Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
July 25, 2014, 10:00:48 am
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  Individual Politics (Moderators: Grad Students are the Worst, Torie, Sheriff Buford TX Justice)
| | |-+  Hugo Chávez vs. Lech Wałęsa
« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] Print
Poll
Question: Who would you support?
Hugo Chávez (PSUV-VE)
Lech Wałęsa (AWS-PL)
Show Pie Chart

Author Topic: Hugo Chávez vs. Lech Wałęsa  (Read 1006 times)
Acting like I'm Morrissey w/o the wit
Leftbehind
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3181
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2012, 12:42:35 pm »
Ignore

It's really rare to be able to pinpoint to one single moment where a poster can essentially jump the shark. Supporting Chavez is one of those.
Says the man who defends Pinochet!

Chavez.

Logged

後援会
koenkai
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1293


Political Matrix
E: 0.71, S: -2.52

View Profile
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2012, 03:38:41 pm »
Ignore

It's really rare to be able to pinpoint to one single moment where a poster can essentially jump the shark. Supporting Chavez is one of those.
Says the man who defends Pinochet!

Chavez.

Well, I wouldn't vote for Pinochet over Lulu. Allende really was awful.

That being said, I could understand why a rational left-leaning person would vote for Chavez over Pinochet. Or Chavez over a generic Argentine dictator.

But if you're willing to support Chavez in the face of the actual opposition he faces (currently, from a center-left social democrat), your stance is foul, irrational, and crazy.
Logged

The opinions and views expressed above are mine alone and do not represent the opinions or views of any other individual, organization, or government.
Herman Cain's Gold Chain
Lief
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31903
Dominica


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2012, 03:49:00 pm »
Ignore

the actual opposition he faces (currently, from a center-left social democrat)

Hahahahaha that's adorable.

Lief is really Sean Penn in real life......don't tell anyone Wink

I wish I were Sean Penn! Super rich and sex with Scarlett Johansson?
Logged



(Part of the 2012 Election Throwback Series)
Marokai Besieged
Marokai Blue
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16694
United States


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2012, 04:24:29 pm »
Ignore

But if you're willing to support Chavez in the face of the actual opposition he faces (currently, from a center-left social democrat), your stance is foul, irrational, and crazy.

Oh Gosh, it's in only 6 days? Well, crossing fingers for Radonski. He might not be perfect, but at least he's not a megalomaniac populist clown with authoritarian tendencies.

I really like this subject. It's good for distinguishing who is simply very left-wing and who is simply crazy.

This is utterly ridiculous. I am no real radical, and I routinely criticize some of the lefties on this site for taking things too far, but get over yourself. Seriously. There is nothing objectively ridiculous about support Chavez against the (actual) opposition he faces, or recognizing the observable good he's done for Venezuela.

I'm perfectly content sometimes to sit back and let the more radical members of the site be criticized for supporting bad people. But this isn't one of those times. To see people unfairly characterized by people who Don't Get It just pisses me off.
Logged

後援会
koenkai
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1293


Political Matrix
E: 0.71, S: -2.52

View Profile
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2012, 04:52:07 pm »
Ignore

This is utterly ridiculous. I am no real radical, and I routinely criticize some of the lefties on this site for taking things too far, but get over yourself. Seriously. There is nothing objectively ridiculous about support Chavez against the (actual) opposition he faces, or recognizing the observable good he's done for Venezuela.

I'm perfectly content sometimes to sit back and let the more radical members of the site be criticized for supporting bad people. But this isn't one of those times. To see people unfairly characterized by people who Don't Get It just pisses me off.

Gosh, if you're supposedly the rational mainstream left, I'd hate to see what the radical left is cheering for. Perhaps some anti-revisionist strand.

I really enjoy how you capitalize "Don't Get It", as if you were some illuminating observer describing a natural phenomena, to describe anyone who can't muster enough enthusiasm for your favorite thug of the week, whether it be pure laine racists or Chavista thugs.
Logged

The opinions and views expressed above are mine alone and do not represent the opinions or views of any other individual, organization, or government.
Marokai Besieged
Marokai Blue
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16694
United States


View Profile
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2012, 05:20:12 pm »
Ignore

This is utterly ridiculous. I am no real radical, and I routinely criticize some of the lefties on this site for taking things too far, but get over yourself. Seriously. There is nothing objectively ridiculous about support Chavez against the (actual) opposition he faces, or recognizing the observable good he's done for Venezuela.

I'm perfectly content sometimes to sit back and let the more radical members of the site be criticized for supporting bad people. But this isn't one of those times. To see people unfairly characterized by people who Don't Get It just pisses me off.

Gosh, if you're supposedly the rational mainstream left, I'd hate to see what the radical left is cheering for. Perhaps some anti-revisionist strand.

I support the non neoliberal left. There's nothing inherently radical about it. The thing is, I never suggested Chavez was part of the "rational, mainstream left" but merely that he was better than his opposition, that he is nowhere near as bad as the american media portrays him (which has an interest in portraying him as cartoonishly evil, when he is not), and has done enormous, empirical good for Venezuela.

This isn't a race between far leftist policies and reformist but solidly center leftist policies, if it was I would support the latter. This is a race between a far leftist and a party with a supposedly center leftist front man for otherwise right-wing, neoliberal policies, with the end goal of selling out the country to the Venezuelan elite and international business interests; it's not something you have to divine, it's what's happened.

