What president violated the Constitution the most?

[A18]

FDR, hands down. No one even comes close.

[PBrunsel]

Abraham Lincoln did, but he said that his restrictions on free speech was much like the man who had swallowed a poison. He needed a strong and bad tasting tonic so he could vomit the poison out, but just because it would save him didn't give him a taste for it.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

George W. Bush

[A18]

George W. Bush

That's blatantly idiotic. What did Bush sign that even compares to FDR's socialist programs?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Partiot Act
McCain-Feingold

[A18]

Partiot Act
McCain-Feingold

FDR censored the media and threw Japanese Americans into internment camps.

[George W. Bush]

Yea, Philip is right it was FDR.

[Redefeatbush04]

William Henry Harrison ;-)

No in all seriousness probablly Lincoln, though I greatly respect the man.

[Beet]

Must admit it has to be FDR in his 12 years' power, who presided over the greatest lasting changes in the body of common law.

[dazzleman]

FDR
Lincoln
LBJ

[??????????]

FDR
Lincoln
LBJ

yep

[dazzleman]

FDR pioneered the use of the IRS to harass political opponents.  He used the IRS against those, such as Huey Long, whom he considered political threats.

I am not a legalist, and I think that sometimes the letter of the law has to be sacrificed for the spirit.  There are times when following the letter of the law endangers the very things the law is meant to protect.  The difference between a good and an unscrupulous leader is whether he/she violates the letter of the law for his/her own political interests, or for the good of the country.

In Lincoln's case, I believe his violations of the constitution were generally for the good of the country. 

In FDR's case, it was mixed.  In depression conditions, radicals like Huey Long who offered distorted, simple-minded solutions that would have led to disaster, were a genuine threat.  It was necessary sometimes to use extra-legal means to keep this threat in check.  As war approached, and the country was reluctant to face up to it, it was necessary for the good of the country to deceive the people and the Congress to some degree until they woke up to the danger.

LBJ has the weakest case for his violations of the constitution.  More than the others, he was simply power-mad, and excessively concerned with his own political position.  Nixon was like that to some degree, but contrary to popular perception, did not go as far in violating the constitution as either Johnson or the sainted John F. Kennedy.

[dbpman]

In Lincoln's case, I believe his violations of the constitution were generally for the good of the country. 

wow so you think that suppension of Habeas corpus for all citizens was needed and justified?  Especially considering that everyone prior to that including the supreme court and Congress knew that only the legislative branch had the right to do such a thing.  Thousands of civilians were rounded up and thrown into military forts and most of them were arrested  for just showing displeasure over how Lincoln was handling the war.  Prisoners were not being told why they were being arrested.  No investigation for crimes commited and no trials were ever held

Marshall law was declared and there was no Constitution.

What about the over-running and over-throwing of thousands of newspapers and other forms of press that may not have supported the south but questioned Lincoln's actions?  do you think the First Amendment only applies if we all agree?

We all know today how big an effect the press has on us today... the same thing can be said back then


What about Sherman's march to the sea?... killing, raping, stealing and burning all that stands in his path.  Sherman wasnt alone.. there were other Generals doing the same thing.  That was definitely good for the country as well...right???  Lincoln knew it was going on...he may even have given the order to do so

The arrest warrents for Chief Justice Taney who stood up to Lincoln and told him his actions were totally 100% unconstitutional... luckily or unluckily the Chief Justice died before he could be arrested.

The arrest and deportation of a member of Congress.

The creation and over stepping of the economic system at the time by creating inflated fiat money "green backs" .  Issued by then Secretary of the Treasury Chase so that Lincoln could bypass both Congress and the banks to finance his crusade.  Later as Chief Justice Chase, he declared the green backs that he made Lincoln issue as unconstitutional... for the first time in 80 years the US currency had money that was slightly inflated.

Created the first income tax... also unconstitutional and was later after the war deemed as such.

He overtook the free election of the state of Maryland and Delaware and replaced them with people of his own party.  Because Elections werent secret Lincoln ordered his troops to arrest anyone who held a colored ticket for one of the other guys and were prohibited from voting.

