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Author Topic: anybody here up for the idea of a pro-israel third party.  (Read 1070 times)
freepcrusher
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« on: September 27, 2012, 02:15:15 pm »
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One thing I've found worrying about the democratic party is its increasing antisemitism. You have people like Gus Savage or Jesse Jackson making incredibly anti Semitic comments and the recognition of Israel taken out of the platform. As I've said earlier, I'm worried about the clients taking over the party. Why do they have to act like a bunch of ingrates? Do they not know that american Jews have played a crucial role in liberal victories such as the civil rights act or the right to choose?

So the idea is that pro-Israel but otherwise liberal democrats (like a Lieberman or Koch type) should form a third party. Such a party I think would be viable and could win over a lot of guilty evangelical Christians that normally vote republican.
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« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2012, 02:21:11 pm »
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Not likely to happen.
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« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2012, 04:35:36 pm »
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ain't two enough?
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« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2012, 04:40:59 pm »
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ain't two enough?
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SJoyce
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2012, 05:49:38 pm »
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« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2012, 06:04:38 pm »
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One thing I've found worrying about the democratic party is its increasing antisemitism. You have people like Gus Savage or Jesse Jackson making incredibly anti Semitic comments and the recognition of Israel taken out of the platform. As I've said earlier, I'm worried about the clients taking over the party. Why do they have to act like a bunch of ingrates? Do they not know that american Jews have played a crucial role in liberal victories such as the civil rights act or the right to choose?

So the idea is that pro-Israel but otherwise liberal democrats (like a Lieberman or Koch type) should form a third party. Such a party I think would be viable and could win over a lot of guilty evangelical Christians that normally vote republican.

I don't know about the specific comments to which you are referring, so I can't comment directly on those.  However - be careful with your analysis, while the staunch right wing Israeli party Likud and their crony lobbyists in Washington would have you believe otherwise - being anti-Israel/anti-Zionism DOES NOT inherently equate to anti-Jew.

I abhor the state (NOT the people) of Israel, and am staunchly anti-Zionism, much like these groups of individuals:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ (Jews against Zionism)
http://www.nkusa.org/ (Neturei Karta, another Jewish, anti-Zionism organization)

Actually, one of the many reasons I'm against Zionism is because I believe it is very bad for the Jewish community, in terms of how the Zionist movement has created antagonisms between Muslims and Jews which didn't previously exist (during the inquisition, the Muslims were the only friends they had!).  I'm no holocaust denier, I hate fascism, neo-nazism, and any form of ethnocentrism or racism, I'm extremely concerned for the welfare of Jewish individuals, and am vehemently opposed and disgusted by antisemitism.  

That being said, I just recognize that the existence of that state has created far more problems than solutions, and that the right wing government of Israel is guilty of crimes against humanity.

But if I go out in public and say I'm against the Israeli government, or particularly if I were a notable person, I'd get RAILED for hating Jews - when the OPPOSITE is true!  I'm just wondering if those comments they made are the kind I would make, rather than anti-Jewish comments.  My distaste for Israel is a distaste for a certain state apparatus.  NOT for Jews, in ANY sense.  I support the movements in Israel for peace and those Israelis which comprise of that movement, just as I support the Palestinian peace movement (and equally abhor terrorism as a response to Israel's war crimes).

And really, there's no need for a pro-Israeli third party.  Likud has Washington in their back pocket, and the overwhelming majority of elected officials in both parties are Zionist.  To call for a Zionist third party would be like calling for a third party that exists for the sole purpose of being *for* the War on Drugs.  It's not needed, the political currency is already overwhelmingly there.
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realisticidealist
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« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2012, 06:07:51 pm »
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« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2012, 06:09:03 pm »
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Oh god, concern trolls
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« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2012, 06:09:21 pm »
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« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2012, 06:35:38 pm »
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« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2012, 06:45:44 pm »
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« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2012, 07:01:42 pm »
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Oh god, concern trolls
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That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
The Mikado
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« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2012, 07:02:45 pm »
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A third pro-Israel Party?  I'd settle for one party that actually a reasonable approach to Palestine.
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« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2012, 07:05:53 pm »
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Let's just cut out all the middle men and inaugurate Bibi while we are at it.
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« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2012, 07:14:25 pm »
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No. K? Thx.
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Less-Progressivism, More Realism
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« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2012, 07:17:38 pm »
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ain't two enough?

Apparently not.

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Ready 4 Reform.
Senator Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2012, 07:34:45 pm »
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« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2012, 07:38:36 pm »
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It would be nice to have a pro-Israel third party in the sense that it would be nice to have a party that corresponds exactly to my political beliefs, but the Democrats are not becoming more anti-Semitic (or more anti-Israel, for that matter) and if they were considering political realities folks like the ones you mentioned would be slowly joining the GOP, not forming a third party which would crash and burn. (I notice that while you mention Lieberman and Koch, you didn't mention the many, many pro-Zionists that remain in the Democratic Party).

I don't know about the specific comments to which you are referring, so I can't comment directly on those.  However - be careful with your analysis, while the staunch right wing Israeli party Likud and their crony lobbyists in Washington would have you believe otherwise - being anti-Israel/anti-Zionism DOES NOT inherently equate to anti-Jew.

I've had a similar conversation with FallenMorgan -- while I don't deny that you're not anti-Semitic, and that anti-Zionism does not necessarily equal anti-Semitism, it's still important for you to understand that the two of them are inextricably linked, particularly in the Arab World where they go hand in hand, but also in the Western World where they are frequently linked, and that it's very difficult to actively support one of the two and not at least provide succor to the other.

I abhor the state (NOT the people) of Israel, and am staunchly anti-Zionism, much like these groups of individuals:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ (Jews against Zionism)
http://www.nkusa.org/ (Neturei Karta, another Jewish, anti-Zionism organization)

Doesn't say much; ask Ettore Ovazza or Lucas Mangope (though obviously those are extreme examples). The vast majority of Jews support Israel (obviously).

Actually, one of the many reasons I'm against Zionism is because I believe it is very bad for the Jewish community, in terms of how the Zionist movement has created antagonisms between Muslims and Jews which didn't previously exist (during the inquisition, the Muslims were the only friends they had!).

Well, Zionism has given Jews a homeland where they actually constitute a majority; their alternative was remaining in areas where anti-Semitic sentiment ran high. I would also argue Arab nationalism is far more responsible than Zionism for creating antagonisms, but that's all history; it's over and finished with and the main characters are all sleeping in their graves...

 I'm no holocaust denier, I hate fascism, neo-nazism, and any form of ethnocentrism or racism, I'm extremely concerned for the welfare of Jewish individuals, and am vehemently opposed and disgusted by antisemitism.

Good.  

That being said, I just recognize that the existence of that state has created far more problems than solutions, and that the right wing government of Israel is guilty of crimes against humanity.

This, on the other hand, is debatable at best.

But if I go out in public and say I'm against the Israeli government, or particularly if I were a notable person, I'd get RAILED for hating Jews - when the OPPOSITE is true!

Because many (I want to say a majority, but I don't know where I'd find actual statistical evidence, so I won't) notable anti-Zionists are anti-Semites, obviously doing so would bring suspicion of anti-Semitism on you.

Likud has Washington in their back pocket

Wouldn't we have recognized East Jerusalem as being part of Israel (at the very least) if this were true?
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Ray Goldfield
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« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2012, 09:46:54 pm »
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I'd settle for a centrist party that would likely be pro-Israel like the vast majority of people in this country.

As a socially liberal, economically conservative Hawk, it's a lonely day in politics.
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King
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« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2012, 10:05:22 pm »
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OP actually has a good idea folks.  A pro-Israel Christian left third party would be a good way to bring social conservatives toward the center economically and end the whole "voting against self interest" thing in poor rural areas.  It would end the Republican party from using wedge issues to force gridlock and allow moderates and libertarians to thrive in that party.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 10:08:00 pm by King »Logged

CultureKing
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« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2012, 11:00:42 pm »
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« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2012, 11:32:01 pm »
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MaxQue
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« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2012, 12:36:41 am »
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Marokai Besieged
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« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2012, 12:40:19 am »
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Anti-semites, all of you!
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Ghost_white
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« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2012, 12:55:26 am »
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I'd settle for a centrist party that would likely be pro-Israel like the vast majority of people in this country.

As a socially liberal, economically conservative Hawk, it's a lonely day in politics.
i'll just leave this here
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/millman/the-democrats-are-tom-friedmans-conservative-party/
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That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
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