Hugo Chávez vs. Lech Wałęsa

[Leftbehind]

It's really rare to be able to pinpoint to one single moment where a poster can essentially jump the shark. Supporting Chavez is one of those.

Says the man who defends Pinochet!

Chavez.

[後援会]

It's really rare to be able to pinpoint to one single moment where a poster can essentially jump the shark. Supporting Chavez is one of those.

Says the man who defends Pinochet!

Chavez.

Well, I wouldn't vote for Pinochet over Lulu. Allende really was awful.

That being said, I could understand why a rational left-leaning person would vote for Chavez over Pinochet. Or Chavez over a generic Argentine dictator.

But if you're willing to support Chavez in the face of the actual opposition he faces (currently, from a center-left social democrat), your stance is foul, irrational, and crazy.

[Lief]

the actual opposition he faces (currently, from a center-left social democrat)

Hahahahaha that's adorable.

Lief is really Sean Penn in real life......don't tell anyone

I wish I were Sean Penn! Super rich and sex with Scarlett Johansson?

[President Marokai]

But if you're willing to support Chavez in the face of the actual opposition he faces (currently, from a center-left social democrat), your stance is foul, irrational, and crazy.

Oh Gosh, it's in only 6 days? Well, crossing fingers for Radonski. He might not be perfect, but at least he's not a megalomaniac populist clown with authoritarian tendencies.

I really like this subject. It's good for distinguishing who is simply very left-wing and who is simply crazy.

This is utterly ridiculous. I am no real radical, and I routinely criticize some of the lefties on this site for taking things too far, but get over yourself. Seriously. There is nothing objectively ridiculous about support Chavez against the (actual) opposition he faces, or recognizing the observable good he's done for Venezuela.

I'm perfectly content sometimes to sit back and let the more radical members of the site be criticized for supporting bad people. But this isn't one of those times. To see people unfairly characterized by people who Don't Get It just pisses me off.

[後援会]

This is utterly ridiculous. I am no real radical, and I routinely criticize some of the lefties on this site for taking things too far, but get over yourself. Seriously. There is nothing objectively ridiculous about support Chavez against the (actual) opposition he faces, or recognizing the observable good he's done for Venezuela.

I'm perfectly content sometimes to sit back and let the more radical members of the site be criticized for supporting bad people. But this isn't one of those times. To see people unfairly characterized by people who Don't Get It just pisses me off.

Gosh, if you're supposedly the rational mainstream left, I'd hate to see what the radical left is cheering for. Perhaps some anti-revisionist strand.

I really enjoy how you capitalize "Don't Get It", as if you were some illuminating observer describing a natural phenomena, to describe anyone who can't muster enough enthusiasm for your favorite thug of the week, whether it be pure laine racists or Chavista thugs.

[President Marokai]

This is utterly ridiculous. I am no real radical, and I routinely criticize some of the lefties on this site for taking things too far, but get over yourself. Seriously. There is nothing objectively ridiculous about support Chavez against the (actual) opposition he faces, or recognizing the observable good he's done for Venezuela.

I'm perfectly content sometimes to sit back and let the more radical members of the site be criticized for supporting bad people. But this isn't one of those times. To see people unfairly characterized by people who Don't Get It just pisses me off.

Gosh, if you're supposedly the rational mainstream left, I'd hate to see what the radical left is cheering for. Perhaps some anti-revisionist strand.

I support the non neoliberal left. There's nothing inherently radical about it. The thing is, I never suggested Chavez was part of the "rational, mainstream left" but merely that he was better than his opposition, that he is nowhere near as bad as the american media portrays him (which has an interest in portraying him as cartoonishly evil, when he is not), and has done enormous, empirical good for Venezuela.

This isn't a race between far leftist policies and reformist but solidly center leftist policies, if it was I would support the latter. This is a race between a far leftist and a party with a supposedly center leftist front man for otherwise right-wing, neoliberal policies, with the end goal of selling out the country to the Venezuelan elite and international business interests; it's not something you have to divine, it's what's happened.

This false dichotomy and attempt at portraying anyone who says anything good about Chavez as some sort of communist revolutionary is immature and gross. You don't get just-right, exactly-perfect-for-you political parties almost ever, and certainly not in South America. Some people occasionally have to make morally complex, less-bad-than-the-other-guy decisions when it comes to who they support. In the worldwide battle the left-wing has been quietly losing for the last 30+ years, Chavez, for the moment, is the best candidate in Venezuelan politics.

[I Am Damo Suzuki]

Well, I wouldn't vote for Pinochet over Lulu. Allende really was awful.

I have nothing to say if you don't share Allende's political views but comparisons between the deposed Chilean President and the Evil Dictator in terms of dignity or respect for the Human life are completely out of question. I consider that who kills people in a Football Stadium or that who tortures political prisoners at DINA dungeons is an Evil Dictator. Who's Lulu?

[I Can't Get That Sound You Make, Out Of My Head]

Walesa, obviously.

[opebo]

Chavez obviously.

[dead0man]

lief,tweed,seatown,julio,leftbehind,opebo, you guys play your roles to a fuking T.  Good job being more predictable than professional wrestling.

[© Tweed the Younger]

I hadn't yet posted in this thread, but thank you.

[dead0man]

Except that post of yours in this thread.

the concern for human rights violations and authoritarianism in Latin America tingles my heart.

Granted you didn't really pick, but we all know where your allegiances would lie.

[© Tweed the Younger]

good catch!

[Vote UKIP!]

Walesa, obviously.

[Leftbehind]

lief,tweed,seatown,julio,leftbehind,opebo, you guys play your roles to a fuking T.  Good job being more predictable than professional wrestling.

As do you my neoliberal American chauvinist.  Actually, tell a lie, such barefaced hypocrisy is slightly impressive.

[Vosem]

Koenkai has done really well in this thread...

[dead0man]

lief,tweed,seatown,julio,leftbehind,opebo, you guys play your roles to a fuking T.  Good job being more predictable than professional wrestling.

As do you my neoliberal American chauvinist.  Actually, tell a lie, such barefaced hypocrisy is slightly impressive.

I'm a neoliberal now?  That's a first.  Who do I need to bother to get my free coffee cup?

[Leftbehind]

lief,tweed,seatown,julio,leftbehind,opebo, you guys play your roles to a fuking T.  Good job being more predictable than professional wrestling.

As do you my neoliberal American chauvinist.  Actually, tell a lie, such barefaced hypocrisy is slightly impressive.

I'm a neoliberal now?  That's a first.  Who do I need to bother to get my free coffee cup?

Don't even know what you're going on about?

[Insula Dei]

You'd have to be stupid as bricks to actually believe that Chavez was a 'dictator'. I mean I can understand actively disliking him, or even thinking him slightly sleazy, but a dictator? You'd have to be a 14 year-old moronical incarnation of Evil itself (no offense Vosem) to think that Chavez is somehow comparable to Pinochet.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Walesa, easily.  He's a massive FF, and my motto is Anybody But Chavez.