When a person usurps his powers even if meant for good... there will always be people who are after him who will one up their predecessor and do things not so good with them. 

Lincoln set the stage for all usurping of the Constitution we have today.

Lincoln saw powers in the Constitution that no other President before him saw. Not Jefferson, Polk,  not even Madison when Washington DC was being burned ever saw powers in the Constitution that Lincoln did.

Father Abraham is the true father of the Current United States.. the founding fathers of 1789 and the government  they created died when the South did.

Lincoln may or may not have been the worst.. thats debatable... but there is no denying that it started a chain reaction throughout the 20th Century of a larger central government. The people and the states are just pawns for the Federal government .  The complete opposite of what the founding fathers invisioned

[A18]

Nixon was like that to some degree, but contrary to popular perception, did not go as far in violating the constitution as either Johnson or the sainted John F. Kennedy.

What did Kennedy do?

[dazzleman]

Nixon was like that to some degree, but contrary to popular perception, did not go as far in violating the constitution as either Johnson or the sainted John F. Kennedy.

What did Kennedy do?

Things like use of the IRS and FBI against his political enemies.  He and Johnson did more of these things than Nixon did, though liberals were aghast at Nixon's practices and continue to revere Kennedy.

[A18]

So what did he with the IRS? Overcharge them?

[??????????]

In Lincoln's case, I believe his violations of the constitution were generally for the good of the country. 

wow so you think that suppension of Habeas corpus for all citizens was needed and justified?  Especially considering that everyone prior to that including the supreme court and Congress knew that only the legislative branch had the right to do such a thing.  Thousands of civilians were rounded up and thrown into military forts and most of them were arrested  for just showing displeasure over how Lincoln was handling the war.  Prisoners were not being told why they were being arrested.  No investigation for crimes commited and no trials were ever held

Marshall law was declared and there was no Constitution.

What about the over-running and over-throwing of thousands of newspapers and other forms of press that may not have supported the south but questioned Lincoln's actions?  do you think the First Amendment only applies if we all agree?

We all know today how big an effect the press has on us today... the same thing can be said back then


What about Sherman's march to the sea?... killing, raping, stealing and burning all that stands in his path.  Sherman wasnt alone.. there were other Generals doing the same thing.  That was definitely good for the country as well...right???  Lincoln knew it was going on...he may even have given the order to do so

The arrest warrents for Chief Justice Taney who stood up to Lincoln and told him his actions were totally 100% unconstitutional... luckily or unluckily the Chief Justice died before he could be arrested.

The arrest and deportation of a member of Congress.

The creation and over stepping of the economic system at the time by creating inflated fiat money "green backs" .  Issued by then Secretary of the Treasury Chase so that Lincoln could bypass both Congress and the banks to finance his crusade.  Later as Chief Justice Chase, he declared the green backs that he made Lincoln issue as unconstitutional... for the first time in 80 years the US currency had money that was slightly inflated.

Created the first income tax... also unconstitutional and was later after the war deemed as such.

He overtook the free election of the state of Maryland and Delaware and replaced them with people of his own party.  Because Elections werent secret Lincoln ordered his troops to arrest anyone who held a colored ticket for one of the other guys and were prohibited from voting.

When a person usurps his powers even if meant for good... there will always be people who are after him who will one up their predecessor and do things not so good with them. 

Lincoln set the stage for all usurping of the Constitution we have today.

Lincoln saw powers in the Constitution that no other President before him saw. Not Jefferson, Polk,  not even Madison when Washington DC was being burned ever saw powers in the Constitution that Lincoln did.

Father Abraham is the true father of the Current United States.. the founding fathers of 1789 and the government  they created died when the South did.

Lincoln may or may not have been the worst.. thats debatable... but there is no denying that it started a chain reaction throughout the 20th Century of a larger central government. The people and the states are just pawns for the Federal government .  The complete opposite of what the founding fathers invisioned

Finally, someone hit the nail on the head about that tyrant.

