Philosophical question...

[Nym90]

This is an oft-asked philosophical question. What matters more--what actually is, or what people believe to be true?

For example, if you could enter a virtual reality simulation of the world, in which the world was your own personal utopia (everything that you want to be true, would be) but was completely indistinguishable from reality in every way possible other than your own knowledge that it's not real (it would otherwise be completely impossible to tell that it wasn't real in literally every way) would you want to spend the rest of your life in it?

[TheWildCard]

For example, if you could enter a virtual reality simulation of the world, in which the world was your own personal utopia (everything that you want to be true, would be) but was completely indistinguishable from reality in every way possible other than your own knowledge that it's not real (it would otherwise be completely impossible to tell that it wasn't real in literally every way) would you want to spend the rest of your life in it?

No, I would not, life would not be as good if I controled every detail of it. Plus, part of the beauty of this actually living your life is that (for most of us at least) everything you have you worked hard for (or your parents worked hard for) in a virtual world everything would be handed to you, there would be no real accomplishment.

[Nym90]

For example, if you could enter a virtual reality simulation of the world, in which the world was your own personal utopia (everything that you want to be true, would be) but was completely indistinguishable from reality in every way possible other than your own knowledge that it's not real (it would otherwise be completely impossible to tell that it wasn't real in literally every way) would you want to spend the rest of your life in it?

No, I would not, life would not be as good if I controled every detail of it. Plus, part of the beauty of this actually living your life is that (for most of us at least) everything you have you worked hard for (or your parents worked hard for) in a virtual world everything would be handed to you, there would be no real accomplishment.

Well, since you would control everything, you could make it so that you didn't just get everything handed to you...if you want the sense of accomplishment, you could exercise the self-restraint and make yourself do things, or else just give yourself the feeling of satisfaction anyway....if you see my point. Since you control everything, you can change that too.

But yeah, I see your point, and I too like a challenge. The virtual reality simulation doesn't necessarily HAVE to be a perfect utopia in which you are a god, it can be anything, really. The main thing I'm trying to get at, is what is it about reality that makes it better than fantasy? Is it simply that we have more choices and there are more possibilities in the real world (that was the point of my simulation example, the simulation would be indistinguishable from "real life" and thus wouldn't restrict your possibilities any more than the real world does), or is there something more fundamental? Or is there no real difference, is perception all that really matters?

If everyone believes something to be true, does it really even matter whether it is true or not? This is where the very definition of "reality" becomes important...is there an objective real truth, or is it all really just perception? The whole "if a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?" quesiton. Obviously we can prove scientifically that it does still make a sound, but the real question is, if no one hears the sound, does it matter that it made a sound? Is the world any different than if it didn't make one? Since the perception of everyone in the world is that there was no sound, does it matter that there was one?

[TheWildCard]

For example, if you could enter a virtual reality simulation of the world, in which the world was your own personal utopia (everything that you want to be true, would be) but was completely indistinguishable from reality in every way possible other than your own knowledge that it's not real (it would otherwise be completely impossible to tell that it wasn't real in literally every way) would you want to spend the rest of your life in it?

No, I would not, life would not be as good if I controled every detail of it. Plus, part of the beauty of this actually living your life is that (for most of us at least) everything you have you worked hard for (or your parents worked hard for) in a virtual world everything would be handed to you, there would be no real accomplishment.

Well, since you would control everything, you could make it so that you didn't just get everything handed to you...if you want the sense of accomplishment, you could exercise the self-restraint and make yourself do things, or else just give yourself the feeling of satisfaction anyway....if you see my point. Since you control everything, you can change that too.

But yeah, I see your point, and I too like a challenge. The virtual reality simulation doesn't necessarily HAVE to be a perfect utopia in which you are a god, it can be anything, really. The main thing I'm trying to get at, is what is it about reality that makes it better than fantasy? Is it simply that we have more choices and there are more possibilities in the real world (that was the point of my simulation example, the simulation would be indistinguishable from "real life" and thus wouldn't restrict your possibilities any more than the real world does), or is there something more fundamental? Or is there no real difference, is perception all that really matters?

If everyone believes something to be true, does it really even matter whether it is true or not? This is where the very definition of "reality" becomes important...is there an objective real truth, or is it all really just perception? The whole "if a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?" quesiton. Obviously we can prove scientifically that it does still make a sound, but the real question is, if no one hears the sound, does it matter that it made a sound? Is the world any different than if it didn't make one? Since the perception of everyone in the world is that there was no sound, does it matter that there was one?

Okay let me start with the second paragraph... Its a game your accomplishments in a game are nothing to anyone else, there would be no real people to share your life with, your loved ones would not be there. True you "could" have this computer make copies of them but I have a sevre problem believing that somewhere in your heart it wouldn't bother you that they are all mere thoughts and fantasies of your own creation.

The last paragraph you ask a very interesting question. There is always "real truth" it cannot always be proven absolutely. Lets take for example on the day of June 1st 1989 did you wake up and get out of bed or did you just sleep through that day? More then likely you can't prove let alone even remember that day either way there is a truth. truth always matters more than perception in my book and on most issues truth can be found.

