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Author Topic: Looking for an honest assessment here  (Read 3528 times)
AverroŽs Nix
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« Reply #50 on: September 22, 2012, 10:07:33 pm »
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I'd imagine nicer houses

Yes, I suppose that I've chosen to showcase some of Simfanland's lower-quality housing stock. But it's really not that bad. Cramped, yes, but clean, safe, and requiring relatively little maintenance. I imagine that most people on the lower half of the social ladder would live in neighborhoods like this one.

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What's your reasoning behind text heavy papers?

Well, surely you'd rather read The New York Times than USA Today. A text-heavy paper can take a more serious, detail-oriented, emotionless tone (even if all coverage is tacitly pro-Simfanland). I imagine that you might even mandate that every household subscribe to at least one paper, if you don't have a state-sponsored rag that's universally distributed free of charge.

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Also, thanks for your advice, it worked like a charm.

I'm pleased to hear that. It's hard to beat wine, cheese, and good company.
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Simfan34
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« Reply #51 on: September 22, 2012, 10:11:28 pm »
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The wine and cheese is today, I'm speaking of something else entirely.

Yes, there would be good housing for all. Less suburbs. And a free American Herald, perhaps.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 10:18:20 pm by His Most Serene Excellency Simfan34 »Logged

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« Reply #52 on: September 22, 2012, 10:52:08 pm »
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Also, could someone tell me more about Taisho Japan, my knowledge is basically limited to the zaibatsu, and while this picture on wiki is very nice and we'll likely be seeing stuff like this again in the "Great Reform" US,



I'm pretty sure that's from the Meiji era, and while Josiah Conder was quite a good architect I doubt even I can bring him back from the dead, so.... could some one inform me as to certain elements I might consider implementing?

Taisho Japan was characterized by a relatively liberal but sickly (and, towards the end, also possibly insane) Emperor and a concurrent shifting of power away from the Imperial Court towards the Diet and the parties. It was more democratic than either the Meiji or the early Showa, and the political discourse was arguably more open than it's been even since the war. I'm not sure you'd appreciate a lot of this, but the culture that resulted was in general highly interested in education and publishing, political discussion, and railways. Lots of railways. There was actually a serious and partially successful movement afoot to shift almost all of the commercial infrastructure of Japan to center around railway terminals. In terms of political structure, there was unrest of a kind I'm sure you wouldn't want (lots of large but peaceful and orderly student protests and the like) but the entrenched power players were a Diet roughly based upon the British Parliament of the time (or the old Prussian legislature, hence the name), where among other things both houses had at least some plutocratic trappings. In general I think you would like the material culture and literature, music, et cetera of the Taisho period a lot (as do I): Popular writers were people like Akutagawa Ryuunosuke, Tanizaki Jun'ichirou, Yoshiya Nobuko, Yosano Akiko and Yosano Tekkan, et cetera, and serialized literature was very widespread; musical theatre and enka were popular types of music and there was still a fairly broad-based interest in kabuki as far as I understand it; the civilizational costume design, if you will, was quite interesting and in many cases flat-out gorgeous:







(And, since the Taisho era happened in rural areas too)





(Sorry I couldn't find bigger or clearer images)
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« Reply #53 on: September 22, 2012, 11:48:39 pm »
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honesty time: this gimmick isn't particularly funny or interesting.
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That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
Simfan34
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« Reply #54 on: September 23, 2012, 01:09:03 am »
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honesty time: this gimmick isn't particularly funny or interesting.
Nor is yours.
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koenkai
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« Reply #55 on: September 23, 2012, 03:28:10 am »
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Why not? If you're one to "do business", you probably get to vote, if not hold office. Gas is probably cheaper, the economy better, the people more intelligent, the environment cleaner, the culture more refined, the streets safer.

Quality education, employment laws, and estate taxes.

Whoops. I missed that. Estate taxes? Yeah, I'm moving to Canada. Where my lifelong tax burden will probably be lower.


It probably wouldn't, but we have to mitigate the "de-facto nobility" factor somehow.

Wow, the message was actually too long! Part two below, I guess.

That was pretty impressive. I was quite pleasantly surprised.

Anyways, there are certain things with that. I don't really drive. I don't really concern myself with crime (I'm not going to stop going outside because I have a .0002% chance of being murdered instead of a .0001% chance). I don't really have any problem with pollution. In fact, I actually like much of the weather in industrial Mainland China. More smog makes it thankfully harder to tan. And almost everything I enjoy is fairly low-brow. So a refined culture holds little to no appeal. So those aren't strong pull factors. And then there are huge push factors. Like an estate tax. If US estate tax rates could be enforced on certain exempt trusts, I would probably end up paying more in estate taxes than all other taxes combined. I'd take a 50% income tax/33% sales tax before a 60% estate tax.

Taisho Japan was characterized by a relatively liberal but sickly (and, towards the end, also possibly insane) Emperor and a concurrent shifting of power away from the Imperial Court towards the Diet and the parties. It was more democratic than either the Meiji or the early Showa, and the political discourse was arguably more open than it's been even since the war. I'm not sure you'd appreciate a lot of this, but the culture that resulted was in general highly interested in education and publishing, political discussion, and railways. Lots of railways. There was actually a serious and partially successful movement afoot to shift almost all of the commercial infrastructure of Japan to center around railway terminals. In terms of political structure, there was unrest of a kind I'm sure you wouldn't want (lots of large but peaceful and orderly student protests and the like) but the entrenched power players were a Diet roughly based upon the British Parliament of the time (or the old Prussian legislature, hence the name), where among other things both houses had at least some plutocratic trappings. In general I think you would like the material culture and literature, music, et cetera of the Taisho period a lot (as do I): Popular writers were people like Akutagawa Ryuunosuke, Tanizaki Jun'ichirou, Yoshiya Nobuko, Yosano Akiko and Yosano Tekkan, et cetera, and serialized literature was very widespread; musical theatre and enka were popular types of music and there was still a fairly broad-based interest in kabuki as far as I understand it; the civilizational costume design, if you will, was quite interesting and in many cases flat-out gorgeous:

I don't know that much about Taisho culture. I was forced to read some Akutagawa and Tanizaki (the latter for less than pure motives) in my earlier days, but I was once KING OF SABORI, so I kind of skipped out on that whole reading great works thing. So I've more focused on the government/economy here.

The Taisho period was very unique for being a period where civilian party politicians held the politicians. As we know, for most of the Meiji period, former retainers from the Satsuma/Choshu domains dominated government. And of course, lol @ at the 30's.

The 1920's was also the hey-day for what many refer as the "old Zaibatsu". The large industrial conglomerates that came to prominence during the early Meiji period (like Mitsui and Mitsubishi), usually contrasted with the "new Zaibatsu" (the ones that came to prominence during/through the war). The "old zaibatsu" did quite poorly during the Second World War, with both the Manchukuo project, the war in China, and then war mobilization being a total disaster. And then of course, as know, the meddling SCAP tried to crush the old zaibatsu (for two years). So it was all downhill after the 20's.

The 1920's was also a period of political liberalization and perceived "elitism". After the March 1st disaster, the metropolitan government moved to liberalize colonial rule in Korea. Foreign policy in regards to Chinese affairs became much more dovish after the May Fourth disaster, though the sh**tstorm that was China made it so that the Japanese had no clue who to actually talk to, and they ended up making amends primarily with Post-Qing Northern factions in China that would ultimately be marginalized (by the eventually dominant and now anti-Japanese KMT in the South). And of course, Japan actually moved towards decreased military spending, signing the famed Washington Naval Treaty. Limited labor rights were granted (though it was a cautious process in order to stall socialism). The 20's were also home to huge huge tenant disputes and violence, but the national parties actually tended to take the side of tenants. Of course, there was also the Peace Preservation Law, which uh, had all kinds of unexpected implications, but...meh, it was basically a political cudgel to be used against anarchists/communists, which posed an existential threat to the liberal consensus.

The perceived "elitism" comes from the fact that Japan had a fairly robust two-party system, but they weren't very ideologically different. Both modernistic, liberal, pro-big business parties. Kind of like all major Japanese political parties ever. Japan entered self-sustaining industrial growth circa 1905 (after the Russo-Japanese war) and this was a tendency that only accelerated by the First World War. But by the 20's, economic growth had largely slowed due to a variety of reasons, mostly structural. So Japan actually was the first major economy to climb out of the Great Depression, but 10 years of subpar economic performance sparked large statist/socialistic/nationalistic movements, united in their hatred of the zaibatsu and the civilian politicians, that simmered underneath the surface of the 20's. The socialists/communists and the militarists/rightist radicals actually found a lot of common ground in their hatred of the liberal consensus of the 20's, as shown by the tenkou (I mean hell, the Manchukuo Civil Service was actually stacked with socialist intellectuals).

I note that I'm using Taisho and 20's interchangeably, even though they are different. Which I actually shouldn't be. But the Great Depression is a much better dividing line than the death of Taisho, since the former led to the breakdown of the liberal consensus that defined the 20's, while the latter just led to dates looking different.

Anyways, from the perspective of government, I love the 1920's in Japan because if there's any party in world history that approximated as many of my views as possible, it would probably have been the Kenseikai (and eventually Minseito), which in the Diet was largely aligned with the left side of the Taisho liberal consensus.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 03:33:46 am by 後援会 »Logged

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Simfan34
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« Reply #56 on: September 23, 2012, 01:03:58 pm »
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Arrest members on illegal firearm possession, offer to lessen penalties for those who willingly turn themselves in, and then use all necessary force to supress your movement. No one will be sentenced to death because I oppose execution, but if the NSA is excessively harsh in handling and you expire in captivity, or if you tragically stumble out of a plane whilst in transit, what am I to do?

Do I get a PBS special?

Are you insane? Of course not! The only way Americans will ever know of unrest besides >50 people protests outside Federal Buildings is if they see it with their own eyes.

Disappointing. I hoped I'd get a dramatization along "the enemy of our reform and how his terrorism was defeated by our glorious government" lines.

More broad question: the larger militia movement is, ahem, rather well-armed and doesn't take kindly to being arrested. What do you do with this sizable segment of the population?
http://constitution.org/abus/le/miac-strategic-report.pdf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCBHtf4hYWQ
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« Reply #57 on: September 23, 2012, 02:11:15 pm »
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Why not? If you're one to "do business", you probably get to vote, if not hold office. Gas is probably cheaper, the economy better, the people more intelligent, the environment cleaner, the culture more refined, the streets safer.

Quality education, employment laws, and estate taxes.

Whoops. I missed that. Estate taxes? Yeah, I'm moving to Canada. Where my lifelong tax burden will probably be lower.


It probably wouldn't, but we have to mitigate the "de-facto nobility" factor somehow.

Wow, the message was actually too long! Part two below, I guess.

That was pretty impressive. I was quite pleasantly surprised.

Anyways, there are certain things with that. I don't really drive. I don't really concern myself with crime (I'm not going to stop going outside because I have a .0002% chance of being murdered instead of a .0001% chance). I don't really have any problem with pollution. In fact, I actually like much of the weather in industrial Mainland China. More smog makes it thankfully harder to tan. And almost everything I enjoy is fairly low-brow. So a refined culture holds little to no appeal. So those aren't strong pull factors. And then there are huge push factors. Like an estate tax. If US estate tax rates could be enforced on certain exempt trusts, I would probably end up paying more in estate taxes than all other taxes combined. I'd take a 50% income tax/33% sales tax before a 60% estate tax.\
\

Well, I was thinking 20% estate tax. And lots of public transportation as should be evident. But no one's making you stay here. Especially it requires smog.
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« Reply #58 on: September 23, 2012, 02:20:58 pm »
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However after a while I would crack down significantly and brutally, on drinking and drug use. We may just reinstate prohibition for the heck of making the point.

What point is that?  That you can abuse people at whim?
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« Reply #59 on: September 23, 2012, 04:16:15 pm »
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Well, I was thinking 20% estate tax. And lots of public transportation as should be evident. But no one's making you stay here. Especially it requires smog.

20% is still unacceptably high to a point where living in Canada would be a financially preferable position. Not saying that I desire smog and pollution, but just pointing out all of those things aren't "pull factors" that would outweigh the "push factors". Plus, if you can't even get a Singapore fan to stay, who do you expect to stay?
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« Reply #60 on: September 23, 2012, 06:44:45 pm »
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Presidency Council of the United States
Meeting Minutes

June 26, 2028
Present:   All members of the Presidency Council
Next meeting:   June 27, 10:00, Council Hall, Meridian Palace


I.   Announcements
List all announcements made at the meeting. For example, new members, change of event, etc.

II.   Discussion
HMSE restated opposition and concerns over Honoree efforts to establish particular legislative chamber; namely: that further entrenchment would deepen the rift between titled and untitled members of the electoral class, counteract ongoing efforts to transition to a merit-based leadership, and heighten common citizensí sense of disenfranchisement, which has been kept to a minimum. HMSE called for censorship and restriction of news of those efforts, which was noted to be difficult due to Honoree control of several private media outlets. Regret was expressed at establishment of Honoree System. NW Comm. J. Atkinson suggested a moratorium on new Perpetual Honors in favor of more life honors and awarding of orders, which was received by favor by HMSE and several other members of the council.

Upon HMSEís request for an appraisal of the potential threat posed by the personal forces of various Honorees and other Electors at the council meeting on the 20th, Intel Dir. J. Inglis submitted the report, of 212 pages, to the Council and read a summary, attached in Appendix XII.  In said summary Dir. Inglis stated that personal forces comprised a significant military force capable of sustained resistance against central authority, and warned that if those holding forces acted in concert with sympathetic members of the armed forces, the resulting insurrection would pose an ďexistential threatĒ to the Government. Report suggested that regulations be tightened and oversight considerably increased over said forces, gradually easing way to outright prohibition, which HMSE agreed with in principle but would make formal decision after reading the report in full, stating that that decision would be made by July 2nd.  


III.   Roundtable

Def. Dir. Ė U.S.S. John Jay (CVN-82) to be launched on Dec. 12, 2012. All projects otherwise to proceed as hitherto specified. Negotiations with Gov. of Canada on CDP proceeding with ďall due hasteĒ and without error or counteraction.

Well, I was thinking 20% estate tax. And lots of public transportation as should be evident. But no one's making you stay here. Especially it requires smog.

20% is still unacceptably high to a point where living in Canada would be a financially preferable position. Not saying that I desire smog and pollution, but just pointing out all of those things aren't "pull factors" that would outweigh the "push factors". Plus, if you can't even get a Singapore fan to stay, who do you expect to stay?

Well what do you recommend? I'm a pragmatist.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 09:49:26 pm by His Most Serene Excellency Simfan34 »Logged

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koenkai
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« Reply #61 on: September 23, 2012, 09:06:04 pm »
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Well, I'd vastly prefer either no estate tax (Canada, Singapore, etc.), or generous exemptions for certain types of trusts (see USA).

Something about this just all leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Like a lot of social engineering, etc. I'm always suspicious of people who try to tweak social hierarchies towards an "ideal".

And I find all of the culture thing pretty worrying. State support towards specific cultural traditions (even the ones thought to be "high-brow") always seem fairly suspicious and exclusive to me. Reminds me more of the social engineering aspect.

I think there's a lot less "social engineering" in places like Singapore than people think. Because the culture is simply very different. Things like the death penalty for drug possession and corporal punishment are simply popular. Singapore isn't really that outside of the East Asian norm. It's just more efficient by virtue of being somewhat less democratic and capable of rejecting culturally popular policies that would otherwise be accepted (like xenophobia).

All of this whining about social engineering probably illustrates why a copycat thread from me would probably be pretty boring...
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AverroŽs Nix
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« Reply #62 on: September 23, 2012, 09:29:07 pm »
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All of this whining about social engineering probably illustrates why a copycat thread from me would probably be pretty boring...

Obvious satirical exceptions aside, Burkean conservatives aren't exactly known for their wacky utopias,
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« Reply #63 on: September 23, 2012, 09:41:46 pm »
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Well, I'd vastly prefer either no estate tax (Canada, Singapore, etc.), or generous exemptions for certain types of trusts (see USA).

Something about this just all leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Like a lot of social engineering, etc. I'm always suspicious of people who try to tweak social hierarchies towards an "ideal".

And I find all of the culture thing pretty worrying. State support towards specific cultural traditions (even the ones thought to be "high-brow") always seem fairly suspicious and exclusive to me. Reminds me more of the social engineering aspect.

I think there's a lot less "social engineering" in places like Singapore than people think. Because the culture is simply very different. Things like the death penalty for drug possession and corporal punishment are simply popular. Singapore isn't really that outside of the East Asian norm. It's just more efficient by virtue of being somewhat less democratic and capable of rejecting culturally popular policies that would otherwise be accepted (like xenophobia).

All of this whining about social engineering probably illustrates why a copycat thread from me would probably be pretty boring...

koenkai, you're probably the average elector, and for that reason efforts to establish an estate tax would likely be defeated and we'd end up with something more like Canada.

But I'm sorry that you find a good deal wrong with the whole aspect of social engineering, because that's basically what this is all about. If America is not like Singapore, then America must be made more like Singapore. And cultural support? That's non-negotiable. That's what I'm all about- a refined culture. But it won't be shoved down your throat, see, especially as an elector.

But you don't take as much as a problem with the whole "mass disenfranchisement" thing. That's a start.

AverroŽs Nix, I'm making you a Presidential Advisor. What do you recommend with the whole Honoree situation?
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« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2012, 10:59:54 pm »
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koenkai, you're probably the average elector, and for that reason efforts to establish an estate tax would likely be defeated and we'd end up with something more like Canada.

But I'm sorry that you find a good deal wrong with the whole aspect of social engineering, because that's basically what this is all about. If America is not like Singapore, then America must be made more like Singapore. And cultural support? That's non-negotiable. That's what I'm all about- a refined culture. But it won't be shoved down your throat, see, especially as an elector.

But you don't take as much as a problem with the whole "mass disenfranchisement" thing. That's a start.

Well, I might actually think I might have a small problem with the mass disenfranchisement thing. The main problem with the idea of me being the "average elector" is that I could very well not be an elector. Because if I'm reading correctly, your definition of an "elector" is someone within the top 10% of income. Or around $140k a year. It is fairly plausible that I do not exceed that.

Well, I appreciate the sentiment. Because I like Singapore. But the fact of the matter is that Singapore is largely culturally Chinese (of the Southern variant). America is not. Even Chinese-Americans by and large are not. It's not the goal I despise, but the plausibility. I do not believe a generation of government can uproot a millennium of culture and replace it with another millennium. Singapore has Asian Values. America has San Francisco values. It doesn't seem realistic to me.
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« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2012, 11:23:32 pm »
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Well, that's unfortunate. But give Simfanland a chance.
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« Reply #66 on: September 24, 2012, 12:24:46 am »
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AverroŽs Nix, I'm making you a Presidential Advisor. What do you recommend with the whole Honoree situation?

Send the leaders of the more intransigent factions abroad on diplomatic missions while we work to eliminate any direct lines of contact between them and the military. Create an array of largely ceremonial positions into which we'll quietly direct anyone with real power who remains defiant. We should also grant hundreds - if not thousands - of new titles to dilute the influence of the established families.
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« Reply #67 on: September 24, 2012, 12:53:18 am »
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Can I be one of the token leftists early on who eventually becomes a dissident who's tolerated due to past competent service? Can I can I?
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« Reply #68 on: September 24, 2012, 01:38:05 am »
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So basically this is the July Monarchy. Somehow I'm not certain that would be ideal.

Have you seen Kings? Of course you haven't; nobody saw it. It's a fascinating show, though. You might like it.
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The idea of parodying the preceding Atlasian's postings is laughable, of course, but not for reasons one might expect.
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« Reply #69 on: September 24, 2012, 07:54:48 am »
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Kings? I loved that show! It's a shame it was cancelled like that. It's also a shame the coronation was so... skimpy.
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« Reply #70 on: September 24, 2012, 12:29:46 pm »
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AverroŽs Nix, I'm making you a Presidential Advisor. What do you recommend with the whole Honoree situation?

Send the leaders of the more intransigent factions abroad on diplomatic missions while we work to eliminate any direct lines of contact between them and the military. Create an array of largely ceremonial positions into which we'll quietly direct anyone with real power who remains defiant. We should also grant hundreds - if not thousands - of new titles to dilute the influence of the established families.

As of today, 668 people have received Perpetual Honors of Distinction. This includes 362 Esquires, 162 Strategoi, 72 [Earl Equivalents], 43 Marquesses, and 29 Regents. I am ready to appoint up to 50 Esquires, 50 Strategoi, 25 [Earl Equivalents], 15 Marquesses, and 10 Regents.

