Can you be a pro-feminist sexist?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

people have on other forums called me a sexist before which I found amusing considering all my support for women's rights, and I found it kind of amusing here when josh called me a pig because of his relations with the religious right and their obviously not too progressive views on women.

So is it possible to be pro-feminist, supportive of women's rights, and still sexist?

[minionofmidas]

Probably any honest, male, pro-feminist has got what you can, if you wish, call a sexist side.

[J. J.]

Is it possible, sure.  Somebody could be supportive of feminist goal and feel that are superior based on sex.

Likewise, someone can believe in segregation and racial superiority and be Black. 

Ignorance knows no sexual or racial boundries.

[John Dibble]

Sure. What do you think the word 'hypocrite' was invented for?(not saying you are, just saying)

[angus]

So is it possible to be pro-feminist, supportive of women's rights, and still sexist?

?!?!?! 

of course.  WTF do you think a feminist is, if not a sexist?

same goes for masculinists.

dude, are you yanking our collective chain, or what?

[Gabu]

Absolutely.  I've seen tons of examples of female pro-feminists who were extremely sexist.

[TeePee4Prez]

Sure, I'm one!  Hey, I believe in women's rights in terms of choice and equality in the workplace.  However, I am an admitted pervert and I love the fact that there's birth control and abortion on demand available.  Keeps the women loose!

[Alcon]

Sure, I'm one!  Hey, I believe in women's rights in terms of choice and equality in the workplace.  However, I am an admitted pervert and I love the fact that there's birth control and abortion on demand available.  Keeps the women loose!

That's sick.

Of course you can be pro-feminist and sexist. That's what radical feminists are.

[Rob]

Yes.

[TeePee4Prez]

Sure, I'm one!  Hey, I believe in women's rights in terms of choice and equality in the workplace.  However, I am an admitted pervert and I love the fact that there's birth control and abortion on demand available.  Keeps the women loose!

That's sick.

Of course you can be pro-feminist and sexist. That's what radical feminists are.

Why do you hate me Alcon?

[Keystone Phil]

Sure, I'm one!  Hey, I believe in women's rights in terms of choice and equality in the workplace.  However, I am an admitted pervert and I love the fact that there's birth control and abortion on demand available.  Keeps the women loose!

That's sick.

Of course you can be pro-feminist and sexist. That's what radical feminists are.

Why do you hate me Alcon?

You're disgusting.

[Alcon]

Sure, I'm one!  Hey, I believe in women's rights in terms of choice and equality in the workplace.  However, I am an admitted pervert and I love the fact that there's birth control and abortion on demand available.  Keeps the women loose!

That's sick.

Of course you can be pro-feminist and sexist. That's what radical feminists are.

Why do you hate me Alcon?

I don't hate you. However, for someone who describes themselves as a feminist, that's sure - well -  a horribly backwards thing to say.

[DanielX]

Yes, of either sex and of either or both sexes (except women prejudiced against women, all combinations are possible among feminists).

[angus]

Sure, I'm one!  Hey, I believe in women's rights in terms of choice and equality in the workplace.  However, I am an admitted pervert and I love the fact that there's birth control and abortion on demand available.  Keeps the women loose!

I don't hate you man 

And I'd never accuse you of being a feminist.  seriously, unless you're one of those deluded yuppies who is actually convinced that women like men who are pussies, you don't want to be identified as a feminist.

peace.

[dazzleman]

Yes, in two ways.

First off, almost every normal guy is a sexist in the traditional sense - i.e., believing deep down that men are superior to women.  Few men go around saying it out loud in mixed company today, but most men believe that men are superior to women.  Period.  This includes men who support equal rights for women, and other less controversial aspects of the early feminist agenda.

That's the way it's supposed to be, just as women believe that they are superior to men.  There's nothing wrong with that as long as it is not taken to an extreme.  Pride in one's gender is a healthy thing, and should not be sacrificed for a nefarious political agenda.

Some self-hating men adopt extreme feminism and become sexists in favor of women, saying that women are smarter, more compassionate, etc.  This is also sexism, though it is not recognized as such by the feminists.  Feminism has become female chauvinism, and the women's groups at this point are bordering on being hate groups that advocate discrimination against certain classes of people.

[nclib]

Yes - one could believe in equal rights for women, but still treat them as inferior.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I actually was referring only to men here, that's why I said pro-feminist instead of feminist.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

In all fairness though, I have to say yes because this actually fits opebo pretty well.

opebo is all for women's rights now, but the way he actually views and treats them isn't exactly...well you know.

