SENATE BILL: Right Wages for the Right Regions Act (On the President's Desk)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Sponsor: Marokai Blue

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well even Marokai can produce one or two worthwhile things every once and a while. I would hate to see anything bad happen to this, so I would recommend postign why this is a good idea within the next 24 hours.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Simply put, I think my vote on the Living Wage Act was a mistake and that 12.00 is too high of a wage for each region as a minimum. I encourage the highest wages for as many people as possible, but I have serious concerns about the effects a 12.00 wage could have on business and job growth. 10.50 is a wage I support having as the national minimum, and is relatively generous, and so I think regions should probably be given the free choice of whether or not they would like to lower it anywhere down to 10.50 if they worry about their economies.

I'd enjoy Shua's imput, just as additional advice, on his thoughts on job and business growth since we implemented the 12.00 minimum.

I'd also be open to requiring the 12.00 wage for businesses that are a certain size, (like big chains who clearly have the capital to support large operations), but I really think regions should get the second opinion on the 12.00 minimum if they desire to. It was a bit of a misstep that I regret, frankly.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This is a small step in the direction I would like to see things go on these matters, so I support it.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

I think there should be some minimum wage exemptions for small businesses that can't afford it, but I don't see how large corporations like McDonalds are negatively impacted by it.  I will not support the bill in its current form.

I'm also a bit surprised at how Marokai is proposing all this right-wing legislation, but I digress.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I proposed two "right wing" bills out of a lot more than two. That's not really outrageous.

A 10.50 wage is still a very solid minimum, and this bill wouldn't lower the wage, merely allow regions to lower it back to the first increase of the Living Wage bill if they felt it would be good for their economies to do so. I just can't imagine a small business in the rural south is going to be able to afford many employees at a 12.00 minimum; you could argue that's a good thing ("development should go back to the cities where it belongs") but to nearly increase the minimum wage 50% from what it was before the Living Wage act just to now, feels like an incredible increase. Perhaps we can raise the minimum to 12.00 again in a few years, but businesses need time to adjust.

If you're only willing to vote in favor of the bill if it's amended for the 12.00 wage to only affect larger chains, I can settle for that.

[Bacon King]

While I'll be voting in favor of this bill, how would everyone feel about expanding Section 4 of the Living Wage Act to allow more/longer tax deductions for small firms in regions who don't reduce back from $12 (or at the very least, such assistance for firms who faced undue economic duress between when the new minimum came into effect in July and now).

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I'd enjoy Shua's imput, just as additional advice, on his thoughts on job and business growth since we implemented the 12.00 minimum.

My impression is that businesses saw it coming since the law was passed, and so since that point have scaled back on additional hiring until greater consumer demand appears.  The  changes since the implementation of the 12.00 minimum is that hours have been cut back further where possible, and there may be some discouragement of hiring for new start-ups, plus increases in consumer prices in some sectors. Large retailers can generally deal okay with the increase in labor costs without immediate disruption, but it's hurting their profits and expansion and thus their stock prices as well.
Down the road higher wages may feed higher demand, but not yet.

[Napoleon]

Well even Marokai can produce one or two worthwhile things every once and a while. I would hate to see anything bad happen to this, so I would recommend postign why this is a good idea within the next 24 hours.

Both you and Marokai felt the Living Wage Act was a "worthwhile thing"is not long ago.

I have a few concerns with this proposal. I do believe a never ending cycle of raising and lowering the minimum wage is more harmful to business in the medium-to-long term. This proposal will also somewhat "un-do" my tax cut on lower-income families. Minimum wage earners receiving a pay cut will not only have less money to feed their families; they will not be able to contribute that spending to the economy directly and quickly, and it isn't likely the CEOs and corporate execs that will be keeping that cash aren't likely to either. With the work week hours cuts, many are working fewer hours than previously. Reducing the minimum wage therefore has a larger proportional affect on available income for employees.

The economy is improving, the increase in jobs will continue to snowball, we're adding more and more each day. I don't know if this bill actually contributes to the improvement as its being marketed.

[Napoleon]

While I'll be voting in favor of this bill, how would everyone feel about expanding Section 4 of the Living Wage Act to allow more/longer tax deductions for small firms in regions who don't reduce back from $12 (or at the very least, such assistance for firms who faced undue economic duress between when the new minimum came into effect in July and now).

I am very much in support of an extension of the assistance provided via Section 4. One year is probably an acceptable duration at this point in the recovery. I would still like to be convinced on the minimum wage decrease.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Napoleon, I don't get what your point is. I am not going to use boilerplate for the 24 hour requriement, because that would get boring. Plus harrassing Marokai is fun.

As for this proposal it is not a rejection of the Living Wage Act, just a different approach that will be less damaging to the economy and job creation. It also provides flexibility to the regions regarding wage policy and the ability to go under $12 an hour if the job situation requires it in a particular region. I think it is a step in the right direction. We still have an adequate minimum and we aren't putting too much weight on labor costs and thus driving down employment.

[Franzl]

I think there should be some minimum wage exemptions for small businesses that can't afford it, but I don't see how large corporations like McDonalds are negatively impacted by it.  I will not support the bill in its current form.

I'm also a bit surprised at how Marokai is proposing all this right-wing legislation, but I digress.

I agree. (To the left of Marokai on something! Amazing )
An amendment regarding this should be introduced.

I will, however, support thos legislation whether or not it passes, as it is fundamentally a good idea.

[HagridOfTheDeep]

I think there should be some minimum wage exemptions for small businesses that can't afford it, but I don't see how large corporations like McDonalds are negatively impacted by it.  I will not support the bill in its current form.

I'm also a bit surprised at how Marokai is proposing all this right-wing legislation, but I digress.

I agree. (To the left of Marokai on something! Amazing )
An amendment regarding this should be introduced.

I will, however, support thos legislation whether or not it passes, as it is fundamentally a good idea.

I appreciate the sentiment of providing exemptions for small businesses, but I think the logistics are too complicated. If you have different-sized companies offering different minimum wages, wouldn't people be more likely to apply to a place like McDonald's (with the higher minimum wage) than to places like a small Ma-and-Pa diner? If we're to believe your assertion that big companies would not really be negatively impacted by the high minimum wage, we'd have to assume that hiring rates would remain steady. So now you've got a bunch of people who want to work at McDonald's instead of a small business. So in a sense, we'd almost be encouraging workers to participate in the McDonaldization of our economy.

I get that raising minimum wages would negatively impact small business... but as it stands, these companies have had time to adjust to the $12 standard. Lowering the wage across the board will help businesses grow and allow them to give their employees more advancement opportunities into higher wage categories.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Two-thirds of minimum wage workers already work for large corporations, so I don't think there will be a significant change in terms of business size linked to the proposal.

Also, I don't know if it changes anyone's opinion, but I thought this article was kind of interesting..

[HagridOfTheDeep]

Two-thirds of minimum wage workers already work for large corporations, so I don't think there will be a significant change in terms of business size linked to the proposal.

Also, I don't know if it changes anyone's opinion, but I thought this article was kind of interesting..

Only because people are at the point now where they'll take any job they can get. That could change if we ever get back to full employment. That's when you could actually small businesses needing workers that are busy at McDonald's.

I mean, obviously this isn't some huge terrible problem. But an uneven minimum wage just creates strange circumstances.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I think there should be some minimum wage exemptions for small businesses that can't afford it, but I don't see how large corporations like McDonalds are negatively impacted by it.  I will not support the bill in its current form.

I'm also a bit surprised at how Marokai is proposing all this right-wing legislation, but I digress.

I agree. (To the left of Marokai on something! Amazing )
An amendment regarding this should be introduced.

I will, however, support thos legislation whether or not it passes, as it is fundamentally a good idea.

I'm not a right winger. Really.

I'm willing to consider an amendment like this but I also don't think we should ensure people can live comfortable lives solely through a high minimum wage. It creates a larger burden on the entire economy when people can be taken care of through generous social programs more effectively and done in a more targeted manner which doesn't have nearly as much pressure on job growth. I strongly think we should lower the federal minimum back to 10.50 and consider other appropriate ways to reduce the cost of living for the lower and middle class as opposed to just raising and raising the minimum wage.

[Sbane]

I support lowering the minimum wage down and indexing it to inflation. I am conflicted about keeping it higher for large corporations. I think on the one hand it could improve the quality of people working at these places but it also puts them at a disadvantage as compared to small businesses. Though small businesses are at a disadvantage to begin with.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Scott, I can't look at the link now, but you say that 2/3rds of the minimum wage jobs are offered by big corporations, correct? Is that data not from the RL US? A place that has a substantially lower minimum wage and thus likely, the data would be flawed to use it as justification for something that should be done here, where the minimum wage is 80% higher (rough guess, I am too busy to figure out the exact percentage ).

2/3rds (or is this 3/4ths ) of all the jobs are created by small business and I doubt they are highering them all at $12+ wages. Most likely it is $8 to $10 in RL. Meaning they would all be offering these jobs at the minimum wage of $12, since that is lowest legal amount they can pay currently. I wouldn't be surprised if that 2/3rds of minimim wage jobs, has been flipped in Atlasia.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Yes, the data is from the US.  US numbers are often used to represent Atlasia's economic situations unless they're produced by the GM just because they're the best indicators.  I don't know of any GM-conceived data that disputes the statistic.  It's also worth noting that economists have struggled to link job loss with minimum wage laws as a direct cause.  My point remains that if anything, it's small businesses which should be excluded from minimum wage laws if they cannot afford it. (Though ironically, the link I provided is a list of small business owners calling for a higher minimum wage law.)   If we get back to full employment, than maybe the minimum wage standards can be reconsidered, but regardless, people are typically going to work for the business that's more generous in wages whether or not a minimum wage law is in place and McDonalds will remain popular among jobseekers because it can afford the higher wages whereas a smaller business cannot.

To spare myself from sounding like an idiot, I'm going to continue this discussion tomorrow.  I can't do math at this hour.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The effect of a higher minimum wage does suggest that there would be more jobs in larger, more established companies that are better equipped to deal with high labor costs, and there are some regulations that impact small businesses negatively. However, Atlasian policies redistribute a considerable amount of wealth to small businesses from large corporations.  I'd say small businesses are a comparable or slightly larger share of the market in Atlasia as in RL.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The effect of a higher minimum wage does suggest that there would be more jobs in larger, more established companies that are better equipped to deal with high labor costs, and there are some regulations that impact small businesses negatively. However, Atlasian policies redistribute a considerable amount of wealth to small businesses from large corporations.  I'd say small businesses are a comparable or slightly larger share of the market in Atlasia as in RL.

What about the proportion of minimum wage workers? Wouldn't it be higher for small business than in RL?

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

The effect of a higher minimum wage does suggest that there would be more jobs in larger, more established companies that are better equipped to deal with high labor costs, and there are some regulations that impact small businesses negatively. However, Atlasian policies redistribute a considerable amount of wealth to small businesses from large corporations.  I'd say small businesses are a comparable or slightly larger share of the market in Atlasia as in RL.

What about the proportion of minimum wage workers? Wouldn't it be higher for small business than in RL?

It could be a little - I'm assunimg it would largely follow the comparative size of the market. Do you have any other thoughts?

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The effect of a higher minimum wage does suggest that there would be more jobs in larger, more established companies that are better equipped to deal with high labor costs, and there are some regulations that impact small businesses negatively. However, Atlasian policies redistribute a considerable amount of wealth to small businesses from large corporations.  I'd say small businesses are a comparable or slightly larger share of the market in Atlasia as in RL.

What about the proportion of minimum wage workers? Wouldn't it be higher for small business than in RL?

It could be a little - I'm assunimg it would largely follow the comparative size of the market. Do you have any other thoughts?

Well as I said, since the minimum wage is so much higher then in the RL, it is likely that a lot of what about be higher than minimum wage jobs at $8, $9 and $10 dollars an hour would be caught up in that and thus included in a much large pool of minimum wage jobs at the new $12 minimum. The point was that 2/3rds of minimum wage earners work for large corporations in RL, but since the minimum wage is so much higher, my thoughts are that a lot of small businesses are higher than minimum wage in RL but not higher than $12 an hour and so it is probably likely that a much large proportion of minimum wage earners work for small biz in Atlasia than in RL.

[Napoleon]

I am still not hot on this bill but I would appreciate it if the Senate considers an amendment that guarantees tips and commissions do count toward an hourly wage minimum.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

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Is this text satisfactory? What does the bill sponsor think?