This false dichotomy and attempt at portraying anyone who says anything good about Chavez as some sort of communist revolutionary is immature and gross. You don't get just-right, exactly-perfect-for-you political parties almost ever, and certainly not in South America. Some people occasionally have to make morally complex, less-bad-than-the-other-guy decisions when it comes to who they support. In the worldwide battle the left-wing has been quietly losing for the last 30+ years, Chavez, for the moment, is the best candidate in Venezuelan politics.
Logged

Velasco
andi
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1506
Western Sahara


View Profile WWW
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2012, 03:33:14 am »
Ignore


Well, I wouldn't vote for Pinochet over Lulu. Allende really was awful.


I have nothing to say if you don't share Allende's political views but comparisons between the deposed Chilean President and the Evil Dictator in terms of dignity or respect for the Human life are completely out of question. I consider that who kills people in a Football Stadium or that who tortures political prisoners at DINA dungeons is an Evil Dictator. Who's Lulu?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 03:37:05 am by Gobernador Velasco »Logged

morgieb
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5300
Australia


View Profile
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2012, 05:11:23 am »
Ignore

Logged
opebo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 47627


View Profile
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2012, 05:39:25 am »
Ignore

Chavez obviously.
Logged

The essence of democracy at its purest is a lynch mob

dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21535
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -4.52

View Profile
« Reply #34 on: October 04, 2012, 05:55:30 am »
Ignore

lief,tweed,seatown,julio,leftbehind,opebo, you guys play your roles to a fuking T.  Good job being more predictable than professional wrestling.
Logged

Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
Miamiu1027
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 35386
United States
View Profile
« Reply #35 on: October 04, 2012, 07:59:58 am »
Ignore

I hadn't yet posted in this thread, but thank you.
Logged
dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21535
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -4.52

View Profile
« Reply #36 on: October 04, 2012, 08:30:26 am »
Ignore

Except that post of yours in this thread.
the concern for human rights violations and authoritarianism in Latin America tingles my heart.
Granted you didn't really pick, but we all know where your allegiances would lie.
Logged

Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
Miamiu1027
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 35386
United States
View Profile
« Reply #37 on: October 04, 2012, 08:34:30 am »
Ignore

good catch!
Logged
Vote UKIP!
MasterSanders
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 1001
United States


View Profile
« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2012, 11:04:19 am »
Ignore

Logged

Acting like I'm Morrissey w/o the wit
Leftbehind
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3181
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2012, 08:53:18 pm »
Ignore

lief,tweed,seatown,julio,leftbehind,opebo, you guys play your roles to a fuking T.  Good job being more predictable than professional wrestling.

As do you my neoliberal American chauvinist.  Actually, tell a lie, such barefaced hypocrisy is slightly impressive.
Logged

Vosem
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 5047
United States


View Profile
« Reply #40 on: October 04, 2012, 09:34:41 pm »
Ignore

Koenkai has done really well in this thread...
Logged
dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21535
United States


Political Matrix
E: 6.84, S: -4.52

View Profile
« Reply #41 on: October 04, 2012, 09:36:27 pm »
Ignore

lief,tweed,seatown,julio,leftbehind,opebo, you guys play your roles to a fuking T.  Good job being more predictable than professional wrestling.

As do you my neoliberal American chauvinist.  Actually, tell a lie, such barefaced hypocrisy is slightly impressive.
I'm a neoliberal now?  That's a first.  Who do I need to bother to get my free coffee cup?
Logged

Quote from:   Martha Gellhorn for The Atlantic 1961
The unique misfortune of the Palestinian refugees is that they are a weapon in what seems to be a permanent war...today, in the Middle East, you get a repeated sinking sensation about the Palestinian refugees: they are only a beginning, not an end. Their function is to hang around and be constantly useful as a goad. The ultimate aim is not such humane small potatoes as repatriating refugees.
Acting like I'm Morrissey w/o the wit
Leftbehind
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3181
United Kingdom


View Profile
« Reply #42 on: October 04, 2012, 10:01:06 pm »
Ignore

lief,tweed,seatown,julio,leftbehind,opebo, you guys play your roles to a fuking T.  Good job being more predictable than professional wrestling.

As do you my neoliberal American chauvinist.  Actually, tell a lie, such barefaced hypocrisy is slightly impressive.
I'm a neoliberal now?  That's a first.  Who do I need to bother to get my free coffee cup?

Don't even know what you're going on about?
Logged

Insula Dei
belgiansocialist
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4259
Belgium


View Profile
« Reply #43 on: October 05, 2012, 07:14:09 am »
Ignore

You'd have to be stupid as bricks to actually believe that Chavez was a 'dictator'. I mean I can understand actively disliking him, or even thinking him slightly sleazy, but a dictator? You'd have to be a 14 year-old moronical incarnation of Evil itself (no offense Vosem) to think that Chavez is somehow comparable to Pinochet.
Logged

Oldiesfreak1854
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 8628
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.13, S: 1.91

P P P

View Profile WWW
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2012, 08:47:31 pm »
Ignore

Walesa, easily.  He's a massive FF, and my motto is Anybody But Chavez.
Logged

Quote from: Dwight D. Eisenhower
There is nothing wrong with America that the faith, love of freedom, intelligence, and energy of her citizens cannot cure.
Pages: 1 [2] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Logout

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines