in Coptic in the fourth century and contains a phrase never seen in any piece of Scripture: “Jesus said to them, ‘My wife …'”

Professor Karen L. King, in her office at The Harvard Divinity School, held a fragment of papyrus that she says was written in Coptic in the fourth century and contains a reference to Jesus' wife.

The faded papyrus fragment is smaller than a business card, with eight lines on one side, in black ink legible under a magnifying glass. Just below the line about Jesus having a wife, the papyrus includes a second provocative clause that purportedly says, “she will be able to be my disciple.”

The finding is being made public in Rome on Tuesday at an international meeting of Coptic scholars by the historian Karen L. King, who has published several books about new Gospel discoveries and is the first woman to hold the nation’s oldest endowed chair, the Hollis professor of divinity.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/us/historian-says-piece-of-papyrus-refers-to-jesus-wife.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp
Logged

Obama High's debate team:

"Now let me be clear...I...I...um...uh...now let me be clear.  I strongly condemn the affirmative in the strongest possible terms, and I am closely monitoring their arguments.  Let me be clear on this."
afleitch
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21981


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -8.17

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2012, 02:05:03 pm »
Ignore

Not unexpected. Who Jesus was (and wasn't) was still being ironed out.
Logged
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58778
India


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2012, 02:17:39 pm »
Ignore

The Bible calls him a "Rabbi" umpteen times, thus stating unequivocally that he was married. It also refers to Peter's mother-in-law in one throwaway sentence but not to any wives of the disciples'.
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
asexual trans victimologist
Nathan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12656


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2012, 02:18:41 pm »
Ignore

Fourth-century Coptic? Okay. Wake me up if they find Q and it's in there or something.
Logged

A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
True Federalist
Ernest
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28472
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2012, 12:22:57 am »
Ignore

The Bible calls him a "Rabbi" umpteen times, thus stating unequivocally that he was married.

Not really.  The Aramaic רבי refers to not just the Jewish religious office but also "master" in general.

In any case, even assuming the transcription and translation are correct, this lone papyrus doesn't really prove anything about whether he was actually married.
Logged

My ballot:
Ervin(I) Gov.
Sellers(D) Lt. Gov.
Hammond(R) Sec. of State
Diggs(D) Att. Gen.
Herbert(D) Comptroller Gen.
Spearman(R) Supt. of Education
DeFelice(American) Commissioner of Agriculture
Hutto(D/Working Families) US Sen (full)
Scott(R) US Sen (special)
Geddings(Labor) US House SC-2
Quinn(R) SC House District 69
TBD: Lex 1 School Board
Yes: Am. 1 (allow charity raffles)
No: Am. 2 (end election of the Adj. General)
No: Local Sales Tax
Yes: Temp Beer/Wine Permits
afleitch
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21981


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -8.17

View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2012, 06:32:14 am »
Ignore

In any case, even assuming the transcription and translation are correct, this lone papyrus doesn't really prove anything about whether he was actually married.

Nor does the NT prove that he wasn't. That's the problem I guess with any curiousities that emerge from history to shine a light on an historical religious figure. If it didn't fit when his life works were being collected then it won't fit now regardless of whether it is unknowably factually correct or not.
Logged
Zioneer
PioneerProgress
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3857
United States


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2012, 10:13:54 am »
Ignore

Okay, cool. Doesn't affect my religious beliefs one way or another, so just a cool historical tidbit, whether real or fake.
Logged
IDS Judicial Overlord PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22510
United States


Political Matrix
E: 7.35, S: -4.35

View Profile
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2012, 12:14:40 am »
Ignore

     It's not as if the metaphorical notion of a "bride of Jesus" is particularly unprecedented anyway. I could foresee the Church treating this as scriptural basis for the nunnery. Given that this little bit comes with no real context, there's really nothing wrong with such a reading.
Logged

shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11702
Russian Federation


View Profile WWW
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 12:32:32 am »
Ignore

     It's not as if the metaphorical notion of a "bride of Jesus" is particularly unprecedented anyway. I could foresee the Church treating this as scriptural basis for the nunnery. Given that this little bit comes with no real context, there's really nothing wrong with such a reading.
Good point - The Book of Revelations speaks of the Church as the bride of Christ (though I doubt the sect that produced this papyrus held to the NT canon as anything like we know it).
Logged

Spanish Moss
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 401
United States


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2012, 07:02:05 am »
Ignore

There are non-canonical gospels that indicate this, the theory that Jesus may have been married (particularly, to Mary Magdalene) is nothing new.
Logged
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58778
India


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2012, 09:29:13 am »
Ignore

There are non-canonical gospels that indicate this, the theory that Jesus may have been married (particularly, to Mary Magdalene) is nothing new.
Luther believed that.
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
asexual trans victimologist
Nathan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12656


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2012, 10:22:21 am »
Ignore

There are non-canonical gospels that indicate this, the theory that Jesus may have been married (particularly, to Mary Magdalene) is nothing new.
Luther believed that.