[angus]

I actually was referring only to men here, that's why I said pro-feminist instead of feminist.

a man-feminist is the worst kind of feminist.  a female feminist is simply a bigot (or, in some cases, a dyke, which I consider a slightly higher species than a hetero-female-bitch-feminist), but a male feminist is among the lowest, deluded, self-hating, pussy-starved geek in the known universe.  In fact, I am not entirely convinced such a being actually exists.  You might call me an agnostic with respect to the whole concept of a man-feminist.  (this particular being should in no way be confused with the effiminate man, who is, is my book, a respectable being deserving of equity and humanity, or with the homosexual man, who, in everyone's book hopefully, is just a man who happens to be into men in that special way.)

opebo is a special case, and should not be lumped in with any of the aforementioned categories.  opebo is also to be accorded respect and deference (the whoremongering and antichristian bigotry notwithstanding.)

[TeePee4Prez]

Sure, I'm one!  Hey, I believe in women's rights in terms of choice and equality in the workplace.  However, I am an admitted pervert and I love the fact that there's birth control and abortion on demand available.  Keeps the women loose!

That's sick.

Of course you can be pro-feminist and sexist. That's what radical feminists are.

Why do you hate me Alcon?

I don't hate you. However, for someone who describes themselves as a feminist, that's sure - well -  a horribly backwards thing to say.

Well, I said I'm pro-feminist.  Sure I support them, but I'm not going to attend their rallies and I don't like the man-hating aspect of it at all. 

[dazzleman]

I actually was referring only to men here, that's why I said pro-feminist instead of feminist.

a man-feminist is the worst kind of feminist.  a female feminist is simply a bigot (or, in some cases, a dyke, which I consider a slightly higher species than a hetero-female-bitch-feminist), but a male feminist is among the lowest, deluded, self-hating, pussy-starved geek in the known universe. 

Very true.  And they don't realize that the people whose favor they curry will never like men.  For these people, it doesn't matter how a man behaves.  The sausage and meatballs he has are reason enough to hate him, regardless of how much he panders to them.  Man-haters are not a lot of fun for guys to hang around with, anyway.

[angus]

Man-haters are not a lot of fun for guys to hang around with, anyway.

I can assure you that they're none too popular with real women either.  I've had a number of platonic female roomates and a sister and a mother and a wife and well-adjusted significant others, none of whom have had anything other than disgust and disdain for the species known as "feminist"  Sure, there must be some small minority of women who actually are, and admire other, feminists, but that's a small group indeed. 

[dazzleman]

Man-haters are not a lot of fun for guys to hang around with, anyway.

I can assure you that they're none too popular with real women either.  I've had a number of platonic female roomates and a sister and a mother and a wife and well-adjusted significant others, none of whom have had anything other than disgust and disdain for the species known as "feminist"  Sure, there must be some small minority of women who actually are, and admire other, feminists, but that's a small group indeed. 

I have also found that to be true with respect to radical feminists, but I have found that many women have unwittingly adopted some of the tenets of feminism without really thinking too much about it.

When challenged, they will often realize the absurdity of it, and back away from the position.  Maybe this is why feminists and other hate groups are so intent on stifling opinions other than their own.

[angus]

got carried away for a moment.  appreciate your letting me clean the last post up before quoting. 

yeah, that's about right.  I'm what you'd call a classic egalitarian, with respect to race, gender, sexual orientation.  And it's precisely the way I was raised (yes, I always bitch about my liberal Democrat parents, but I praise and respect their egalitarianism, in all seriousness) that I cannot stomach the concept of "feminism" or "affirmative action" 

I knew a man named German Moreno (columbian, pronounced Hermaaan, and very "liberal") who taught Spanish at a school where I worked in the mid-nineties.  He was pretty old, and a big-time supporter of racial equality, even to the point of being a supporter of affirmative action (I don't hold that against him, and I consider him a true role model).  He had a great joke about modern separatist blacks (e.g., wanting special treatment) which touched on the frustration of HIS generation of washington-marchers with the modern hip-hoppers.  I can't remember it exactly, but the punch line had to do with What do they want now?  "Now we want separate drinking fountains."  It was apparently a frustration among minorities who actually grew up with segregation (I'm certainly not old enough to remember any of that, though I am getting pretty old) that they had done all this work in the name of equal treatment, only to raise a generation of selfish children who were hell-bent on special recognition.  Somewhere MLK was turning over in his grave at the thought of "Black History Month" sort of thing. 

Anyway, I suspect that there is a generation of sixty-something women who shudder at the thought of special, separatist treatment.  I can't get inside their heads, but I think I have a general understanding of why they'd recoil from the word "feminism" (or even "masculinism" if it were as popular).  You get the point.

[A18]

Of course. Most probably are.