[dazzleman]

In Lincoln's case, I believe his violations of the constitution were generally for the good of the country. 

wow so you think that suppension of Habeas corpus for all citizens was needed and justified?  Especially considering that everyone prior to that including the supreme court and Congress knew that only the legislative branch had the right to do such a thing.  Thousands of civilians were rounded up and thrown into military forts and most of them were arrested  for just showing displeasure over how Lincoln was handling the war.  Prisoners were not being told why they were being arrested.  No investigation for crimes commited and no trials were ever held

Marshall law was declared and there was no Constitution.

What about the over-running and over-throwing of thousands of newspapers and other forms of press that may not have supported the south but questioned Lincoln's actions?  do you think the First Amendment only applies if we all agree?

We all know today how big an effect the press has on us today... the same thing can be said back then


What about Sherman's march to the sea?... killing, raping, stealing and burning all that stands in his path.  Sherman wasnt alone.. there were other Generals doing the same thing.  That was definitely good for the country as well...right???  Lincoln knew it was going on...he may even have given the order to do so

The arrest warrents for Chief Justice Taney who stood up to Lincoln and told him his actions were totally 100% unconstitutional... luckily or unluckily the Chief Justice died before he could be arrested.

The arrest and deportation of a member of Congress.

The creation and over stepping of the economic system at the time by creating inflated fiat money "green backs" .  Issued by then Secretary of the Treasury Chase so that Lincoln could bypass both Congress and the banks to finance his crusade.  Later as Chief Justice Chase, he declared the green backs that he made Lincoln issue as unconstitutional... for the first time in 80 years the US currency had money that was slightly inflated.

Created the first income tax... also unconstitutional and was later after the war deemed as such.

He overtook the free election of the state of Maryland and Delaware and replaced them with people of his own party.  Because Elections werent secret Lincoln ordered his troops to arrest anyone who held a colored ticket for one of the other guys and were prohibited from voting.

When a person usurps his powers even if meant for good... there will always be people who are after him who will one up their predecessor and do things not so good with them. 

Lincoln set the stage for all usurping of the Constitution we have today.

Lincoln saw powers in the Constitution that no other President before him saw. Not Jefferson, Polk,  not even Madison when Washington DC was being burned ever saw powers in the Constitution that Lincoln did.

Father Abraham is the true father of the Current United States.. the founding fathers of 1789 and the government  they created died when the South did.

Lincoln may or may not have been the worst.. thats debatable... but there is no denying that it started a chain reaction throughout the 20th Century of a larger central government. The people and the states are just pawns for the Federal government .  The complete opposite of what the founding fathers invisioned

Wow.  Those few words sure elicited a strong reaction from you!

Lincoln dealt with the gravest constitutional crisis in our history.  He had a choice - to let the south go or institute a deadly war to keep the union together by force, a somewhat dubious proposition.  He chose the latter.

Facing the possible military occupation of his own capital by rebels, with the devastating impact that would have on his efforts, he clearly undertook many extra legal activities to control opposition.  We can criticize now, but I wonder what we'd do today if we had a full-scale war on our own soil, and it was a civil war in which the "enemy" was not so easy to identify.

Lincoln accomplished what he set out to do, at a huge price.  The civil war changed the country forever, not in a completely positive way.  That I have no trouble acknowledging.  We have gotten away from the idea that the states form up the federal government, rather than the federal government considering the states to be administrative districts of its own jurisdiction.

But the cause of this is not all black and white.  As many here know, despite the fact that I am a life-long northeasterner, I have been a consistent defender of the south against northern elitism and pretense at superiority.  However, I must say that to the extent we are unhappy about the demise of the concept of state's rights, the south must bear some responsibility for that, because it used that concept as a defense of slavery and long-term oppression of blacks after the civil war.

I respect your opinion on Lincoln, but I respectfully disagree on the grounds that people who deal with seminal issues almost always have huge flaws in their approach, and it's unfair to look at things in isolation.