Cite?

Anyway, I personally think that this sort of frenzy over the idea that Jesus was married or involved in some kind of sexual relationship is frankly ridiculous and also a little insulting to Mary Magdalene and her position as Apostle to the Apostles, but whatever.
Logged

A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
afleitch
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21981


Political Matrix
E: 2.45, S: -8.17

View Profile
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2012, 10:38:40 am »
Ignore


Cite?

Anyway, I personally think that this sort of frenzy over the idea that Jesus was married or involved in some kind of sexual relationship is frankly ridiculous and also a little insulting to Mary Magdalene and her position as Apostle to the Apostles, but whatever.

I would think, given that he was a man in his early 30's when he died it would be ridicuous not to have had a sexual relationship. We will of course never know because all if not most evidence that contradicts what the early Church decided was canonical is either destroyed or has been supressed. It's why there can never be a genuine discussion about the place of Jesus of Nazareth in history because we are limited to what we are able to scrutinise. It's a bit like not being able to revisit a biography of Mark Twain now that we have access to his memoirs. There's nothing we can do about it now of course, but if new pieces come to light can't we be honest about their implications?
Logged
asexual trans victimologist
Nathan
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12656


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2012, 10:43:39 am »
Ignore

I would think, given that he was a man in his early 30's when he died it would be ridicuous not to have had a sexual relationship.

I don't understand this logic. Or, I do, but I don't understand why you think it's universal in its application.

Quote
We will of course never know because all if not most evidence that contradicts what the early Church decided was canonical is either destroyed or has been supressed. It's why there can never be a genuine discussion about the place of Jesus of Nazareth in history because we are limited to what we are able to scrutinise. It's a bit like not being able to revisit a biography of Mark Twain now that we have access to his memoirs. There's nothing we can do about it now of course, but if new pieces come to light can't we be honest about their implications?

Of course, but it seems like this one particular issue is one that people spend far more time thinking about and often grasping at straws over than the actual significance of attempting to score this kind of inane point merits.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 11:05:36 am by Nathan »Logged

A shameless agrarian collectivist with no respect for private property or individual rights.

His idea of freedom is - it is a bad thing and should be stopped at all costs.

Nathan-land.  As much fun as watching paint dry... literally.
only back for the worldcup
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58778
India


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2012, 11:32:23 am »
Ignore

There are non-canonical gospels that indicate this, the theory that Jesus may have been married (particularly, to Mary Magdalene) is nothing new.
Luther believed that.

Cite?
Apparently it's just one of those things that float around and become true by being repeated often.
What Luther actually wrote was quoted by a fawning contemporary as having said is that they had an adulterous relationship.
Which probably did not mean what it seems to mean, though we cannot be entirely sure.
Logged

"The secret to having a rewarding work-life balance is to have no life. Then it's easy to keep things balanced by doing no work." Wally



"Our party do not have any ideology... Our main aim is to grab power ... Every one is doing so but I say it openly." Keshav Dev Maurya
Oldiesfreak1854
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8808
United States


View Profile WWW
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2012, 12:23:08 pm »
Ignore

Who cares?  Does it really matter whether or not Jesus was married?
Logged

Quote from: Dwight D. Eisenhower
There is nothing wrong with America that the faith, love of freedom, intelligence, and energy of her citizens cannot cure.
When I voted for the first time a few weeks ago, I announced "damnit, I voted for Pat Buchanan!" Nobody got it.
DC Al Fine
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7246
Canada


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2012, 03:15:55 pm »
Ignore

Who cares?  Does it really matter whether or not Jesus was married?

Not really. If he had children on the other hand, it would.
Logged

Economic: 3.1
Social: 2.78

Quote from: Don Colacho
The Gospels and the Communist Manifesto are on the wane; the world’s future lies in the power of Coca-Cola and pornography.
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines