Ralph Nader is unsurprisingly still a giant douchebag

[they don't love you like i love you]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/25/ralph-nader-says-obama-is-war-criminal-worse-than-george-bush_n_1914154.html

Oh and someone posted in this in the DU thread where everyone's ripping him to shreds now, shows how much of a joke and a tool he is: http://www.mediaite.com/online/ralph-goes-rogue-nader-gives-sarah-palin-props-for-populist-speech/

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Obama's not a war criminal in my opinion but he has been aggressive and Dubya-like in many ways.  He's certainly not the kumbaya President libs wanted.

[Spanish Moss]

While I do believe his mind has begun to slip him, I'd argue that he's not wrong in accusing Obama of being a war criminal, who is worse than Bush on that in certain aspects (such as drone plane bombings).

[memphis]

Obama's not a war criminal in my opinion but he has been aggressive and Dubya-like in many ways.  He's certainly not the kumbaya President libs wanted.

He's exactly the president I wanted and nothing like Bush Jr. Jrwas all about sending hundreds of thousands of ground troops in at great cost, both financial and human. Obama is like a surgeon, sending in high tech drones as needed and finally getting Osama bin Laden, in Pakistan, a place the GOP was too afraid to touch.

[Spanish Moss]

Obama's not a war criminal in my opinion but he has been aggressive and Dubya-like in many ways.  He's certainly not the kumbaya President libs wanted.

He's exactly the president I wanted and nothing like Bush Jr. Jrwas all about sending hundreds of thousands of ground troops in at great cost, both financial and human. Obama is like a surgeon, sending in high tech drones as needed and finally getting Osama bin Laden, in Pakistan, a place the GOP was too afraid to touch.

High tech drones which have killed tons of innocent individuals, including targets wrongly accused, also including at least one American citizen.

[© tweed]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/25/ralph-nader-says-obama-is-war-criminal-worse-than-george-bush_n_1914154.html

how is this even controversial?

[Spanish Moss]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/25/ralph-nader-says-obama-is-war-criminal-worse-than-george-bush_n_1914154.html

how is this even controversial?

Dunno, because it's pretty clear Obama is at very least a war criminal.

[© tweed]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/25/ralph-nader-says-obama-is-war-criminal-worse-than-george-bush_n_1914154.html

how is this even controversial?

Dunno, because it's pretty clear Obama is at very least a war criminal.

it's just what liberals do.  when it's "their guy" they're more than willing to excuse the most magnificent crimes.

[Spanish Moss]

it's just what liberals do.  when it's "their guy" they're more than willing to excuse the most magnificent crimes.

And that's what irritates me about the left in this country.  Wiretapping under Bush?  Everyone wigs out.  Practical evisceration of the 4th Amendment via the NDAA under Obama?  Weak justifications, or they look over it.

I seriously just don't get it.

[ingemann]

it's just what liberals do.  when it's "their guy" they're more than willing to excuse the most magnificent crimes.

And that's what irritates me about the left in this country.  Wiretapping under Bush?  Everyone wigs out.  Practical evisceration of the 4th Amendment via the NDAA under Obama?  Weak justifications, or they look over it.

I seriously just don't get it.

Personal I think it's quite simple; the election 2000 showed the price of ideological purity and the whole argument that "the lesser evil is still evil". It got people 8 years with George Bush's cronies, policies and wars.... and no matter how much a corporate stooge the left find him, he's still preferable to Bush. So yes they could play it up, but it would make them nothing more than useful idiots for GOP.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/25/ralph-nader-says-obama-is-war-criminal-worse-than-george-bush_n_1914154.html

how is this even controversial?

Dunno, because it's pretty clear Obama is at very least a war criminal.

it's just what liberals do.  when it's "their guy" they're more than willing to excuse the most magnificent crimes.

It's what our friend memphis just did.

[Spanish Moss]

it's just what liberals do.  when it's "their guy" they're more than willing to excuse the most magnificent crimes.

And that's what irritates me about the left in this country.  Wiretapping under Bush?  Everyone wigs out.  Practical evisceration of the 4th Amendment via the NDAA under Obama?  Weak justifications, or they look over it.

I seriously just don't get it.

Personal I think it's quite simple; the election 2000 showed the price of ideological purity and the whole argument that "the lesser evil is still evil". It got people 8 years with George Bush's cronies, policies and wars.... and no matter how much a corporate stooge the left find him, he's still preferable to Bush. So yes they could play it up, but it would make them nothing more than useful idiots for GOP.

So basically let the Democrats get worse and worse, without holding their feet to the fire, because it's politically convenient at that moment?

Honestly, I used to believe there must be a point where Democrats draw the line on their Presidential Candidate, but after NDAA - I seriously believe their candidate could be a proto-fascist, but as long as the Republicans pose someone further to the right, they'll continue to support them.

[Sbane]

I have to say I never found targeted drone strikes as being on the same level as an invasion. Since we don't get any cooperation from the Pakistanis, drone strikes are the best way to kill Al Qaeda targets hiding there.

[Spanish Moss]

I have to say I never found targeted drone strikes as being on the same level as an invasion. Since we don't get any cooperation from the Pakistanis, drone strikes are the best way to kill Al Qaeda targets hiding there.

As well as innocent people we think are worthy targets when they aren't.

[ingemann]

it's just what liberals do.  when it's "their guy" they're more than willing to excuse the most magnificent crimes.

And that's what irritates me about the left in this country.  Wiretapping under Bush?  Everyone wigs out.  Practical evisceration of the 4th Amendment via the NDAA under Obama?  Weak justifications, or they look over it.

I seriously just don't get it.

Personal I think it's quite simple; the election 2000 showed the price of ideological purity and the whole argument that "the lesser evil is still evil". It got people 8 years with George Bush's cronies, policies and wars.... and no matter how much a corporate stooge the left find him, he's still preferable to Bush. So yes they could play it up, but it would make them nothing more than useful idiots for GOP.

So basically let the Democrats get worse and worse, without holding their feet to the fire, because it's politically convenient at that moment?

Honestly, I used to believe there must be a point where Democrats draw the line on their Presidential Candidate, but after NDAA - I seriously believe their candidate could be a proto-fascist, but as long as the Republicans pose someone further to the right, they'll continue to support them.

Likely but I think people focus  the wrong places if the left want to change the Democratic Party, they shouldn't focus on the president, but on the states and the legislative branch. In blue states the left should try to push to the left, while it may mean some may be lost, the republicans who could win in such states, will have to be more moderate and that will mean that they will pull the Republicans to the left. It's the tactic which the far right have used to transform GOP.

[Sbane]

I have to say I never found targeted drone strikes as being on the same level as an invasion. Since we don't get any cooperation from the Pakistanis, drone strikes are the best way to kill Al Qaeda targets hiding there.

As well as innocent people we think are worthy targets when they aren't.

Yes, that needs to be mitigated. I don't know what the statistics are on the percentage of time we have the wrong target, but if it is too high, we should require better intelligence before we use our drones. In any case, getting them on the ground would be the best option. If only the Pakistanis would stop double crossing us. Bin Laden could have easily been captured by Pakistani authorities since he was living in an affluent suburb of the capital, but Obama had to send in Seal team 6 because there was no way we could have trusted them. Obama made the right move there.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

BRTD will be surprised to hear this but I reckon Nader jumped the shark a loonnngggg time ago... he needs to retire from whatever the hell he actually does now.

[Donerail]

I find it strange that the only people I'm agreeing with entirely in this thread are both I-NY.

[Vosem]

I love the idea that recent U.S. presidents are war criminals. It's very cute and I'm sure y'all will win many elections running on that.

[Landslide Lyndon]

Who the heck is Ralph Nader?

[Grumpier Than Thou]

I find it strange that the only people I'm agreeing with entirely in this thread are both I-NY.

[Atlas Has Shrugged]

I find it strange that the only people I'm agreeing with entirely in this thread are both I-NY.

[Mechaman]

I find it strange that the only people I'm agreeing with entirely in this thread are both I-NY.

[Zioneer]

I find it strange that the only people I'm agreeing with entirely in this thread are both I-NY.

[angus]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/25/ralph-nader-says-obama-is-war-criminal-worse-than-george-bush_n_1914154.html

Oh and someone posted in this in the DU thread where everyone's ripping him to shreds now, shows how much of a joke and a tool he is: http://www.mediaite.com/online/ralph-goes-rogue-nader-gives-sarah-palin-props-for-populist-speech/

I'm sure that we have no trouble imagining that an experienced lawyer who has dedicated his life to consumer activism and who has testified before congress on multiple occasions is shaking in his boots at the thought of being ripped to shreds by the intellectual giants who live in their parents' basements and populate DU.