As the old saying goes "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set ye free"

[TheWildCard]

For example, if you could enter a virtual reality simulation of the world, in which the world was your own personal utopia (everything that you want to be true, would be) but was completely indistinguishable from reality in every way possible other than your own knowledge that it's not real (it would otherwise be completely impossible to tell that it wasn't real in literally every way) would you want to spend the rest of your life in it?

No, I would not, life would not be as good if I controled every detail of it. Plus, part of the beauty of this actually living your life is that (for most of us at least) everything you have you worked hard for (or your parents worked hard for) in a virtual world everything would be handed to you, there would be no real accomplishment.

Well, since you would control everything, you could make it so that you didn't just get everything handed to you...if you want the sense of accomplishment, you could exercise the self-restraint and make yourself do things, or else just give yourself the feeling of satisfaction anyway....if you see my point. Since you control everything, you can change that too.

But yeah, I see your point, and I too like a challenge. The virtual reality simulation doesn't necessarily HAVE to be a perfect utopia in which you are a god, it can be anything, really. The main thing I'm trying to get at, is what is it about reality that makes it better than fantasy? Is it simply that we have more choices and there are more possibilities in the real world (that was the point of my simulation example, the simulation would be indistinguishable from "real life" and thus wouldn't restrict your possibilities any more than the real world does), or is there something more fundamental? Or is there no real difference, is perception all that really matters?

If everyone believes something to be true, does it really even matter whether it is true or not? This is where the very definition of "reality" becomes important...is there an objective real truth, or is it all really just perception? The whole "if a tree falls in the forest, and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?" quesiton. Obviously we can prove scientifically that it does still make a sound, but the real question is, if no one hears the sound, does it matter that it made a sound? Is the world any different than if it didn't make one? Since the perception of everyone in the world is that there was no sound, does it matter that there was one?

Okay let me start with the second paragraph... Its a game your accomplishments in a game are nothing to anyone else, there would be no real people to share your life with, your loved ones would not be there. True you "could" have this computer make copies of them but I have a sevre problem believing that somewhere in your heart it wouldn't bother you that they are all mere thoughts and fantasies of your own creation.

The last paragraph you ask a very interesting question. There is always "real truth" it cannot always be proven absolutely. Lets take for example on the day of June 1st 1989 did you wake up and get out of bed or did you just sleep through that day? More then likely you can't prove let alone even remember that day either way there is a truth. truth always matters more than perception in my book and on most issues truth can be found.

As the old saying goes "Ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set ye free"

I should correct that last paragraoh a little bit. As with any argurments there are factual ones (i.e. Like whether the Patriots will beat the Eagles or not") and non-factual ones (Is Angelina Jolie better looking than Britney Spears) the latter one is always a matter of perception.

[Bono]

Well, since you have no way of knowing the ultimete real nature of things, perception is the most important.

[Nym90]

Yeah, I see what you mean, the knowledge that it's not real is something that can't just be put aside.

But here's an interesting one for you. I've played a computer game in which your entire life appears to be real to you, as normal, but then one day you are told that you are just a computer, and your entire life has been a simulation. So all of the people and places that you thought were real, actually aren't. The idea was that you had to be programmed to have a real life so that, even though you are a computer, you'd be able to understand the real world and learn from it as a person does, so that you can now go and save the world. In a case like that, I would think that the person would not be so willing to just accept that his whole life has been a sham and that he must now go save the "real" world even though it isn't his world. You would be more inclined to want to return to the world in which you lived, because as far as YOU were concerned, it was reality, and you wouldn't be so quick to believe the guy who was telling you that it wasn't. Even if you did believe him on an intellectual level, emotionally you would still be attached to the world you had lived in, because it would be completely real to you, and the "real" world would be the one that would seem fake.

[minionofmidas]

Reality is more important to understand. This includes understanding how perception works, and understanding how perception shapes reality at times.

[John Dibble]

The reality matters most. Reality ultimately affects perception, anyways. Ignoring reality and going with what you perceive is often a path to destruction.

As to the second question, I choose reality over a false paradise. In order to be truly happy, I believe one has to also know what pain is - the false utopia really wouldn't have that. Joy cannot exist without an antithesis. Pain is what makes happiness worth having. If I did not know what is bad in my life, how would I know what is good?

[David S]

This is an oft-asked philosophical question. What matters more--what actually is, or what people believe to be true?

For example, if you could enter a virtual reality simulation of the world, in which the world was your own personal utopia (everything that you want to be true, would be) but was completely indistinguishable from reality in every way possible other than your own knowledge that it's not real (it would otherwise be completely impossible to tell that it wasn't real in literally every way) would you want to spend the rest of your life in it?

My guess is that you would voluntarily leave virtual reality somewhere around dinner time. Virtual food just isn't all that filling.

[Hitchabrut]

I think that reality is more important. Nobody can perceive without reality.