Romney is a failure...and Ryan is not happy

[BigSkyBob]

A number of posters in this thread have been punked. They have so filtered objective reality through their political biases that they could not notice an obvious satire.

The article is on to something, however. Since Watergate, every Republican candidate running on a conservative platform [Reagan, Bush I 1998, and Bush II 2000] has won, and, every Republican candidate running as a moderate, or running on a moderate record has lost, with the sole exception of Bush II in 2004 whom had the good fortune of Osama Bin Laden endorsing his opponent just before the election. If Romney pursues a moderate strategy, he will suffer the fate as every other moderate. If that is the case, some folks in the Republican party had better step forward and speak up for conservatism.

[5280]

A number of posters in this thread have been punked. They have so filtered objective reality through their political biases that they could not notice an obvious satire.

The article is on to something, however. Since Watergate, every Republican candidate running on a conservative platform [Reagan, Bush I 1998, and Bush II 2000] has won, and, every Republican candidate running as a moderate, or running on a moderate record has lost, with the sole exception of Bush II in 2004 whom had the good fortune of Osama Bin Laden endorsing his opponent just before the election. If Romney pursues a moderate strategy, he will suffer the fate as every other moderate. If that is the case, some folks in the Republican party had better step forward and speak up for conservatism.

Not trying to bad mouth conservatism or even liberalism, but the country is too polarized on both sides of the aisle. The country lacks unity and something for the common good.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

...Bush/Cheney 2004 was 'moderate'? Dole/Kemp 1996 was not 'conservative'?

Politico, the fact that it was possible for any of us to believe this indicates at least as much about the Romney campaign as it does about 'the left' being 'tone-deaf'.

[Brittain33]

Bush 2000 won by running as a moderate Republican. Who has forgotten "compassionate conservatism," "don't balance the budget on the backs of the poor," and the Republican Party's collective effort to stash the Tea Party wing of the time (Tom DeLay, Rick Santorum) in the attic?

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

Bush 2000 won by running as a moderate Republican. Who has forgotten "compassionate conservatism," "don't balance the budget on the backs of the poor," and the Republican Party's collective effort to stash the Tea Party wing of the time (Tom DeLay, Rick Santorum) in the attic?

Yeah, Bush was perceived as much more conservative (or right-wing, since like most of the American right he wasn't really doing a whole hell of a lot of 'conserving') around the middle of his presidency than he was at the beginning or the end of it. Rightfully so, in a lot of ways.

[Politico]

A number of posters in this thread have been punked. They have so filtered objective reality through their political biases that they could not notice an obvious satire.

The article is on to something, however. Since Watergate, every Republican candidate running on a conservative platform [Reagan, Bush I 1998, and Bush II 2000] has won, and, every Republican candidate running as a moderate, or running on a moderate record has lost, with the sole exception of Bush II in 2004 whom had the good fortune of Osama Bin Laden endorsing his opponent just before the election. If Romney pursues a moderate strategy, he will suffer the fate as every other moderate. If that is the case, some folks in the Republican party had better step forward and speak up for conservatism.

Bush ran in 2000 on "compassionate conservatism," which was a far more watered-down version of conservatism than Romney has been forced to pursue thanks to Gingrich and Santorum. The campaign originally wanted to emulate that rhetoric, but Gingrich/Santorum forced them into a corner. We both want the same thing, but I warned you months ago about the implications of Gingrich/Santorum specifically with regards to female voters. Don't pull the "Romney's not conservative enough" card because he is running to the right of  every presidential contender since Reagan (with the possible exception of Bush in 2004)

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

A number of posters in this thread have been punked. They have so filtered objective reality through their political biases that they could not notice an obvious satire.

The article is on to something, however. Since Watergate, every Republican candidate running on a conservative platform [Reagan, Bush I 1998, and Bush II 2000] has won, and, every Republican candidate running as a moderate, or running on a moderate record has lost, with the sole exception of Bush II in 2004 whom had the good fortune of Osama Bin Laden endorsing his opponent just before the election. If Romney pursues a moderate strategy, he will suffer the fate as every other moderate. If that is the case, some folks in the Republican party had better step forward and speak up for conservatism.

Bush ran in 2000 on "compassionate conservatism," which was a far more watered-down version of conservatism than Romney has been forced to pursue thanks to Gingrich and Santorum. The campaign originally wanted to emulate that rhetoric, but Gingrich/Santorum forced them into a corner. We both want the same thing, but I warned you months ago about the implications of Gingrich/Santorum specifically with regards to female voters. Don't pull the "Romney's not conservative enough" card because he is running to the right of  every presidential contender since Reagan (with the possible exception of Bush in 2004)

This...is...more or less entirely correct.

I need to go lie down and write for a little while.

[Simfan34]

Is Politico... explaining why Romney isn't doing well?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

A number of posters in this thread have been punked. They have so filtered objective reality through their political biases that they could not notice an obvious satire.

The article is on to something, however. Since Watergate, every Republican candidate running on a conservative platform [Reagan, Bush I 1998, and Bush II 2000] has won, and, every Republican candidate running as a moderate, or running on a moderate record has lost, with the sole exception of Bush II in 2004 whom had the good fortune of Osama Bin Laden endorsing his opponent just before the election. If Romney pursues a moderate strategy, he will suffer the fate as every other moderate. If that is the case, some folks in the Republican party had better step forward and speak up for conservatism.

I'm sure potential Democratic nominees for 2016 hope the Republicans are thinking the same thing.

[Stranger in a strange land]

A number of posters in this thread have been punked. They have so filtered objective reality through their political biases that they could not notice an obvious satire.

The article is on to something, however. Since Watergate, every Republican candidate running on a conservative platform [Reagan, Bush I 1998, and Bush II 2000] has won, and, every Republican candidate running as a moderate, or running on a moderate record has lost, with the sole exception of Bush II in 2004 whom had the good fortune of Osama Bin Laden endorsing his opponent just before the election. If Romney pursues a moderate strategy, he will suffer the fate as every other moderate. If that is the case, some folks in the Republican party had better step forward and speak up for conservatism.

I was really hoping Santorum would get nominated this year and then lose by 15 points in the general, just so we would never have to hear this argument again, but alas, it was not to be.

[Cory]

So just to make sure, Ryan in fact did not refer to Romney as "stench"?

[Wisconsin+17]

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Which is why he became the 'most hated president in America?' Come off it. He was a conservative. Liberals hated him with the passion of a thousand suns.

[ajb]

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Which is why he became the 'most hated president in America?' Come off it. He was a conservative. Liberals hated him with the passion of a thousand suns.

We did indeed grow to hate Bush with considerable passion. But I remember in 2000, not exactly being taken in by "compassionate conservatism," but at least having some hope that Bush would govern with some restraint, and consoling myself with that thought after Bush v. Gore.
Of course, those hopes were quickly dashed. But they did exist to begin with.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

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Which is why he became the 'most hated president in America?' Come off it. He was a conservative. Liberals hated him with the passion of a thousand suns.

He ran as distinctly more moderate than other recent Republican nominees, at least rhetorically.

[Politico]

So just to make sure, Ryan in fact did not refer to Romney as "stench"?

The whole thing is satire. The fact that some of you still do not realize this is hilarious.

If Ryan were anything but ultra committed to the ticket, Romney would personally ensure he loses his Congressional race in 2014 (playing the same type of shadow role that Kerry played in Hillary's defeat in 2008, which was payback for the Clintons' games in late 2004 such as not holding off on releasing Bubba's autobiography until after the election).

[Politico]

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Which is why he became the 'most hated president in America?' Come off it. He was a conservative. Liberals hated him with the passion of a thousand suns.

You're confusing Bush 2000 with Bush 2004. Big mistake.

There's a reason why turnout was so depressed in 2000, and why Nader stole so many votes from Gore. Hint: Triangulation from both sides had a lot to do with it, especially with regards to rhetoric.

[Brittain33]

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Which is why he became the 'most hated president in America?' Come off it. He was a conservative. Liberals hated him with the passion of a thousand suns.

You said that people have to run as a conservative to get elected. George W. Bush went explicitly in the other direction for his 2000 campaign. Then 9/11 happened and he was able to make the war appeal, but look at his accomplishments: NCLB or Medicare Part D.

Liberals hated him in 2000 for a bunch of reasons, but one of them was anger at the conservative Republicans in Congress in the 1990s and that they were getting away with the congenial frontman for their policies.

[Badger]

So just to make sure, Ryan in fact did not refer to Romney as "stench"?

The author's afterward indicates the article was satire.

Which is, of course, precisely what Politico magazine is known for.

[Stranger in a strange land]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Which is why he became the 'most hated president in America?' Come off it. He was a conservative. Liberals hated him with the passion of a thousand suns.

You said that people have to run as a conservative to get elected. George W. Bush went explicitly in the other direction for his 2000 campaign. Then 9/11 happened and he was able to make the war appeal, but look at his accomplishments: NCLB or Medicare Part D.

Liberals hated him in 2000 for a bunch of reasons, but one of them was anger at the conservative Republicans in Congress in the 1990s and that they were getting away with the congenial frontman for their policies.

Speaking of which, I'm pretty much certain that had he somehow managed to get elected, Bob Dole would have governed in a more conservative manner than George W. Bush did.

And let's not forget, Bush and Gore BOTH ran as moderates in 2000. At least in his first term, Bush governed far to the right of what he had run as.

[BigSkyBob]

...Bush/Cheney 2004 was 'moderate'? Dole/Kemp 1996 was not 'conservative'?

No Child Left Behind, the Prescription drug law, "comprehensive immigration reform." The list goes on. But, if I am wrong, then every Republican running on a conservative platform, or conservative record has won, while every Republican running on a moderate platform, or moderate record has lost.

Dole was a Democrat whom wanted to run for office, so switched parties decades ago. Dole triangulated himself between Clinton and the Republican House after 1994. I'm curious as to why you would think he was "conservative?"

[BigSkyBob]

A number of posters in this thread have been punked. They have so filtered objective reality through their political biases that they could not notice an obvious satire.

The article is on to something, however. Since Watergate, every Republican candidate running on a conservative platform [Reagan, Bush I 1998, and Bush II 2000] has won, and, every Republican candidate running as a moderate, or running on a moderate record has lost, with the sole exception of Bush II in 2004 whom had the good fortune of Osama Bin Laden endorsing his opponent just before the election. If Romney pursues a moderate strategy, he will suffer the fate as every other moderate. If that is the case, some folks in the Republican party had better step forward and speak up for conservatism.

Not trying to bad mouth conservatism or even liberalism, but the country is too polarized on both sides of the aisle. The country lacks unity and something for the common good.

Unless, of course, the "common good" is best served by either liberalism or conservatism.

[BigSkyBob]

A number of posters in this thread have been punked. They have so filtered objective reality through their political biases that they could not notice an obvious satire.

The article is on to something, however. Since Watergate, every Republican candidate running on a conservative platform [Reagan, Bush I 1998, and Bush II 2000] has won, and, every Republican candidate running as a moderate, or running on a moderate record has lost, with the sole exception of Bush II in 2004 whom had the good fortune of Osama Bin Laden endorsing his opponent just before the election. If Romney pursues a moderate strategy, he will suffer the fate as every other moderate. If that is the case, some folks in the Republican party had better step forward and speak up for conservatism.

I was really hoping Santorum would get nominated this year and then lose by 15 points in the general, just so we would never have to hear this argument again, but alas, it was not to be.

Nor, would have been the case if Santorum had won the nomination.

[Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.]

...Bush/Cheney 2004 was 'moderate'? Dole/Kemp 1996 was not 'conservative'?

No Child Left Behind, the Prescription drug law, "comprehensive immigration reform." The list goes on. But, if I am wrong, then every Republican running on a conservative platform, or conservative record has won, while every Republican running on a moderate platform, or moderate record has lost.

No, that's the case if you're right. If you're wrong and I'm right, then the only Republican Presidential candidate who's been rhetorically much more moderate than any of the others since Reagan is 2000 Bush. Remember, we're discussing the ways in which people run for President, not their positions on purity tests. Nobody in 2004 thought of Bush as a 'moderate' except lunatics, whereas a lot of people in 2000 did.

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The...the same is true of Rick Perry and Strom Thurmond among others, you know. Also, I see you haven't taken my advice to read up on how pronouns work.

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Hmm, maybe because he was a tough-on-crime 'Nam hawk, voted against Medicare in the sixties and claimed that there was 'no crisis in health care' in the nineties, was known for being able to interact well and remain on good terms with most factions of the party (which is and was not a centrist party), used Russell Kirk rhetoric in his acceptance speech, picked Jack Kemp as his running mate...? If that's not enough to be a 'conservative', even if not as conservative as some other conservatives, I'm not sure what is, unless (as I seem to recall is actually the case) you're the type who views 'conservatism' as a very specific checklist on a wide range of issues.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

A number of posters in this thread have been punked. They have so filtered objective reality through their political biases that they could not notice an obvious satire.

The article is on to something, however. Since Watergate, every Republican candidate running on a conservative platform [Reagan, Bush I 1998, and Bush II 2000] has won, and, every Republican candidate running as a moderate, or running on a moderate record has lost, with the sole exception of Bush II in 2004 whom had the good fortune of Osama Bin Laden endorsing his opponent just before the election. If Romney pursues a moderate strategy, he will suffer the fate as every other moderate. If that is the case, some folks in the Republican party had better step forward and speak up for conservatism.

Bush didn't win in 2000, and he was looking like a one-termer until he failed to prevent 9/11, and then milked it politically for all he could get out of it.

[Averroës Nix]

If we're debating 2000, it's definitely worth noting that McCain was running as the moderate alternative to Bush. (I don't remember the also-rans well, so I don't know if there ever was a plausible Republican nominee to the right of Bush.)

Either way, I'm not seeing a compelling explanation for recent elections that posits a causal link between Republicans running on more conservative rhetoric and success on election day.