We, Simfan34....


these new creations bring the number of Regents to 39, including those already appointed:

(okay guys, I need ideas for people... both new and old- my search for "occupy wall street opponents" and "anti-democratic wealthy" isn't particularly fruitful)

Can I be one of the token leftists early on who eventually becomes a dissident who's tolerated due to past competent service? Can I can I?

Sure. You can write mildly critical op-eds in the New York Times and the American Herald from time to time.
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« Reply #71 on: September 24, 2012, 10:49:50 pm »
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Can I be one of the token leftists early on who eventually becomes a dissident who's tolerated due to past competent service? Can I can I?

Does this mean that I get to help lead the mainstream leftist loyal opposition? Assuming that I'm somehow eligible to vote due to some loophole.
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« Reply #72 on: September 24, 2012, 11:04:27 pm »
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But you're not leftist. If you're a member of the governing committees, then yes, you could.

Well, the definition of left and right changes in every country. It's all relative. In Simfandia, I could imagine myself quite easily a member of what passes for the mainstream, non-socialist left.
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« Reply #73 on: September 24, 2012, 11:10:28 pm »
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But you're not leftist. If you're a member of the governing committees, then yes, you could.

Well, the definition of left and right changes in every country. It's all relative. In Simfandia, I could imagine myself quite easily a member of what passes for the mainstream, non-socialist left.

So you are a member of Congress, of the National Union (whether you like it or not), and somewhat critical of government policies. You might expect a blistering op-ed or two, but we need loyal opposition.
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« Reply #74 on: September 25, 2012, 12:29:28 am »
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NATIONAL SERVICE PROGRAM

The National Service Program, established in 2015, requires that all Americans between the ages of 18 and 25 dedicate at least one year to the service of their nation. A minimum of two months of military training are required for all eligible males, and basic firearm instruction is required of women; women may opt to receive full military training, and both upon completing their training period may choose to enlist in the armed forces branch of their choice, enroll in a selective officers' training program, or end their military involvement altogether. Conscientious objectors may receive waivers exempting themselves from training.

National Servicemen and Servicewomen may choose from a wide range of programs, not limited to the Preforming Arts Service Initiative (PASI), which brings talented Servicemen and Servicewomen into the concert halls, opera houses, and theaters of American towns and cities, to help both broaden their experience and help bring high culture into everyday life for millions of Americans. In 2026, over 760,000 young Americans participated in PASI, working with 2,346 companies and orchestrae to preform for over 35 million Americans of all kinds, from small-town theaters to vaunted institutions like the Metropolitan Opera and the Boston Philharmonic.

Others may choose to put their creative skills to the nation's use in the Public Art Project (PAP), bringing the works of America's most promising young artists into to the public sphere, from our newest rural public buildings to even the Headquarters of the National Union. In 2026 550,000 servicemen and servicewomen joint the PAP, providing needed beautification to our public works. Additionally, PAP members helped make informational posters*, exhibition displays, informational diagrams, and technical schematics, many of which are used by our leading research institutions and displayed in prominent places in the public alike.

Many decide to the Join the Public Works Corps (PWC), which had 1.26 million members in 2026. The PWC is involved in carrying out public infrastructure projects, throughout the phases of planning, organization, and execution. Some of our greatest public works of recent years, such as the world's longest bridge, the 25-mile Nelson A. Rockefeller Bridge connecting Long Island to Rhode Island, the Midwest High Speed Rail Network, the Juan Carrasco Tunnel between Washington state and Vancouver Island, Canada,, the Rampart Dam in Alaska, the National Fiberoptic Program, and the Trans-Texas Corridor, have been completed with significant PWC involvement. The PWC is a crucial factor in the rapid rise of the standards of living Americans enjoy today.

Many other programs exist, some of which were extant before the Great Reform (but which of course have seen significant membership increases), such as the National Civilian Community Corps (NCCC), which sends young Americans out into various communities for service projects, the Conservation Service Organization (CSO), which partners servicemen and servicewomen with federal environmental protection organizations for service, the Peace Corps, which sends young Americans abroad to help further development and education in underdeveloped nations, and Society for Public Political Education (SPPE), a division of the Information Directorate that helps inform Americans of the continuing benefits of the Great Reform, its basis in republican history, and the citizen's place in the new society*. Servicemen and servicewomen may also choose to serve with a number of established private service groups, such as the American Red Cross, Habitat for Humanity, Teach for America, and so forth.

*read=propaganda
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