Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 30, 2015, 04:25:46 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Don't forget to get your 2013 Gubernatorial Endorsements and Predictions in!

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: True Federalist, Former Moderate, Badger)
| | |-+  anybody here up for the idea of a pro-israel third party.
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Print
Author Topic: anybody here up for the idea of a pro-israel third party.  (Read 1657 times)
freepcrusher
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2428
United States


View Profile
« on: September 27, 2012, 02:15:15 pm »
Ignore

One thing I've found worrying about the democratic party is its increasing antisemitism. You have people like Gus Savage or Jesse Jackson making incredibly anti Semitic comments and the recognition of Israel taken out of the platform. As I've said earlier, I'm worried about the clients taking over the party. Why do they have to act like a bunch of ingrates? Do they not know that american Jews have played a crucial role in liberal victories such as the civil rights act or the right to choose?

So the idea is that pro-Israel but otherwise liberal democrats (like a Lieberman or Koch type) should form a third party. Such a party I think would be viable and could win over a lot of guilty evangelical Christians that normally vote republican.
Logged

-1.38, -1.38
R2D2
20RP12
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 24681
Sweden


Political Matrix
E: -7.74, S: -7.83

View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2012, 02:21:11 pm »
Ignore

Not likely to happen.
Logged


Reaction from ISIS:

Oh Crap

Reaction from JCL:

Tea Party in the hizzau
shua
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12924
Nepal


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2012, 04:35:36 pm »
Ignore

ain't two enough?
Logged

Franzl
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 22410
Germany


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2012, 04:40:59 pm »
Ignore

ain't two enough?
Logged
SJoyce
sjoycefla
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9159
United States


Political Matrix
E: -3.81, S: -9.30

View Profile
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2012, 05:49:38 pm »
Ignore

Logged

Spanish Moss
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 401
United States


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2012, 06:04:38 pm »
Ignore

One thing I've found worrying about the democratic party is its increasing antisemitism. You have people like Gus Savage or Jesse Jackson making incredibly anti Semitic comments and the recognition of Israel taken out of the platform. As I've said earlier, I'm worried about the clients taking over the party. Why do they have to act like a bunch of ingrates? Do they not know that american Jews have played a crucial role in liberal victories such as the civil rights act or the right to choose?

So the idea is that pro-Israel but otherwise liberal democrats (like a Lieberman or Koch type) should form a third party. Such a party I think would be viable and could win over a lot of guilty evangelical Christians that normally vote republican.

I don't know about the specific comments to which you are referring, so I can't comment directly on those.  However - be careful with your analysis, while the staunch right wing Israeli party Likud and their crony lobbyists in Washington would have you believe otherwise - being anti-Israel/anti-Zionism DOES NOT inherently equate to anti-Jew.

I abhor the state (NOT the people) of Israel, and am staunchly anti-Zionism, much like these groups of individuals:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ (Jews against Zionism)
http://www.nkusa.org/ (Neturei Karta, another Jewish, anti-Zionism organization)

Actually, one of the many reasons I'm against Zionism is because I believe it is very bad for the Jewish community, in terms of how the Zionist movement has created antagonisms between Muslims and Jews which didn't previously exist (during the inquisition, the Muslims were the only friends they had!).  I'm no holocaust denier, I hate fascism, neo-nazism, and any form of ethnocentrism or racism, I'm extremely concerned for the welfare of Jewish individuals, and am vehemently opposed and disgusted by antisemitism.  

That being said, I just recognize that the existence of that state has created far more problems than solutions, and that the right wing government of Israel is guilty of crimes against humanity.

But if I go out in public and say I'm against the Israeli government, or particularly if I were a notable person, I'd get RAILED for hating Jews - when the OPPOSITE is true!  I'm just wondering if those comments they made are the kind I would make, rather than anti-Jewish comments.  My distaste for Israel is a distaste for a certain state apparatus.  NOT for Jews, in ANY sense.  I support the movements in Israel for peace and those Israelis which comprise of that movement, just as I support the Palestinian peace movement (and equally abhor terrorism as a response to Israel's war crimes).

And really, there's no need for a pro-Israeli third party.  Likud has Washington in their back pocket, and the overwhelming majority of elected officials in both parties are Zionist.  To call for a Zionist third party would be like calling for a third party that exists for the sole purpose of being *for* the War on Drugs.  It's not needed, the political currency is already overwhelmingly there.
Logged
realisticidealist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6917
Vatican City State


Political Matrix
E: -0.13, S: 4.52

View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2012, 06:07:51 pm »
Ignore

Logged

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return."
Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 11979
Ireland, Republic of


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2012, 06:09:03 pm »
Ignore

Oh god, concern trolls
Logged



Quote
Keith R Laws ‏@Keith_Laws  Feb 4
As I have noted before 'paradigm shift' is an anagram of 'grasp dim faith'
Phony Moderate
Obamaisdabest
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8642
United States


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2012, 06:09:21 pm »
Ignore

Logged
○∙◄☻tπ[╪AV┼cV└
jfern
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 33002


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2012, 06:35:38 pm »
Ignore

Logged
Napoleon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 15396


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2012, 06:45:44 pm »
Ignore

Logged

Yeah, after four years of being a non-disruptive poster on the forum, never considered a troublemaker, even someone who was liked well enough to be elected Atlasian President, Napoleon should be allowed to stay.


i think i know where elvis lives
Ghost_white
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3800


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2012, 07:01:42 pm »
Ignore

Oh god, concern trolls
Logged


That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
The Mikado
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14808


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2012, 07:02:45 pm »
Ignore

A third pro-Israel Party?  I'd settle for one party that actually a reasonable approach to Palestine.
Logged

Snowstalker   mikado is content with only questions
23:03   Snowstalker   questions never helped anyone
23:03   Snowstalker   only answers
patrick1
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7842


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2012, 07:05:53 pm »
Ignore

Let's just cut out all the middle men and inaugurate Bibi while we are at it.
Logged
Grumps
GM3PRP
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 35823
Iran, Islamic Republic of
View Profile
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2012, 07:14:25 pm »
Ignore

No. K? Thx.
Logged

Why are you attacking me and calling me childish when there's absolutely no concrete proof of that?  I have done NOTHING to be attacked and called a child.  So, stop it.  Immediately.

09-16-2014:

I am extremely smart and intelligent.  I have a darn good head on my shoulders.  I mostly make very good decisions.  I am not perfect, but I am not an idiot.

Roll Eyes
PR
Progressive Realist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5987
United States


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2012, 07:17:38 pm »
Ignore

ain't two enough?

Apparently not.

Logged
Acting Pope Urban IX
Alfred F. Jones
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9112
United States


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2012, 07:34:45 pm »
Ignore

Logged



There is a lot of humor to be mined from this as the mind of LBJ in the body of an 18 month old baby girl is quite hilarious.

19:08   oakvale   keep your furry horror out of here please

Alfred is the Atlasian equivalent of a malevolent deity.

Vosem
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6229
United States


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2012, 07:38:36 pm »
Ignore

It would be nice to have a pro-Israel third party in the sense that it would be nice to have a party that corresponds exactly to my political beliefs, but the Democrats are not becoming more anti-Semitic (or more anti-Israel, for that matter) and if they were considering political realities folks like the ones you mentioned would be slowly joining the GOP, not forming a third party which would crash and burn. (I notice that while you mention Lieberman and Koch, you didn't mention the many, many pro-Zionists that remain in the Democratic Party).

I don't know about the specific comments to which you are referring, so I can't comment directly on those.  However - be careful with your analysis, while the staunch right wing Israeli party Likud and their crony lobbyists in Washington would have you believe otherwise - being anti-Israel/anti-Zionism DOES NOT inherently equate to anti-Jew.

I've had a similar conversation with FallenMorgan -- while I don't deny that you're not anti-Semitic, and that anti-Zionism does not necessarily equal anti-Semitism, it's still important for you to understand that the two of them are inextricably linked, particularly in the Arab World where they go hand in hand, but also in the Western World where they are frequently linked, and that it's very difficult to actively support one of the two and not at least provide succor to the other.

I abhor the state (NOT the people) of Israel, and am staunchly anti-Zionism, much like these groups of individuals:

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/ (Jews against Zionism)
http://www.nkusa.org/ (Neturei Karta, another Jewish, anti-Zionism organization)

Doesn't say much; ask Ettore Ovazza or Lucas Mangope (though obviously those are extreme examples). The vast majority of Jews support Israel (obviously).

Actually, one of the many reasons I'm against Zionism is because I believe it is very bad for the Jewish community, in terms of how the Zionist movement has created antagonisms between Muslims and Jews which didn't previously exist (during the inquisition, the Muslims were the only friends they had!).

Well, Zionism has given Jews a homeland where they actually constitute a majority; their alternative was remaining in areas where anti-Semitic sentiment ran high. I would also argue Arab nationalism is far more responsible than Zionism for creating antagonisms, but that's all history; it's over and finished with and the main characters are all sleeping in their graves...

 I'm no holocaust denier, I hate fascism, neo-nazism, and any form of ethnocentrism or racism, I'm extremely concerned for the welfare of Jewish individuals, and am vehemently opposed and disgusted by antisemitism.

Good.  

That being said, I just recognize that the existence of that state has created far more problems than solutions, and that the right wing government of Israel is guilty of crimes against humanity.

This, on the other hand, is debatable at best.

But if I go out in public and say I'm against the Israeli government, or particularly if I were a notable person, I'd get RAILED for hating Jews - when the OPPOSITE is true!

Because many (I want to say a majority, but I don't know where I'd find actual statistical evidence, so I won't) notable anti-Zionists are anti-Semites, obviously doing so would bring suspicion of anti-Semitism on you.

Likud has Washington in their back pocket

Wouldn't we have recognized East Jerusalem as being part of Israel (at the very least) if this were true?
Logged

They should ban Russians from driving. Russians all drive like deranged lunatics who belong in a mental asylum to begin with.
Walker Republican
Ray Goldfield
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1338


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2012, 09:46:54 pm »
Ignore

I'd settle for a centrist party that would likely be pro-Israel like the vast majority of people in this country.

As a socially liberal, economically conservative Hawk, it's a lonely day in politics.
Logged
Monarch
intermoderate
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 27929
United States


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2012, 10:05:22 pm »
Ignore

OP actually has a good idea folks.  A pro-Israel Christian left third party would be a good way to bring social conservatives toward the center economically and end the whole "voting against self interest" thing in poor rural areas.  It would end the Republican party from using wedge issues to force gridlock and allow moderates and libertarians to thrive in that party.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 10:08:00 pm by King »Logged



I'm also opposed to people burning their family's paycheck
CultureKing
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3218
United States


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2012, 11:00:42 pm »
Ignore

Logged

Econ: -6.50, Social: -5.23
Scott
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 18589
United States
View Profile
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2012, 11:32:01 pm »
Ignore

Logged


Gabriel Cceres

"He who feeds you, controls you." -Thomas Sankara
MaxQue
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9357
Canada


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2012, 12:36:41 am »
Ignore

Logged
Marokai Besieged
Marokai Blue
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 17035
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39

P

View Profile
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2012, 12:40:19 am »
Ignore

Anti-semites, all of you!
Logged
i think i know where elvis lives
Ghost_white
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3800


View Profile
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2012, 12:55:26 am »
Ignore

I'd settle for a centrist party that would likely be pro-Israel like the vast majority of people in this country.

As a socially liberal, economically conservative Hawk, it's a lonely day in politics.
i'll just leave this here
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/millman/the-democrats-are-tom-friedmans-conservative-party/
Logged


That has got to be one of the most retarded proposals I have read on this forum.

Don't worry, I'm sure more will crop up shortly.
Pages: [1] 2 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines